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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| Jupi |
Posted on 02-09-2012 09:47
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Looking at the GC top 10, the best placed guy who seems legit is Gesink, though I have no idea how much his leg is bothering him. |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 03-09-2012 11:31
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baseballlover312 wrote:
How obsene is this quote from the newest Sports Illustrated in an article about Lance Armstrong (They finally decide to move against him).
"Last month's Tour de France victory by Bradley Wiggins, long outspoken critic of of dopers in his sport, very much had the feel of triumph for clean cycling, as well."
Should've seen what it was like over here.
That said, cycling coverage is generally crap here. Ended up reading The Telegraph the other day and it was talking about Purito failing to win the flat stage against his challenger John Degenkolb. Shit newspaper anyway but still. |
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| toreaxe |
Posted on 08-09-2012 14:19
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I'm quite new to this forum and i have always loved cycling since i was a kid, seen lots of riders being caught doping and teams (ie festina. remember that quite well) i've stopped having heroes and cheering on riders. I started watching again after 5 years actually because of the game pcm2012 (my first pcm, and really enjoying it) to learn some riders.
Anyway, i think all top riders are doped (ALL!!!), confirmation of this idea came through watching a few years ago the Tom Simpson doc (on YT). O.k. it happened a long time ago, but for sure they have been doping since the time of Coppi and earlier. I've heard interviews of riders of those times and they all admit that there was this substance they called "the extra pair of legs", which they took when they were in difficulty. Returning to the Simpson story his team mates admits that all top riders of the day were taking something. If you wanted to win you would have to take something, if not you had to keep silence about other riders or else trouble.
Returning to more modern times, i watched, i think, the Alpe d'huez race when Pantani and Indurain were racing (for old times sake) and noticed how the first top riders of that race had all been caught doping(except Indurain, but it's logical he was on something, and there has always been the suspect). Pantani (my fav rider of the time) was never caught, but after his death a lot was said, like he was already doping in his junior years and continued, so when they did the tests, his values were always the same as previous years and in sporting history.
Now, today i live in Italy in Marche, a region where cycling is very popular, and know a few people and some cyclists riding in amateur teams. One told me that to be in an amateur team you HAVE to dope. It's one of the first things they ask you, if not, you're not racing however good you are (as if; yes you are good but you would never make pro). Others have told me (my uncle one of many) that the people who often go out riding the weekends (a group of 10-30 friends all in gear) some would often take something to show their friends they are better... Hmmm though true (ive heard quite a few people tell me this, i will not comment on their stupidity, you can make your own conclusion on those types...
Anyhow to finish. My cousin was a very talented rider he never took anything (i know him very well, he never wanted to turn pro because he knew he would have to dope) decided to retire about 20 years ago and made a junior team of riders (he was the team owner and sponser as he has a sport/cycling shop) thought it was best to go with juniors thinking that he would have less of those problems, untill he was continuously asked by fathers where he could get substances for their 13 year old kids?!! He didn't allow this in his team, so the kid next race was on another team and his dad grinning at my cousin the whole time... Again no comment... He has stopped having a team because he was continously harassed and disgusted by his new experiences at junior level as well.
So for all those people thinking they were good when they were juniors etc. Think again as they were probably doped maybe at the age of 13..... Hope you understand.
To conclude i think it's not only here in Italy where they start doping so young, but everywhere. My experience just tells my the sport is rotten (probably all sport where big money is involved) Again for me all top riders are doped and the odd teammate on a one off ride to win a classic or a race just so to keep racing pro. Sorry for being terribly long i just wanted to put out my personal thoughts and exp. Anyway i just look at it as "who's the best doped rider?". It's also true that one should not judge without facts, so again it just a personal thought and should not destroy others love for this beatifull sport.
Since i posted this on the wrong thread erm.... Yeah... (SKY) are the new Festina for me. Again i think it would be hipocritical to say that sky dopes and others don't. All top riders dopes for me, just some get caught and some don't.
Edited by toreaxe on 08-09-2012 16:19
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 10-09-2012 06:26
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Very negative, but still interesting and scary. I would like to hope that this is not happening, but if these are facts what you are saying, it is very sad. 
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 10-09-2012 07:09
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World Champion
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This happens in others sports as well, I've seen it first hand.
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| toreaxe |
Posted on 10-09-2012 08:44
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I thank you for at least reading my extremly long post. I hope you all watch the Simpson story (on YT) which is mind opening and i believe is still relevant to todays sport also there is an interesting article on Wiki about doping in cycling (history and present) which is actually more harder than my post with more cases and testimonys. I would disqualify all riders that have been caught, for life. I understand that it's harsh but i feel that it is neccesary. Get caught... Go and find yourself a job and in no way should be allowed to do any sports or manager (ex. Riis). Youngsters should be given the example that sports should be totally clean and based on morals of sportmanship and hard work. Not faked heroes. A lot of riders confess after they have retiered, thats because getting older they probably can't live with it. Sorry for going off topic... Again , and hope i have opened a few minds. But (as any subject at heart) to understand you should do some investigations yourself and use my post (and others) as a clue and work from there yourselves.
p.s. i am starting to watch the sport again. Don't ask me why, i suppose the sport is just too fascinating. But i keep my heart at a distance.
Thx again for the attention
Edited by toreaxe on 10-09-2012 08:47
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 21:56
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 10-09-2012 11:34
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Interesting reading. I must say I've not witnessed the same things on this side of the Alps, at least not in such large proportions. Admittedly it was 15 years ago or so for me, so I'm not sure in which ways youth categories have evolved.
I've heard those stories about Italian youth categories (especially the U23) a couple of times before, I reckon they're right, unfortunately.
I also agree on the life time bans. It's not like death penalty or jail for life, and interdiction to be part of a team staff.
Condemned people could still make a living out of a honest job. |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 10-09-2012 11:41
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What's an honest job?  |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 10-09-2012 11:45
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World Champion
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
What's an honest job?
Prostitution, the oldest job and you know you are f*cked up only in way you want.
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 10-09-2012 12:32
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Tour de France Champion
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
What's an honest job?
Prostitution, the oldest job and you know you are f*cked up only in way you want.
He he, nice one |
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| Alphabet |
Posted on 21-09-2012 06:48
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As far as SKY and doping go, I think Wiggins won the Tour clean (though I'm undecided as to whether or not he dopes out-of-competition), but his domestiques look very suspicious. Froome, for example, has gone from donkey to racehorse in just 12 months. Rogers is surprisingly good considering that it looked as though he was declining once he left Telekom, and Porte never showed this kind of form at Saxobank.
Wiggins didn't do anything extraordinary. He crushed his rivals in the TT (as expected), and none of them were able to put him in serious trouble in the mountains. Evans could have done it but he was sick, Nibali and Van Den Broeck tried often but just couldn't get away. I think if we had seen a fit Evans as well as other good climbers like Contador, Schleck, Sanchez, etc. in the Tour this year then Wiggins would have lost a fair chunk of time in the mountain stages. I know Wiggins has been autobus material for the majority of his road career, but it's not impossible for him to lose a bit of weight and improve his climbing skills even at this age.
He is an odious, arrogant, completely dislikeable person, and it does annoy me to see all the fawning he gets in the British/Anglophone media, as some sort of messiah for clean cycling, as a spiritual leader of the peloton. His overwhelming like and support for Armstrong is proof enough that he is an unpleasant, hypocritical person. He rants on about dopers costing him the chance to win races, rants at anyone who even questions him but at the end of the day backs the biggest fraud in the history of this sport and perhaps all sport to the hilt.
Edited by Alphabet on 21-09-2012 06:55
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| Wilier |
Posted on 21-09-2012 09:15
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What bothers me most about Wiggins is the fact that he was able to improve both his TT and his climbing skills. As far as I know that's unheard of, except for young riders still developing their body. But Wiggins isn't young he's 32 now. Even if he started training more seriously and lost a lot of weight I find his rate of improvement very hard to believe. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 21-09-2012 20:30
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It's not impossible. If you improve your power, that'll help you in both TT and mountains.
Plus if you focus more on mountains (through weight loss, etc.), you could also improve your TT at the same time, as they're as much about bike position, aerodynamics, etc. than sheer power.
Of course, if a pro rider loses a lot of weight (muscles) but still increases his sheer power, that raises a lot of questions. |
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| Alphabet |
Posted on 22-09-2012 04:15
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The only surprising thing about his TT was that he beat Cancellara. Other than that, he only crushed Evans in such a manner in the TT because Evans was sick and something has clearly gone wrong with his health since the end of the first week of the Tour that is still affecting him now several months later. You shouldn't be placed under the doping microscope for beating a sick Evans, and some other GC contenders who are a level below with their TTing ability (i.e. Nibali, Van Den Broeck).
The climbing was a little more suspicious but I think he got away with it because he had Froome to chase down most of the attacks and also the likes of Van Den Broeck and Nibali, whilst good climbers, aren't really good enough to sustain repeated attacks. |
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| Alphabet |
Posted on 22-09-2012 05:31
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I'm certain he was doping out-of-competition though. Trips to Tenerife? Very reminiscent of Armstrong and Ferrari.
Here's a good article: https://theelement...y-wiggins/ |
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| stenic |
Posted on 28-09-2012 18:37
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hello all, has anyone seen the "Team Sky road to glory" series? i'm guessing at the moment its only available in the UK but before long it'll probably be on youtube or other news international owned channels around the world, anyways it explains alot, that Dave Brailsford's theory about "marginal gains" actually works, that Sky probably train harder than other team in the off season and that other teams could learn alot from the way they prepare for races. i'm 100% certain given that Wiggins, Froome, etc have been followed around 24/7 by TV crews for nearly a year for this series if any of them had failed a test it would have become public knowledge very quickly. |
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| jt1109 |
Posted on 28-09-2012 18:45
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I don't like this term trained harder! as i find it impossible that professional athlete's are trying "harder" then each other i think training "smarter" is probably the best word for it wheather that be through legal substances or not.(Sorry for the random outburst ) |
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| stenic |
Posted on 28-09-2012 19:12
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jt1109 wrote:
I don't like this term trained harder! as i find it impossible that professional athlete's are trying "harder" then each other i think training "smarter" is probably the best word for it wheather that be through legal substances or not.(Sorry for the random outburst )
maybe trained harder is a wrong term, they are fortunate to have a wealthy sponsor who can provide the money to go anywhere in the world for their off season training but the Majorca training camp looked perfect training for TDF. Mark Cavendish is a big advocate of anti doping and regardless of his team this year i don't believe he would stay silent if any of his team mates were doping. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 28-09-2012 19:18
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So much candour... Wake up. |
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| Alphabet |
Posted on 04-10-2012 04:49
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stenic wrote:
jt1109 wrote:
I don't like this term trained harder! as i find it impossible that professional athlete's are trying "harder" then each other i think training "smarter" is probably the best word for it wheather that be through legal substances or not.(Sorry for the random outburst )
maybe trained harder is a wrong term, they are fortunate to have a wealthy sponsor who can provide the money to go anywhere in the world for their off season training but the Majorca training camp looked perfect training for TDF. Mark Cavendish is a big advocate of anti doping and regardless of his team this year i don't believe he would stay silent if any of his team mates were doping.
Cav may not have known about it. Not everybody on Postal knew about exactly what Lance was taking, for example; only the elite climbers did. |
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