Levi4life wrote:
2. So you have never opened an issue of Velonews and therefore do not know of the reporting style of the journalists who write for the magazine.
That's right, keep pretending we're not talking about the website. You're really annoying me.
Levi4life wrote:
3. If one has never read an issue of a sporting magazine how can one know of the bias (or lack there-of) of the contributers. Velonews' pre-Tour issue emphasized the potential for Slipstream to place someone in the top 10 overall and maybe nab a stage win. On velonews' favorites list there weren't any Americans mentioned.
one example. fantastic. that's all you can come up with?
Levi4life wrote:
4. But Rock racing has never produced a positive test, and therefore, has never produced a positive test.
Neither have oh so many dozens of teams and hundreds of riders that were later found to be doping
Levi4life wrote:
5. I have read posts that would lead me to believe that you, issoisso have an inherrent distrust of al things cycling, including slipstream.
If I did I wouldn't watch cycling. I have an inherent trust. When facts appear to the contrary, I start to think otherwise.
Levi4life wrote:
Maybe this is taken out of context but I am sure that if I look I will find. Therefore I will begin looking. EDIT Apparently I do not have access to search the site
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how convenient. Go ahead, show me that my distrust is inherent. The only way to prove that would be to show that I think the worst of all things cycling without any indication supporting it. Good luck finding one instance, nevermind instances for everything regarding cycling.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
You know what REALLY pisses me off? I'm never the one who brings up the doping talk, yet I always get blamed for it.
IM FUCKING SICK OF IT
this is my last post. so long and fuck off
Edited by issoisso on 01-09-2008 21:47
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
What I get sick of, is that some people are so ignorant, and I don't want to be the one who sets them straight. I did so for years, but that gives you titles as 'most aggresive member' or 'most annoying member'. So I just stopped right there and blindly read over their posts.
Maybe you should try it Isso, I know you mean well, but these people will never ever get it.
Ruben wrote:
What I get sick of, is that some people are so ignorant, and I don't want to be the one who sets them straight. I did so for years, but that gives you titles as 'most aggresive member' or 'most annoying member'. So I just stopped right there and blindly read over their posts.
Maybe you should try it Isso, I know you mean well, but these people will never ever get it.
Levi4life wrote:
2. So you have never opened an issue of Velonews and therefore do not know of the reporting style of the journalists who write for the magazine.
That's right, keep pretending we're not talking about the website. You're really annoying me.
Levi4life wrote:
3. If one has never read an issue of a sporting magazine how can one know of the bias (or lack there-of) of the contributers. Velonews' pre-Tour issue emphasized the potential for Slipstream to place someone in the top 10 overall and maybe nab a stage win. On velonews' favorites list there weren't any Americans mentioned.
one example. fantastic. that's all you can come up with?
Levi4life wrote:
4. But Rock racing has never produced a positive test, and therefore, has never produced a positive test.
Neither have oh so many dozens of teams and hundreds of riders that were later found to be doping
Levi4life wrote:
5. I have read posts that would lead me to believe that you, issoisso have an inherrent distrust of al things cycling, including slipstream.
If I did I wouldn't watch cycling. I have an inherent trust. When facts appear to the contrary, I start to think otherwise.
Levi4life wrote:
Maybe this is taken out of context but I am sure that if I look I will find. Therefore I will begin looking. EDIT Apparently I do not have access to search the site
Google
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how convenient. Go ahead, show me that my distrust is inherent. The only way to prove that would be to show that I think the worst of all things cycling without any indication supporting it. Good luck finding one instance, nevermind instances for everything regarding cycling.
1. The facts stating that Rock racing has never produced a positive test and subscribes to the same anti-doping program as Slipstream. Those facts.
2. Ok if you want to play that game: No mention of Americans on the report of the Vuelta stage, Nothing in the report on Katyusha's recent signings or McEwen and Karpets, Based on the next article down the list I see only quotes and a report on how the race unfolded at US National RR, Nothing in ToI except a mention that columbia is a US based team and Dominated with 4 stage wins and the overall, The only mention of America in the report from the tour of Germany is Stage winner's De La Fuente's team(Scott-American Beef), then there is an article on the rumors flying around Sastre and a the possibility of him leaveing CSC, then there is an article on the US national TT(If velonews had said something like "An American is going to win here I would have been Duh stupid," that is hardly Bias, thats just common sense), There is transfer news; Dirk Demol is going to work for Astana, and there is a rundown of his carreer till this now. Down a little farther off the main page there is a startlist for the US national championsips, a stage one report which named Astana the pre-race favorites for the TTT at the Vuelta saying that with Leipheimer and Kloden lining up with Contador, Astana had to be the favorites, Russel Downing's stage win at ToI, Another article on the startlist of the US Natl. TT championship asserting that 3 Garmin riders and 2 Bissel riders were favorites(a farily accurate prediction as 4 of the 5 they picked were top 8, 3 were top 3/ the 5th Danny Pate never showed up at his start time.), next is a report on Ondrej Sosenka's positive, confirmation of Specialized to Saxo Bank, then another for Scott to Columbia, more transfer news, Devolder and Garate, cav's third win in Ireland, a column on the legal rights of cyclists, a prediction that the Vuelta will be a Canotador vs. Stastre dual with notable mentions to Kloden, Leipheimer, Valverde, Cunego and Anton. Up next for inspection for blatant American bias is a training column, an article on a few of the riders on Columbia's team for the Tour of Missouri, including the first mention in days of George Hincapie(a full startlist is included), an advertisement of a website were you can see races live, ToI with cav winning again, cyclocross stuff, news on Cervelo's move, Gerolsteiner's management giving up the sponsor hunt, an article on Zabel, oh here we go an article on Vuelta teams... upon further inspection there is no mention of Astana, or Levi at all, an article on Dan Martin and Maggy Backstedts illness, Scott's move away from Saunier, an advertisement for a Colorad based team looking for Cat 3 racers, Cav's first Irish win, Evans extension with Silence, Ivan Gutierez win at Benelux, an article on Peter Stetina's win in some mountain bike race while wearing a Tokyo Joes Jersey, An article on Contador's super team; how Kloden and leipheimer will be a big help, Giant to Rabobank, Here you go say what you will about it https://www.velonews.com/article/82379...e-ceremony but I think most of will agree that Levi is one of the worlds top cyclists jsut as the articl says, an article on Di Luca's attempts to get on the Italian worlds team, Edvald Boasson Hagen stage win at Benelux, Ed Beamon and his TT1 squad trip to ireland, bike stuff, Irish start lists, an article on a MTB series in the midwest, Fedrigo's win at GP Plouay, Carlo Westphaal stage win at Benelux, a page of pictures snapped by Velonews' olympic correspondent, the Vuelta's official startlist, advertisements for electrolyte tablets, a hub and a report on a domestic race, the mens race won by an aussie and the womens race won by an American. I could keep going and I doubt I'll find the blatant bias you so desperately need to back up for statements isso. I find Velonews a fairly objective source for news.
3. I could have also mentioned how Velonews said that Hincapie could potentially win a stage but that didn't happen because he was working for Cavendish whowas winning stage after stage and for Kirchen who was a top 10 contender, though if I remember he did a decent final TT.
4.+5. Hah I have you now. Apparently Rock racings anti-doping program(the same one as Slipstream if you didn't know) isn't enough assurance for you, and if you cannot trust Slipstream you cannot trust anyone. if you don't trust anyone isso why DO you watch cycling?
So why do you follow cycling good sir?
EDIT: At least we are done now. I find that debate a rather irrellevant point.
So how did it start. We were debating the source of a poll.
Edited by Levi4life on 01-09-2008 23:03
it's for consistency. Very few races make it a specifically sprinters race. The TDF is one of the races that does.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
Dude, the finish might have been flat, there was a cat 2 mountain just before, where only 10 riders where there on the top (and 15 others returned in downhill)
Lövkvist has impressed me in the Deutschland Tour eventough it's a rather weak peleton there. It doesn't look like he has the potential to do a good grand tour though.
1 André Greipel (Ger) Columbia
2 Robbie McEwen (Aus) Silence-Lotto
3 Robert Förster (Ger) Gerolsteiner
4 Mark Renshaw (Aus) Crédit Agricole
5 Graeme Brown (Aus) Rabobank
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
What a crazy race, what happened? Different time gaps and all...
1º 131 BENNATI, Daniele ITA LIQ 4:27:54
2º 143 BOONEN, Tom BEL QST m.t.
3º 83 FDEZ DE LARREA, Koldo ESP EUS m.t.
4º 127 NAPOLITANO, Danilo ITA LAM m.t.
5º 171 ZABEL, Erik GER MRM m.t.
6º 169 VAN AVERMAET, Greg BEL SIL m.t.
7º 145 WEYLANDT, Wouter BEL QST m.t.
8º 146 VIGANO, Davide ITA QST m.t.
9º 78 ROCHE, Nicolas IRL C.A a 3
10º 61 CHAVANEL, Sylvain FRA COF a 3
11º 7 BRESCHEL, Matti DEN CSC a 3
12º 19 USOV, Alexandre BLR ALM a 6
13º 97 MEERSMAN, Gianni BEL FDJ a 6
14º 115 GARCÍA DAPENA, David ESP XAG a 7
15º 122 BALLAN, Alessandro ITA LAM a 7
16º 153 FLECHA, Juan Antonio ESP RAB a 7
17º 161 POPOVYCH, Yaroslav UKR SIL a 7
18º 108 HAUSSLER, Heinrich GER GST a 7
19º 86 PÉREZ, Alan ESP EUS a 7
20º 174 GRIVKO, Andriy UKR MRM a 7
21º 81 ANTON, Igor ESP EUS a 7
22º 18 POULHIES, Stéphane FRA ALM a 7
23º 144 GARATE, Juan Manuel ESP QST a 7
24º 11 NOCENTINI, Rinaldo ITA ALM a 7
25º 94 GILBERT, Philippe BEL FDJ a 7
26º 48 PICHOT, Alexandre FRA BTL a 12
27º 141 BETTINI, Paolo ITA QST a 12
28º 87 PÉREZ MORENO, Rubén ESP EUS a 16
29º 92 DELAGE, Mickael FRA FDJ a 19
30º 88 TXURRUKA, Amets ESP EUS a 19
31º 85 MARTÍNEZ, Egoi ESP EUS a 19
32º 183 ESKOV, Nikita RUS TCS a 19
33º 31 CONTADOR, Alberto ESP AST a 19
34º 52 ARROYO, David ESP GCE a 19
35º 124 BRUSEGHIN, Marzio ITA LAM a 19
36º 168 TJALLINGII, Maarten NED SIL a 19
37º 82 ASTARLOZA, Mikel ESP EUS a 19
38º 55 MORENO FERNÁNDEZ, Daniel ESP GCE a 19
39º 1 SASTRE, Carlos ESP CSC a 19
40º 111 MOSQUERA, Ezequiel ESP XAG a 19
41º 51 VALVERDE, Alejandro ESP GCE a 19
42º 47 LABBE, Arnaud FRA BTL a 19
43º 6 KROON, Karsten NED CSC a 19
44º 189 TRUSOV, Nikolay RUS TCS a 19
45º 176 KUX, Christian GER MRM a 19
46º 33 LEIPHEIMER, Levi USA AST a 19
47º 95 JOLY, Sébastien FRA FDJ a 19
48º 113 CÉSAR VELOSO, Gustavo ESP XAG a 19
49º 54 ERVITI, Imanol ESP GCE a 19
50º 49 BONNAIRE, Olivier FRA BTL a 19
51º 133 CORIONI, Claudio ITA LIQ a 26
52º 135 POZZATO, Filippo ITA LIQ a 26
53º 139 VANOTTI, Alessandro ITA LIQ a 26
54º 73 HUNT, Jeremy GBR C.A a 34
55º 36 NOVAL, Benjamín ESP AST a 36
56º 57 PASAMONTES, Luis ESP GCE a 42
57º 155 GESINK, Robert NED RAB a 42
58º 109 ZAUGG, Oliver SUI GST a 42
59º 58 RODRÍGUEZ OLIVER, Joaquín ESP GCE a 42
60º 71 HALGAND, Patrice FRA C.A a 42
61º 66 MONCOUTIE, David FRA COF a 42
62º 158 NIERMANN, Grischa GER RAB a 42
63º 182 ROVNY, Ivan RUS TCS a 42
64º 8 BLAUDZUN, Michael DEN CSC a 42
[...]
165º 37 PAULINHO, Sergio POR AST a 5:24 YAY!
166º 13 DION, Renaud FRA ALM a 6:53
167º 74 KERN, Christophe FRA C.A a 6:53
168º 42 CLEMENT, Stef NED BTL a 11:37
169º 43 CLERC, Aurélien SUI BTL a 11:37
Dan_Grr wrote:
165º 37 PAULINHO, Sergio POR AST a 5:24 YAY!
Many riders crashed and lost time. He was one of them
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
Goldberger wrote:
Lövkvist has impressed me in the Deutschland Tour eventough it's a rather weak peleton there. It doesn't look like he has the potential to do a good grand tour though.
)
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