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Transfer Season 14/15
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| jacobjc88 |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:04
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Domestique
Posts: 424
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PCM$: 200.00
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admirschleck wrote:
Sorry. That.
Of course he made few attacks, I never said he's passive all the time, but that he's way less passive than one young rider and future GT winner should be. Just take Aru as an example. I am, at the end, allowed to have my own opinion, especially in these situations when I am discussing this with a fanboy who's clearly biased.
No one said you weren't allowed to have your own opinion. It's just a discussion about whether Kelderman will be able to finish on the podium / win a GT. Saying that he never attacks is wrong, he tried to attack in the Giro several times, even lost time because of these attacks.
I'm no Kelderman fanboy, actually I don't really like him. But I believe he will be able to get on the podium in GTs. I don't believe he will be able to win it. He's showing some stability which I don't think Aru has.
When I see Aru, I see: Great performances one day, but the next day he stepped a level down. I don't believe he will win a GT ever. Stability wins GTs, and I just don't see it in Aru.
Present:
Tinkoff-Saxo - AG2R - Colombian riders
Past:
Francisco Mancebo - Illes balears - Carlos Sastre - Kelme - Robbie McEwen
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| Shonak |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:05
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Kelderman is a very attacking rider, imo. Just in this year, there are several instances, ranging from Paris - Nice to Criterium, where he tried his luck in a good manner. He doesn't always attack at the obvious points or stages, but also looks out for when the race gives him an opportunitiy, such as yesterday. Contador weakened Sky defenses and Kelderman alongside Yates saw the opportunitiy to gain time. I don't think he set out yesterday and thought "I'll attack at this point", but rather he interpreted the racing in a smart manner. Similiar where his attacks in the Giro. Definitely a quality I admire in any rider, and one that is important to do podium a GT I think.
Edited by Shonak on 13-06-2014 19:07
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:07
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World Champion
Posts: 11971
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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it's the transfer thread guys
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:12
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Team Leader
Posts: 6690
Joined: 11-10-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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That's simply not true. Every rider attacks sometimes, some less - some more. I just stated that I don't think Kelderman has that positive arrogancy to make moves in some key moments, which will "cost" him possible TdF victory.
Of course, Wiggins won (despite being one of the strongest riders there) because it was a TdF just designed for him - with many TT kilometers and with small amount of mountains and even there he got huge help from Froome.
Please do not say that Kelderman attacks more than Aru. That's just ridiculous and it's far from the thruth. Aru is currently one of rare guys in peloton that is ready to attack in every moment of the race. Sometimes, these attacks cost him indeed, but we're not talking about that now.
Also, for your post deleted post Luigi that was something like: "Remind me when someone who attacked won TdF". Well, it was recent past. Last year, actually. Froome just blown away competition on Ventoux and all other climbs. He, of course, gained some time on TT's, but you can't say he won it there.
@Shonak & jacobjc88 - I never said Kelderman never attacks, but that he doesn't attack that much and he doesn't attack more than he actually follow other wheels/guys. At least that's what I saw in pre-giro races, Giro and few kilometers of Dauphine I managed to watch this year.
EDIT: Indeed, we should stop with this. It's the transfer thread after all.
Edited by admirschleck on 13-06-2014 19:14
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:19
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Well, from recent memory, Kelderman does attack in key moments. Dauphiné stage 2, Val Martello stage, and some other Giro stages as well, like stage 18 iirc(and Stelvio stage Giro '13 was key as well). But thing is, he also attacks at moments that nobody expects it, which also is a sign that he dares to do stuff. Look at Dauphiné yesterday, or Paris-Nice(stage where he got third).
He's not more agressive than Aru, but they have the similarity that they both dare to attack more than the average climber/GT contender. Someone like VdB, Mollema, Valverde(a bit less than others, but still), Evans,those just rarely attack, and that doesn't apply to Kelderman, while you think that's the truth.
Of course there are attackers winning TdF, but definitely non-attackers as well. And Kelderman is actually an attacker, he takes risks.
Your edit came too late for me. But there's not really another suitable place to discuss this, is there?
Edited by Jesleyh on 13-06-2014 19:22
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| jumbobogen |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:19
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Domestique
Posts: 693
Joined: 31-10-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Oleg Tinkoff would like to have Sagan 
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| MrUfo87 |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:22
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2803
Joined: 06-01-2012
PCM$: 700.00
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jumbobogen wrote:
Oleg Tinkoff would like to have Sagan
1. It's old news and 2. Who doesn't? But I'm happy you post something about transfers and stop the Kelderman discussion. 
Don't know why that should be discussed it here because I already mentioned it in news of June and it's not a real transfer. If we should post all the rumours here it would be too chaotic, especially if we always get a discussion like this... https://www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthr...wstart=100
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 07:49
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:25
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Jesleyh wrote:
Your edit came too late for me. But there's not really another suitable place to discuss this, is there?
Np mate, I'm gonna make a lets hate on Belkin-thread in a moment.
Mollema is boring as hell, Kruijswijk is a big disappointment, Gesink will never come close to a podium, you guys destroyed LLS, robbed Michael Rasmussen etc etc.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:25
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
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Jesleyh wrote:
Your edit came too late for me. But there's not really another suitable place to discuss this, is there?
Np mate, I'm gonna make a lets hate on Belkin-thread in a moment.
Mollema is boring as hell, Kruijswijk is a big disappointment, Gesink will never come close to a podium, you guys destroyed LLS, robbed Michael Rasmussen etc etc.
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:26
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Riis123 wrote:
Jesleyh wrote:
Your edit came too late for me. But there's not really another suitable place to discuss this, is there?
Np mate, I'm gonna make a lets hate on Belkin-thread in a moment.
Mollema is boring as hell, Kruijswijk is a big disappointment, Gesink will never come close to a podium, you guys destroyed LLS, robbed Michael Rasmussen etc etc.
Okay, fine.
Have a nice day mate 
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:28
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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admirschleck wrote:
Please do not say that Kelderman attacks more than Aru. That's just ridiculous and it's far from the thruth. Aru is currently one of rare guys in peloton that is ready to attack in every moment of the race. Sometimes, these attacks cost him indeed, but we're not talking about that now.
Aru is a massive talent and rode a fantastic Giro but first off: There were two riders who were willing to attack in the Giro peloton at every moment and those guys were Pierre Rolland and - to lesser way extent - Domenico Pozzovivo in the first half of the Giro (Not even sure if I'd include Pozzovivo, hm).
Aru had two brilliant moments: His stage win where he attacked a few kilometers from the finish (hardly anything to name him such a brave attacker), and the Mountain Time Trial, where he mostly attacked our hearts. I remember him to have a good move on one of the earlier MT stages, but that move of his was more a response to Pozzovivo or so.
But Kelderman also had a similiar moments of brilliance as stated by Jesleyh. They just wern't so successful.
Granted, I basically only know him because of the Giro but looking at PCS stats, it looks like you are really, really overestimating Aru because of his great Giro here and define & hype him as a rider and force him into a role, that may not even be him in later years, and one that he is certainly isn't right now (one of the most attacking riders in the peloton).
Edited by Shonak on 13-06-2014 19:30
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:28
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Jesleyh wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
Jesleyh wrote:
Your edit came too late for me. But there's not really another suitable place to discuss this, is there?
Np mate, I'm gonna make a lets hate on Belkin-thread in a moment.
Mollema is boring as hell, Kruijswijk is a big disappointment, Gesink will never come close to a podium, you guys destroyed LLS, robbed Michael Rasmussen etc etc.
Okay, fine.
Have a nice day mate
Oh come on, I am clearly joking. No season for that attitude. |
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:31
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Team Leader
Posts: 6690
Joined: 11-10-2010
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Shonak, Aru may be anonymnous for you, but I am sure I was one of the few guys (not only!) that kept saying that the guy is going to become a beast in future even before last years Giro and during it, when he was just a domestique for Nibali. It's not like he came out of nowhere just like that.
Jesley pissed off. 
Edited by admirschleck on 13-06-2014 19:32
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:36
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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admirschleck wrote:
Shonak, Aru may be anonymnous for you, but I am sure I was one of the few guys (not only!) that kept saying that the guy is going to become a beast in future even before last years Giro and during it, when he was just a domestique for Nibali. It's not like he came out of nowhere just like that.
Jesley pissed off.
It doesnt surprise me. Every time you mention Belkin or some of their riders, they are ready to defend them at every possibility, even though you are just screwing around and even praised Kelderman as a future GC rider with the talent to win someday..... |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:36
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Attitude? Pissed off ?
Not really actually, I just didn't have time and motivation for a new discussion.
Why bother?
I just want to watch football
@Riis No need to react like that either. I didn't mean it like you think I did after all
Edited by Jesleyh on 13-06-2014 19:39
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:50
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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I didn't say Aru came out of nowhere and I knew him before. But I never followed his career before the Giro.
I just don't see him as "one of rare guys in peloton that is ready to attack in every moment of the race", because he certainly has not shown this (at least not that I have seen it). It takes more than a few kilometers alone to convince me of that fact.
Be it as it may, gotta watch football.
Edited by Shonak on 13-06-2014 19:50
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| MrUfo87 |
Posted on 15-06-2014 16:11
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2803
Joined: 06-01-2012
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According to Sporza (Belgian broadcast) Gerrans has to leave Orica at the end of the season because he's too expensive.
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 15-06-2014 16:17
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World Champion
Posts: 11971
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MrUfo87 wrote:
According to Sporza (Belgian broadcast) Gerrans has to leave Orica at the end of the season because he's too expensive.
making room for Wiggins or more likely Kelderman?
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| Strydz |
Posted on 15-06-2014 16:18
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Team Leader
Posts: 5894
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SSJ2Luigi wrote:
MrUfo87 wrote:
According to Sporza (Belgian broadcast) Gerrans has to leave Orica at the end of the season because he's too expensive.
making room for Wiggins or more likely Kelderman?
That would be a huge surprise if it turns out to be true
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| CountArach |
Posted on 15-06-2014 16:37
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8290
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MrUfo87 wrote:
According to Sporza (Belgian broadcast) Gerrans has to leave Orica at the end of the season because he's too expensive.
That's really weird, because I thought Orica had one of the bigger budgets out there.
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