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The Difficult Topics
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| kubys |
Posted on 05-03-2014 06:41
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Domestique
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Selwink wrote:
If you think about it: Hitler invaded Sudetenland trying to 'help the Germans'. Putin seems to be doing the exact same thing now. Back then the European reaction was a nein, now it also doesn't seem to go further than a njet.
Not that I'm scared of a new war, it's just something that came to mind
This was in fact accepted by foreign countries (France, USA,GB) in München in 1938. They throw us over the board to save their asses for a year...
So Hitler has taken Sudetenland under the international law.
West countries has given Ukraine false hopes of chance to be part of EU and now will abandon them again. Problem with Crimea is, that more than half of inhabitans are russians. So in fact, it is still more part of Russia, rather than Ukraine...
Yeah sure, I am just wondering who from USA was there on this tea party in München...
Also I don't agree about false hopes of being part of EU. They are obviously real, as far as Ukraine is part of EU policy of neighborhood. And also, when there is real chance, that Serbia and even Albania or FYROM have real chace of being part of EU, I can't see, why not Ukraine.
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| Selwink |
Posted on 05-03-2014 06:45
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I think that it's quite unrealistic to see Ukraine in the EU pretty soon. The EU has financial regulations which Ukraine doesn't reach by far. Ukraine is in huge debts, probably thanks to Yanukovich (and Tymoshenko?). Unless they get some sort of massive donation (no loan, that increases the national debt, which can't be too high in relation with the GDP) they won't reach the EU on the short term, I think.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 18:38
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| kubys |
Posted on 05-03-2014 06:49
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Domestique
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Lol come on, financial regulations. Can you tell me which countries are really complying with the Maastircht rules? Germany? Maybe, but that's only one state.
Also I didn't say that it will be in span of 5 years or so, but 10 years are really realistic. Also Ukraine is still to set an application for membership. They hadn't done it yet.
Die hard fan of Tom Boonen and Quickstep since 2004.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 05-03-2014 06:52
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kubys wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Selwink wrote:
If you think about it: Hitler invaded Sudetenland trying to 'help the Germans'. Putin seems to be doing the exact same thing now. Back then the European reaction was a nein, now it also doesn't seem to go further than a njet.
Not that I'm scared of a new war, it's just something that came to mind
This was in fact accepted by foreign countries (France, USA,GB) in München in 1938. They throw us over the board to save their asses for a year...
So Hitler has taken Sudetenland under the international law.
West countries has given Ukraine false hopes of chance to be part of EU and now will abandon them again. Problem with Crimea is, that more than half of inhabitans are russians. So in fact, it is still more part of Russia, rather than Ukraine...
Yeah sure, I am just wondering who from USA was there on this tea party in München...
Also I don't agree about false hopes of being part of EU. They are obviously real, as far as Ukraine is part of EU policy of neighborhood. And also, when there is real chance, that Serbia and even Albania or FYROM have real chace of being part of EU, I can't see, why not Ukraine.
Ouch, that was supposed to be Italy of course. 
And why not Ukraine? Because they are poor as hell (without Russia selling them gas for a half price and Crimea, it is rich as african state in Sahara). And we all could see what poor states in EU mean...
Fact that country wants to be in EU (or rather part of the country), does not mean it should have been part of it. Germany cant pay for whole union forever.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 05-03-2014 06:53
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| Selwink |
Posted on 05-03-2014 06:54
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I believe more and more countries are reaching the rules. Admittedly, there were many cuts etc., but afaik the Netherlands are complying as well. Besides, I think, the only reason countries like Greece are still in the EU is because the ECB is trying to hold its credibility. By admitting a previous prognosis was wrong, their image is worsened a lot. Therefore, sticking with this prognosis for them seemed best.
About those 10 years before applying. It may seem more realistic, but considering the huge debts Ukraine has I think even that's too early.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 05-03-2014 06:54
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The last additions to U.E. (Croatia, but mostly 10 countries in 2004) and the perspective of Turkey joining as well have increased euro-scepticism, so the trend is not really to add country but to have privileged partnerships with some countries.
Ukraine would never join the EU in the short term, let alone the euro-zone, but the process for one of those privileged partnerships was definitely on.
A couple of voices here have been defending Putin. Names are Le Pen and Mélenchon. Far right and far left politicians. Either because of their admirations for the greatness of one man (Mr Manhood Putin), or the greatness of former USSR, claiming that Ukraine cannot be parted from Russia. Fucktards. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 05-03-2014 06:58
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Well, you can hardly say that Putin is not big man. Fucking egoist retard too? Yes, but definitely a big man for country like Russia.
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| kubys |
Posted on 05-03-2014 06:59
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Ok, so you agree with Kosovo and Albania as potential candidate, but not with Ukraine?
Die hard fan of Tom Boonen and Quickstep since 2004.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 05-03-2014 07:04
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To be honest, i would stop including all countries that are around just because they are. Support democrasy there, give them economical benefits for trade with EU, but slow down growing of EU just for the lulz of it. That would be the case with Ukraine too. But there is a problem with so many factions and nations in Ukraine. That country is artifical and there will be always problems...
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| kubys |
Posted on 05-03-2014 07:05
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Domestique
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https://research.n...-criteria/
Well this article is 1,5 year old, I'll try to find newer data. As you can see only Dennmark fullfiled it.
Die hard fan of Tom Boonen and Quickstep since 2004.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 05-03-2014 07:06
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Well, you can hardly say that Putin is not big man. Fucking egoist retard too? Yes, but definitely a big man for country like Russia.
Yeah, he's manhood itself. I mean no one else would fight polar bears with bare hands in the ice.
NAh, my point is that the far right here defend him because they admire the authority of one single man over a totalitarian nation. Or in short they long for a dictatorship and think Putin's way is the one to go for. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 05-03-2014 07:08
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Case is , that i think that state like Russia could benefit more from some sort of dictatorship, rather than western style democrasy. Russia is just too different in every manner
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| Luis Leon Sanchez |
Posted on 05-03-2014 07:10
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Does anyone here support what Russia is doing or will do?
I highly doubt it.
Enough Said
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 05-03-2014 07:12
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
To be honest, i would stop including all countries that are around just because they are. Support democrasy there, give them economical benefits for trade with EU, but slow down growing of EU just for the lulz of it. That would be the case with Ukraine too. But there is a problem with so many factions and nations in Ukraine. That country is artifical and there will be always problems...
That's the difference between two viewpoints, mostly : the British way that wishes for more and more additions to enlarge the common market regardless of political reforms, human rights or anything else, and the German (& French) one that wishes for more and more integration but doesn't necessarily seek to add more countries.
Now on the different factions, I admit it's concerning, and that I don't really have an opinion. There are many separatisms here and there, even in good ol' Europe (Scotland, Catalunya, Corsica, etc. not sure whether I should add Bretons on this list ), but none of them has claimed they'd like to tie bonds with another superpower like Russia, so does this compare or not ? |
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| Selwink |
Posted on 05-03-2014 07:12
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Luis Leon Sanchez wrote:
Does anyone here support what Russia is doing or will do?
I highly doubt it.
Enough Said
Although I don't support either the current Russian actions or Putin himself, I do agree with Avin Russia isn't suitable for democracy. I think it's the same in the middle-east (countries like Egypt). When Mubarak was there, the country was still stable (although corrupt. That should be prevented with a dictator) and look how unstable it is now.
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| kubys |
Posted on 05-03-2014 07:12
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Domestique
Posts: 704
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Luis Leon Sanchez wrote:
Does anyone here support what Russia is doing or will do?
I highly doubt it.
Enough Said
To be honest? Actually they didn't break rules yet. They have agreement with Ukraine about max 11 000 soldiers on Crimea, while they have smthg about 7 000 atm. 
Die hard fan of Tom Boonen and Quickstep since 2004.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 05-03-2014 07:13
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Case is , that i think that state like Russia could benefit more from some sort of dictatorship, rather than western style democrasy. Russia is just too different in every manner
Define "benefit [for] Russia". Depending which way you do it, your statement will be right or wrong... |
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| kubys |
Posted on 05-03-2014 07:14
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Domestique
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Aquarius wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
To be honest, i would stop including all countries that are around just because they are. Support democrasy there, give them economical benefits for trade with EU, but slow down growing of EU just for the lulz of it. That would be the case with Ukraine too. But there is a problem with so many factions and nations in Ukraine. That country is artifical and there will be always problems...
That's the difference between two viewpoints, mostly : the British way that wishes for more and more additions to enlarge the common market regardless of political reforms, human rights or anything else, and the German (& French) one that wishes for more and more integration but doesn't necessarily seek to add more countries.
Now on the different factions, I admit it's concerning, and that I don't really have an opinion. There are many separatisms here and there, even in good ol' Europe (Scotland, Catalunya, Corsica, etc. not sure whether I should add Bretons on this list ), but none of them has claimed they'd like to tie bonds with another superpower like Russia, so does this compare or not ?
I think every of this separatic countries are just waiting for the break-up for Belgium. If this will happen in reality, it will start huge rebellion in many separatic counties imo.
Die hard fan of Tom Boonen and Quickstep since 2004.
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| Selwink |
Posted on 05-03-2014 07:14
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Didn't they also fly over Crimea with military planes? I believe it's forbidden to enter the airspace of another country without permission from the country they fly over. I might be mistaken, but I believe they did that.
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| Luis Leon Sanchez |
Posted on 05-03-2014 07:15
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Russia may not be suited for a democracy but they can sure have a non dictator leader. Someone who will listen to his people and not go against the whole world.
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