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Le Tour 09: Stage 20: Montélimar - Mont Ventoux
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| Ildabaoth |
Posted on 25-07-2009 15:58
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I'm afraid this discussion is pointless. Ok, right, if to win 41 seconds in a split is enough to deserve a podium, we shall everybody conclude that Pereiro's win at the Tour de France 06 was totally deserved too because of his lucky breakaway (a breakaway is a part of the race too, isn't it?).
Anyways, it's nice to do a debate about it, not a personal insults interexchange.
Disclaimer: The above post reflects just the personal opinion of the author and not a fact. But if you read it, you must accept it as the ultimate truth.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 11:05
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| Macquet |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:00
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And Pellizotti rode purely to win the KOM as he came in 4-5 minutes back on a few stages after he had gained points. I would say he tried to win a stage like today as well, but that would have been icing on the cake. |
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| Rinhoth |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:01
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Yeah, he deserved to win the tour. He was the man who was fastest to Paris, except for a certain doper, and so he deserved to win the tour.
If children have the ability to ignore all odds and percentages, then maybe we can all learn from them. When you think about it, what other choice is there but to hope? We have two options, medically and emotionally: give up, or Fight Like Hell.
-Lance Armstrong
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| Dan_Grr |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:01
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Thor and Cavendish sprinted to the finish line together.
They're probably lovers. |
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| Macquet |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:02
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Ildabaoth wrote:
I'm afraid this discussion is pointless. Ok, right, if to win 41 seconds in a split is enough to deserve a podium, we shall everybody conclude that Pereiro's win at the Tour de France 06 was totally deserved too because of his lucky breakaway (a breakaway is a part of the race too, isn't it?).
Anyways, it's nice to do a debate about it, not a personal insults interexchange.
...he also had the lucky break  of Landis being a dq'ed...
If the "leaders" allow that size of a break and can't chase it down it is their fault not a lucky break. Just like if you are not paying attention because it is the first week of the Tour you deserve to lose time...you can't win the race in the first week but you can certainly lose it....Menchov, Evans, Sastre for example.
Edited by Macquet on 25-07-2009 16:04
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:04
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Rinhoth wrote:
Yeah, oly two giro riders did a good tour, Armstrong and Pellizotti
what about wiggins? |
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| BenBarnes |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:05
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What I think would have made the tour more exciting is if other major contenders had been on better form. If Sastre and Menchov weren't so tired from the Giro and if Evans had a better Tour then they could have teammed up with Saxo to try and dethrone Astana. Andy and Frank weren't strong enough alone. Contador rode so well I don't know what it would have changed, but at least would have been more exciting I think. |
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| pangare |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:07
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Lance, marry me  |
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| KurtinSC |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:09
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Ildabaoth wrote:
I'm afraid this discussion is pointless. Ok, right, if to win 41 seconds in a split is enough to deserve a podium, we shall everybody conclude that Pereiro's win at the Tour de France 06 was totally deserved too because of his lucky breakaway (a breakaway is a part of the race too, isn't it?).
Anyways, it's nice to do a debate about it, not a personal insults interexchange.
There's a reason the tour doesn't consist entirely of mountain stages and time trials.
Yes, breakaways do count. Yes, splits do as well.
The other thing to look at is circumstances of the race. Let's say Lance was down by 30 seconds or so going into today. Would he have marked Frank?
Nope... he would have tried to ride Frank off his wheel... and I think looking at how they rode today... that could easily have happened. But he was ahead... so he didn't have to.
Even taking away 40 seconds for the split and 40 for the TTT... Armstrong would have been ahead of Frank going into stage 17. Now if you assume the TTT had been replaced with a ITT (which seems likely)... Armstrong probably would win by more then he did (though Wiggins might have beaten him).
The TTT probably helpted Andy and Frank. Lance and Contador would have gained more time if it was a ITT. It hurt Wiggins a bit perhaps. |
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| lettini |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:09
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without contadors help on mount ventoux
lance wouldn´t be on the 3.place |
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| Shooting Star |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:11
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It's all circumstances. You can make a case for why Cavendish isn't on the podium if you want to. |
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| BenBarnes |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:13
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Shooting Star wrote:
It's all circumstances. You can make a case for why Cavendish isn't on the podium if you want to.
Haha, I'd like to hear that case  |
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| KurtinSC |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:13
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lettini wrote:
without contadors help on mount ventoux
lance wouldn´t be on the 3.place
And without Andy's help on Le Grand-Bornand, Frank would have gained a minute less then he did.
And a team time trial rather then an individual time trial probably saved him another minute.
And Lance would still have finished 3rd.
See... the "what if's" go both ways. |
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| KurtinSC |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:16
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BenBarnes wrote:
Shooting Star wrote:
It's all circumstances. You can make a case for why Cavendish isn't on the podium if you want to.
Haha, I'd like to hear that case
If all the stages were Flat with no TT's...
Cav wins 21 stages and the Tour.
See... just a poor route for his overall chances. |
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| Sherpa |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:20
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I am really happy with Lance Armstrong. Deserved one. He was the third best rider in this Tour. I would put things like this:
Mountain:
1-Contador
2-A. Shleck
3-F. Shleck
4-Armstrong
5-Wiggins
TT:
1-Contador
2-Wiggins
3-Armstrong
4-A. Shleck
5-F. Shleck
Overall:
Contador: 2
A. Shleck: 6
Armstrong: 7
Wiggins: 7
F. Shleck: 8
I can't see why Armstrong don't deserve his podium |
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| Shooting Star |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:24
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If let's say, Wiggins was ahead of Armstrong before this stage, I'm sure Armstrong would have tried to ride him off. And he most likely would have succeeded, considering Wiggins fell back several times up Mont Ventoux. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:34
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Shooting Star wrote:
If let's say, Wiggins was ahead of Armstrong before this stage, I'm sure Armstrong would have tried to ride him off. And he most likely would have succeeded, considering Wiggins fell back several times up Mont Ventoux.
whats your point? |
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| KurtinSC |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:34
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I think one point that needs to be emphasized is that if the TTT wasn't in the tour this year, chances are good another ITT would have been.
Last year had 2 total TT's.. .but that's the exception, not the rule, and they covered more distance then the 2 ITT"s in this year's races. I can't remember the last time it happened before that... definitely pre-Indurain and Lemond. |
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| Shooting Star |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:37
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ringo182 wrote:
Shooting Star wrote:
If let's say, Wiggins was ahead of Armstrong before this stage, I'm sure Armstrong would have tried to ride him off. And he most likely would have succeeded, considering Wiggins fell back several times up Mont Ventoux.
whats your point?
Armstrong deserves to be on the podium. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 25-07-2009 16:39
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Shooting Star wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Shooting Star wrote:
If let's say, Wiggins was ahead of Armstrong before this stage, I'm sure Armstrong would have tried to ride him off. And he most likely would have succeeded, considering Wiggins fell back several times up Mont Ventoux.
whats your point?
Armstrong deserves to be on the podium.
agreed |
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