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La Fleche Wallonne 2014
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| Wilier |
Posted on 24-04-2014 11:43
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While that could be true, it must be noted that the wind was favourable during the last Cauberg ascent (I believe they said that on Sporza) and the conditions weren't particularly bad during Flèche either (I'm not sure about the wind conditions there).
And the pace at the foot of the climb could influence the climbing times as well.
Still, you can't be too sure. Some teams will always look for a way to win, whatever the means. Edit: The way Valverde is riding this season makes that pretty clear.
Edited by Wilier on 24-04-2014 11:45
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 24-04-2014 11:48
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Wilier wrote:
While that could be true, it must be noted that the wind was favourable during the last Cauberg ascent (I believe they said that on Sporza) and the conditions weren't particularly bad during Flèche either (I'm not sure about the wind conditions there).
And the pace at the foot of the climb could influence the climbing times as well.
Still, you can't be too sure. Some teams will always look for a way to win, whatever the means. Edit: The way Valverde is riding this season makes that pretty clear.
Also, 2011 Gilbert was already sure of victory 50 meters before the finish and lost seconds celebrating. Not saying he climbed it 100% clean now, I don't know, but it's another factor which plays.
Sporza also said those records/times are something fun to see, but you can't take them too seriously. There are way too many factors (how was the race, did you fall earlier in the race, waste energy, wind, rain, temperature, form, race situation...) Also can they measure it precisely? Did they see Gilbert at the exact spot where they started measuring before and at the finish/top of the hill? |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 07:45
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 24-04-2014 11:54
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baseballlover312 wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
Hmmm maybe Martin will win this Fleche yet. 
Unlikely. 
I don't know Valverde seems to have gotten some extra special sauce on his burger this year.
If Valverde is on sauce, Martin is pretty likely too.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 24-04-2014 11:55
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Yeah, technological advances that are nigh-on impossible to make due to UCI regulations have given more of an advantage than a wide array of doping methods. Sounds right to me.
+100, or even more.
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 24-04-2014 12:06
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I don't know what's suspicious about Piti's ride. He simply attacked at the right time. Dan Martin and Kwiatkowski were at least as strong if not stronger. If you think that 20 odd riders are on dope then don't even waste your time watching the race. That's my opinion on that. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 24-04-2014 12:08
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Kirchen_75 wrote:
I don't know what's suspicious about Piti's ride. He simply attacked at the right time. Dan Martin and Kwiatkowski were at least as strong if not stronger. If you think that 20 odd riders are on dope then don't even waste your time watching the race. That's my opinion on that.
You probably somehow missed two pages where people discuss that this time of Valverde was fastest ever on the Mur de Huy 
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 24-04-2014 12:09
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Kirchen_75 wrote:
I don't know what's suspicious about Piti's ride. He simply attacked at the right time. Dan Martin and Kwiatkowski were at least as strong if not stronger. If you think that 20 odd riders are on dope then don't even waste your time watching the race. That's my opinion on that.
You probably somehow missed two pages where people discuss that this time of Valverde was fastest ever on the Mur de Huy
The rest didn't finish a minute behind did they? |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 24-04-2014 12:11
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Kirchen_75 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Kirchen_75 wrote:
I don't know what's suspicious about Piti's ride. He simply attacked at the right time. Dan Martin and Kwiatkowski were at least as strong if not stronger. If you think that 20 odd riders are on dope then don't even waste your time watching the race. That's my opinion on that.
You probably somehow missed two pages where people discuss that this time of Valverde was fastest ever on the Mur de Huy
The rest didn't finish a minute behind did they?
Nope, but some of them are not convicted dopers, who were better average after coming from the ban and suddenly are on the rampage in 2014, like Valverde. If there is nothing fishy for you going on in this cycling season, your choice, but it is a bit strange to ask what is so surprising.
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 24-04-2014 12:13
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Kirchen_75 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Kirchen_75 wrote:
I don't know what's suspicious about Piti's ride. He simply attacked at the right time. Dan Martin and Kwiatkowski were at least as strong if not stronger. If you think that 20 odd riders are on dope then don't even waste your time watching the race. That's my opinion on that.
You probably somehow missed two pages where people discuss that this time of Valverde was fastest ever on the Mur de Huy
The rest didn't finish a minute behind did they?
Nope, but some of them are not convicted dopers, who were better average after coming from the ban and suddenly are on the rampage in 2014, like Valverde. If there is nothing fishy for you going on in this cycling season, your choice, but it is a bit strange to ask what is so surprising.
Winning Roma Maxima, Andalucia and 5th in Pais Vasco is hardly rampage. |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 24-04-2014 12:16
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Nope, but some of them are not convicted dopers, who were better average after coming from the ban and suddenly are on the rampage in 2014
When was Valverde ever "better average"?  Also, rampage, uh? He has great legs this year but rampage, uh?!
I don't know what's suspicious about Piti's ride. He simply attacked at the right time. Dan Martin and Kwiatkowski were at least as strong if not stronger. If you think that 20 odd riders are on dope then don't even waste your time watching the race. That's my opinion on that.
This.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 24-04-2014 12:21
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He is first in PCS rankings for some reason, he is gaining points left and right since season start, while he was only shadow of his former self in 2012 and first half of 2013 seasons, with bright exceptions...
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 24-04-2014 12:23
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| Shonak |
Posted on 24-04-2014 12:28
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Erm, Valverde returned in 2012, of course he needs time to get into racing again. In late 2012, he would have presumably won Vuelta if it hadn't been for the crash in the first week. He came 3rd at World Championships. He ranked 5th in PCS ranking in 2012. How is this "better average", because if this is better average, I really want to be better average too.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 24-04-2014 12:32
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Valverde is just one of the best riders around these years. I'm not a fan of him, but I still see no reason to doubt him without proof. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 24-04-2014 12:33
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Shonak wrote:
Erm, Valverde returned in 2012, of course he needs time to get into racing again. In late 2012, he would have presumably won Vuelta if it hadn't been for the crash in the first week. He came 3rd at World Championships. He ranked 5th in PCS ranking in 2012. How is this "better average", because if this is better average, I really want to be better average too.
After browsing through all his results in 2012 and 2013 i have to get down on my knees and say you are right, i had only those Vuelta's as bigger memories and those are actually _______________/ Valverde made profiles. But yeah, he was not only better average, at least by results. Anyway he seems on another level this year to me, almost like he wants to challenge SKY madness.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 24-04-2014 13:21
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He missed the wins in the two previous years and he has them this season, maybe that's why he appears so strong in comparison? We only remember the winners after all.
He's riding stronger, yes, but that could be his mind too. He's riding more clever. And his win total is good at this point of the year, but those are, except for Fleche, lesser races and they were mostly early on. Hm, some people would even claim that Fleche is a lesser race too, since it's between Liege and AGR, who are both more prestitigous. Kirchen75's point is valid.
I don't think he's close to the same category as the domination of SKY like in the campaign of 2013. He'd have to win more and he'd have to win those races in a different manner to really justify the word "domination" in my opinion.
Edited by Shonak on 24-04-2014 13:24
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 24-04-2014 14:03
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Wilier wrote:
While that could be true, it must be noted that the wind was favourable during the last Cauberg ascent (I believe they said that on Sporza) and the conditions weren't particularly bad during Flèche either (I'm not sure about the wind conditions there).
And the pace at the foot of the climb could influence the climbing times as well.
Still, you can't be too sure. Some teams will always look for a way to win, whatever the means. Edit: The way Valverde is riding this season makes that pretty clear.
Fair enough, this could well be true, much better reasoning at least than head in the sand technological and training advances made in just a few years.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 24-04-2014 14:28
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Oh, I just noticed that I misunderstood Aquarius comment . He said, "heavily EPO'ed times", I understood it as "heavy EPO times" (basically the time of a decade ago). Obviously that's a difference and there hasn't been that much advancement in technology. Scuzzi.
However, I still think it's valid to say that the Fleche Wallone is being raced different than in earlier years. Basically, riders have to spent less energy for the ride to the Mur due to its stale, predictable riding. And that must play a factor a climb such as the Mur. Maybe that's the point where those bonus seconds are gained. But I'm just explanation guessing.
Edited by Shonak on 24-04-2014 14:29
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 24-04-2014 17:36
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Yep, till 2003 a break usually made it, even in the EPO'ed 90's, so times were slower.
Since then it's still been very EPO'ed, but maybe less since 2010 or 2011. Yet the times have kept improving.
I know it's only a few seconds here and there, but we're talking about a ~160 seconds effort here, it's not like breaking the record for a 40 minutes mountain ascent by 3 seconds.
And if bikes have evolved, their weight has remained the same, so that's not much of a difference when it's all about going uphill.
I agree about tactics too, when you know it's going to end up that way you hardly bother wasting strengths prior, but still, when you add the resurrection of Contador, Valverde earlier this season already, and Gilbert breaking the Cauberg's record as well, I think (but it's an opinion, I may be wrong) that it draws a trend that I'm not too happy to see. |
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| Movistar |
Posted on 24-04-2014 20:40
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Shonak wrote:
Also, isn't this whole thread about people complaining that nothing happens in this race and that in the good old times everything was more exciting? Riders just know they have to save their legs for the Mur. No favourites attack, no reason to react. I like to think I'm faster too when I save my energy for a specific moment, especially when it's a climb like the Mur de Huy, where you just go full-throttle for a kilometer and then whoever has it in his legs, has the win.
This is the truth right here. Lets say the riders today are perfectly clean, well when they go on a 200km training ride before a 1km sprint even they can beat times set up by riders on EPO who are chasing attacks from the other favorites left and right.
That is part of the reason races are boring as shit today is because we have less drugs. EPO allowed guys to go on crazy attacks 50km out or attack from the bottom of a 15km mountain in the Alps.
When you only have to make 1 effort all day you dont need EPO or any other dope. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 24-04-2014 20:48
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Bullshit. That's just totally wrong.
Pre-EPO flat stages : something like 30 % of breaks made it to the end.
EPO times flat stages : 99 % of bunch sprints.
Pre-EPO Milan San-Remo : a guy often made it solo to the end, or a small group.
EPO MSR : countless bunch sprints, won by "clean" guys like Zabel, Cipo, Freire, Tchmill (sort of), etc.
Give them more EPO, I actually like bunch sprints. |
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