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PCM.daily's 2010 DB Public Beta: Bug Reports
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| ravenation |
Posted on 21-01-2010 21:22
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Under 23
Posts: 55
Joined: 28-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
Yes I do.
But hondo argued against my "mexican amateurs" comment.
And that wasn't the race where he beat the mexican amateurs. That was his second race for Tecos, where he won the lottery short prologue but finished well back on GC when it counted.
It's kinda hard to make that into an argument for making Rasmussen better. It doesn't prove a damned thing.
He ended way back due to team tactics, as his team mate was in a break away. So i dont understand why PCM daily last year, gave Basso and Scarponi so high stats in the DB, if it does not count?
Anyhow the season will show who is right :-) I appreciate all the work you make with this DB. Great work! |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 27-11-2024 08:13
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Bot Agent
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| KenL |
Posted on 21-01-2010 23:17
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Stagiare
Posts: 226
Joined: 05-11-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Guys, at the end of the day, rider stats are not a db "bug". Use any editor and make your own stats.
I like Ras... and changed his stats to a pretty good mountain man but not so effective as a GC overall contender and thats that.
Moved on and tweaked breakaway stats so the game calls the rider names...
Fabulous DB, 100's of hours work greatly appreciated and can't wait for the final version with the real "Bugs" fixed. |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 21-01-2010 23:26
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Team Manager
Posts: 33046
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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ravenation wrote:
I think it is a mistake in the DB. He has been the only one together with Ricco beating Contador on a mountain finish for the last 2 years. Before that he took the polka dot jersey for several years and are former World Champion in Mountainbiking. Compare him with the other riders coming back from doping like Scarponi, Basso etc. His stats is a disgrace in my opinion.
This isnt a historical database - results from 2007 or earlier are of little relevance to stats in a 2010 db. Since coming back, Scarponi has won Tirreno-Adriatico - and Basso has taken 5th in the Giro and 4th in the Vuelta.
Rasmussen has done nothing, in comparison, so right now he deserves whatever stats he has been given in the db
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| ravenation |
Posted on 22-01-2010 05:50
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Under 23
Posts: 55
Joined: 28-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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SportingNonsense wrote:
ravenation wrote:
I think it is a mistake in the DB. He has been the only one together with Ricco beating Contador on a mountain finish for the last 2 years. Before that he took the polka dot jersey for several years and are former World Champion in Mountainbiking. Compare him with the other riders coming back from doping like Scarponi, Basso etc. His stats is a disgrace in my opinion.
This isnt a historical database - results from 2007 or earlier are of little relevance to stats in a 2010 db. Since coming back, Scarponi has won Tirreno-Adriatico - and Basso has taken 5th in the Giro and 4th in the Vuelta.
Rasmussen has done nothing, in comparison, so right now he deserves whatever stats he has been given in the db
I am talking about the PCMdaily DB for PCM 2008 before Basso and Scarponi came back and had won anything.
Anyhow i am changing his stats by myself. EOD. |
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| Maximka |
Posted on 22-01-2010 06:58
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Sprinter
Posts: 1902
Joined: 22-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Stats, stats... You know, My rider with 79MO just loosed the Giro to a guy with 72MO 
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 22-01-2010 09:42
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
MCSPantani wrote:
I've felt the same thing as hondo. Some 65 Mo guy climbing & smiling next to cadel. Is it possible that, by putting the stage "flat" every non-climber will get throw the mountains with a smile?
No, but there is a Hill/Mountain setting for each stage, and that's no doubt what's influencing. I haven't checked what it's set as, but given that it's a mountain stage with several major climbs it should definitely be set at 1.00
When you have these mountain stages that end with sprinters winning, you shouldn't set it to 1 as that will make it impossible for the sprinters to keep up. Let me quote PlakkerNL who has toyed with it more than I have:
Set the stage AI to flat stage=1, next set the mountainparameter (gene_f_mountain) to 0,5 - 1 (depending on the difficulty). Used 0.75 for the stage to St.Girons, resulting in a 109 riders pack sprinting, but the major sprinters with a little climbing skills (Freire, Bennati etc) just couldnt keep up and finished in a first grupetto. So will set that one to 0.5 to have them present. For the rest that stage was great with lot of attacks from semi-climbers and the GC-riders settling in a group with helpers for controll the race. No weidr attacks in the end of the stage (what happens when the AI is set to mountain)
The Tourmalet-stage could use 0.75 in the gene_f_mountain.
So, the hill/mountain ratio should perhaps be a little higher than what I have set it to, but setting it to 1 won't give the results that one would expect from stages like that.
About Michael Rasmussen - as it has already been stated, the guy's getting old. He's not who he was in 2007. If he proves us wrong, e.g. by doing good in San Luis, we'll just improve him for the V2. And until then, we have in no way 'locked' the DB from being edited. You're free to edit anything you want.
Concerning the equipment, I did consider a low-res version without the equipment. There's no chance it will be released at the same time as the 'full' V1, but it may come a couple of days later. Depends on my motivation and time. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 22-01-2010 09:53
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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CrueTrue wrote:
issoisso wrote:
MCSPantani wrote:
I've felt the same thing as hondo. Some 65 Mo guy climbing & smiling next to cadel. Is it possible that, by putting the stage "flat" every non-climber will get throw the mountains with a smile?
No, but there is a Hill/Mountain setting for each stage, and that's no doubt what's influencing. I haven't checked what it's set as, but given that it's a mountain stage with several major climbs it should definitely be set at 1.00
When you have these mountain stages that end with sprinters winning, you shouldn't set it to 1 as that will make it impossible for the sprinters to keep up. Let me quote PlakkerNL who has toyed with it more than I have:
Set the stage AI to flat stage=1, next set the mountainparameter (gene_f_mountain) to 0,5 - 1 (depending on the difficulty). Used 0.75 for the stage to St.Girons, resulting in a 109 riders pack sprinting, but the major sprinters with a little climbing skills (Freire, Bennati etc) just couldnt keep up and finished in a first grupetto. So will set that one to 0.5 to have them present. For the rest that stage was great with lot of attacks from semi-climbers and the GC-riders settling in a group with helpers for controll the race. No weidr attacks in the end of the stage (what happens when the AI is set to mountain)
The Tourmalet-stage could use 0.75 in the gene_f_mountain.
So, the hill/mountain ratio should perhaps be a little higher than what I have set it to, but setting it to 1 won't give the results that one would expect from stages like that.
About Michael Rasmussen - as it has already been stated, the guy's getting old. He's not who he was in 2007. If he proves us wrong, e.g. by doing good in San Luis, we'll just improve him for the V2. And until then, we have in no way 'locked' the DB from being edited. You're free to edit anything you want.
Concerning the equipment, I did consider a low-res version without the equipment. There's no chance it will be released at the same time as the 'full' V1, but it may come a couple of days later. Depends on my motivation and time.
You can't possibly believe Freire or Bennati will survive 4 major mountain passes in the group on that stage 
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 22-01-2010 10:25
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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Perhaps not that particular stage with 4 mountains, but there are several stages in the Giro, as far as I remember, where a setting like that is up to discussion. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 22-01-2010 11:32
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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But those I agree with
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| hondo |
Posted on 22-01-2010 13:17
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Free Agent
Posts: 123
Joined: 23-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
Yes I do.
But hondo argued against my "mexican amateurs" comment.
And that wasn't the race where he beat the mexican amateurs. That was his second race for Tecos, where he won the lottery short prologue but finished well back on GC when it counted.
It's kinda hard to make that into an argument for making Rasmussen better. It doesn't prove a damned thing.
So beating Juan Jose Cobo, Ezequiel Mosquera, José Iván Gutiérrez, Oscar Sevilla, Francisco Mancebo and Daniel Moreno in a extremely steep mountain proloque after 2 years without racing, doesn't prove anything?
Edited by hondo on 22-01-2010 13:23
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| bianchi16 |
Posted on 22-01-2010 14:10
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Amateur
Posts: 19
Joined: 03-10-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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It's not really a bug, but i think you should make Armstrong's decline age higher. Because atm it's 38, wich means his stats start dropping from the start of any carreer. And he himself claims he's gonna be even beter then last year. So I think we can trust the words of some1 who won the tour 7 times.
CrueTrue: I don't accept the premise, but sure, it's a bug, and it has now been fixed.
Edited by CrueTrue on 22-01-2010 21:29
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| kumazan |
Posted on 22-01-2010 14:12
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Team Leader
Posts: 6662
Joined: 02-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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hondo wrote:
So beating Juan Jose Cobo, Ezequiel Mosquera, José Iván Gutiérrez, Oscar Sevilla, Francisco Mancebo and Daniel Moreno in a extremely steep mountain proloque after 2 years without racing, doesn't prove anything?
Beating them, when they are not exactly in their best shape (except for Sevilla), and it's the most importante race of the year for Rasmussen, in a 4km long prologue with a less than 2km long climb, before losing more than 7 minutes with Óscar Sevilla in the GC, doesn't prove too much things actually. |
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 22-01-2010 14:14
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7891
Joined: 04-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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bianchi16 wrote:
It's not really a bug, but i think you should make Armstrong's decline age higher. Because atm it's 38, wich means his stats start dropping from the start of any carreer. And he himself claims he's gonna be even beter then last year. So I think we can trust the words of some1 who won the tour 7 times.
Well no, it's correct actually. Like it or not Armstrong is declining, the results say that and thats what stats are based on.
Example:
Sprinter 1 says: "I can beat Cavendish"
Oh, we better raise his stats then.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| issoisso |
Posted on 22-01-2010 14:14
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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hondo wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Yes I do.
But hondo argued against my "mexican amateurs" comment.
And that wasn't the race where he beat the mexican amateurs. That was his second race for Tecos, where he won the lottery short prologue but finished well back on GC when it counted.
It's kinda hard to make that into an argument for making Rasmussen better. It doesn't prove a damned thing.
So beating Juan Jose Cobo, Ezequiel Mosquera, José Iván Gutiérrez, Oscar Sevilla, Francisco Mancebo and Daniel Moreno in a extremely steep mountain proloque after 2 years without racing, doesn't prove anything?
They were at the end of a long season, pretty dead, in a race they couldn't really care much about, in a prologue. Chicken had been training solely for that day for a long time.
If that stage means so much, then why aren't you asking for Mancebo and Sevilla who have similar stats, to be increased? They beat Mosquera, Cobo and the others too! 
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| hondo |
Posted on 22-01-2010 14:36
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Free Agent
Posts: 123
Joined: 23-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
If that stage means so much, then why aren't you asking for Mancebo and Sevilla who have similar stats, to be increased? They beat Mosquera, Cobo and the others too!
Have Sevilla and Mancebo been out of racing for 2 years?
No.
Edited by hondo on 22-01-2010 14:40
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| bianchi16 |
Posted on 22-01-2010 14:38
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Amateur
Posts: 19
Joined: 03-10-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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doddy13 wrote:
bianchi16 wrote:
It's not really a bug, but i think you should make Armstrong's decline age higher. Because atm it's 38, wich means his stats start dropping from the start of any carreer. And he himself claims he's gonna be even beter then last year. So I think we can trust the words of some1 who won the tour 7 times.
Well no, it's correct actually. Like it or not Armstrong is declining, the results say that and thats what stats are based on.
Example:
Sprinter 1 says: "I can beat Cavendish"
Oh, we better raise his stats then.
I don't really agree. he might not be as good as in his best years, but he isn't worse then last year, atleast thats what he says. And i think we can trust the word of a 7 time tour winner over the word of "sprinter 1". i didn't say his stats are to low, but he certainly shouldn't start declining from the start of the season, maybe after the tour.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 22-01-2010 15:01
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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hondo wrote:
issoisso wrote:
If that stage means so much, then why aren't you asking for Mancebo and Sevilla who have similar stats, to be increased? They beat Mosquera, Cobo and the others too!
Have Sevilla and Mancebo been out of racing for 2 years?
No.
Are Mancebo and Sevilla older than dust (over 35)?
No.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ravenation |
Posted on 22-01-2010 15:12
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Under 23
Posts: 55
Joined: 28-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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bianchi16 wrote:
doddy13 wrote:
bianchi16 wrote:
It's not really a bug, but i think you should make Armstrong's decline age higher. Because atm it's 38, wich means his stats start dropping from the start of any carreer. And he himself claims he's gonna be even beter then last year. So I think we can trust the words of some1 who won the tour 7 times.
Well no, it's correct actually. Like it or not Armstrong is declining, the results say that and thats what stats are based on.
Example:
Sprinter 1 says: "I can beat Cavendish"
Oh, we better raise his stats then.
I don't really agree. he might not be as good as in his best years, but he isn't worse then last year, atleast thats what he says. And i think we can trust the word of a 7 time tour winner over the word of "sprinter 1". i didn't say his stats are to low, but he certainly shouldn't start declining from the start of the season, maybe after the tour.
I also agree with you about this. Armstrong schould not start losing his skills so fast. I dont believe he can beat Andy or Contador, but he can take a podium once again. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 22-01-2010 15:19
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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Please, stop the discussion about MR. Further posts will be deleted. It's not a bug, therefore it doesn't belong in this thread.
The decline thing IS a bug, though, and will be fixed. |
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| bianchi16 |
Posted on 22-01-2010 15:24
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Amateur
Posts: 19
Joined: 03-10-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Ok thats good to know.
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