PCM.daily - Discussion Forum: Mountains and the peloton

#121

Posted on 28-07-2012 20:11

Junior Rider

Posts: 45
Joined: 12-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00

For those who have normal AI, how many riders do you have in the top of every mountain in TDF stage of Sybelles?

roturn

#122

Posted on 28-07-2012 20:17

Team Manager

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PCM$: 3900.00

Riders will decide if it`s worth to spend energy on a stage where they won`t have a chance. So a non GC rider with no chance on a stage final might save energy by joining the gruppetto.
At least this was announced as feature.

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#123

Posted on 28-07-2012 20:22

Junior Rider

Posts: 45
Joined: 12-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00

roturn wrote:
Riders will decide if it`s worth to spend energy on a stage where they won`t have a chance. So a non GC rider with no chance on a stage final might save energy by joining the gruppetto.
At least this was announced as feature.

Indeed it was, but if i dont relay guys like Cav, Greipel and Goss are capable of hanging with the peloton when the climbs are on the first half of the race, even HC's.

#124

Posted on 28-07-2012 20:36

Protected Rider

Posts: 1467
Joined: 21-05-2011
PCM$: 200.00

YEAH, I think I fixed it. I was on the edge of installing PCM 2011 back but I decide to reinstall PCM 2012 first and see what happens whit the AI. I also reinstalled Patch 1.3.0.0 and turned the multiplayer passive AI off (thanks to roturn). After that I played the tour stage to La Tousuire. and this are the results.

Spoiler

1	Bradley Wiggins	Sky Pro Cycling	4h54'14
2	AndrÃ© Stark	Radiocash - Sun	s.t.
3	Alberto Contador	Team Saxo Bank	+ 9
4	Jurgen Van den Broeck	Lotto Belisol	+ 20
5	Chris Froome	Sky Pro Cycling	s.t.
6	Pierre Rolland	Team Europcar	s.t.
7	Cape Erwans	COM Cycling Team	s.t.
8	Franco Stark	Radiocash - Sun	s.t.
9	Thibaut Pinot	FDJ-BigMat	+ 1'05
10	Bauke Mollema	Rabobank Cycling Team	+ 1'30
11	Samuel SÃ¡nchez	Euskaltel Euskadi	+ 1'53
12	Omar Zopeldia	Radiocash - Sun	s.t.
13	JÃ©rÃ´me Coppel	Saur - Sojasun	+ 2'16
14	Andrew Klassden	Radiocash - Sun	s.t.
15	Levi Loipheimer	O'Mega Forme - Tax	s.t.
16	Wout Poels	Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team	s.t.
17	Rein Taaramae	Cofidis, Le CrÃ©dit en Ligne	s.t.
18	Jean-Christophe PÃ©raud	Ag2r La Mondiale	+ 2'38
19	Roman Kreuziger	Astana Pro Team	+ 3'26
20	Denis Menchov	Katusha Team	+ 3'47
21	Jelle Vanendert	Lotto Belisol	s.t.
22	Robert Gesink	Rabobank Cycling Team	s.t.
23	Janez Brajkovic	Astana Pro Team	+ 4'03
24	Michael Rogers	Sky Pro Cycling	s.t.
25	Joaquin Rodriguez	Katusha Team	s.t.
26	Christophe Riblon	Ag2r La Mondiale	+ 5'03
27	Kyle Harper	Radiocash - Sun	s.t.
28	Hubert Dupont	Ag2r La Mondiale	s.t.
29	Vincenzo Nibali	Liquigas-Cannondale	s.t.
30	Daniel Moreno	Katusha Team	+ 5'15
31	Dan Meurtime	Gamin - Gouda	s.t.
32	Mikel Nieve	Euskaltel Euskadi	+ 8'41
33	John Gadret	Ag2r La Mondiale	s.t.
34	Nicolas Roche	Ag2r La Mondiale	s.t.
35	Chris Lo Moval	Gamin - Gouda	s.t.
36	David Arroyo	Movistar Team	s.t.
37	Nairo Quintana	Movistar Team	s.t.
38	David MoncoutiÃ©	Cofidis, Le CrÃ©dit en Ligne	s.t.
39	Kanstantsin Siutsou	Sky Pro Cycling	s.t.
40	Peter Valits	O'Mega Forme - Tax	s.t.
41	Arnold Jeannesson	FDJ-BigMat	s.t.
42	Thomas Voeckler	Team Europcar	+ 9'33
43	Max Comfort	Radiocash - Sun	s.t.
44	Michele Scarponi	Lampre-ISD	s.t.
45	Sandy Casar	FDJ-BigMat	s.t.
46	Ion Izagirre	Euskaltel Euskadi	s.t.
47	Richie Porte	Sky Pro Cycling	s.t.
48	Tomas Daniels	Gamin - Gouda	s.t.
49	JÃ©rÃ©my Roy	FDJ-BigMat	s.t.
50	Rui Costa	Movistar Team	s.t.
51	RÃ©mi Pauriol	FDJ-BigMat	s.t.
52	Tony Mirtin	O'Mega Forme - Tax	s.t.
53	Laurens Ten Dam	Rabobank Cycling Team	s.t.
54	Wilco Kelderman	Rabobank Cycling Team	s.t.
55	Daniel Navarro Garcia	Team Saxo Bank	s.t.
56	Chris Anker SÃ¸rensen	Team Saxo Bank	s.t.
57	Yohan Choppin	COM Cycling Team	s.t.
58	Kevin Da Weert	O'Mega Forme - Tax	s.t.
59	Kevin Seeldraeyers	Astana Pro Team	s.t.
60	Francesco Masciarelli	Astana Pro Team	s.t.
61	Mauro Pinerolli	COM Cycling Team	s.t.
62	Lars Petter Nordhaug	Sky Pro Cycling	s.t.
63	Nicki SÃ¸rensen	Team Saxo Bank	s.t.
64	Piet Stathena	Gamin - Gouda	+ 10'18
65	Sylvester Szmyd	Liquigas-Cannondale	s.t.
66	Cameron Meyer	Orica-GreenEDGE	s.t.
67	Eros Capecchi	Liquigas-Cannondale	s.t.
68	Maxime MÃ©derel	Saur - Sojasun	s.t.
69	Simon Spilak	Katusha Team	s.t.
70	Matthy Frunky	COM Cycling Team	s.t.
71	Lainus Gordoman	Radiocash - Sun	s.t.
72	Guillaume Levarlet	Saur - Sojasun	s.t.
73	Bart De Clercq	Lotto Belisol	s.t.
74	Fabio Carbonara	Radiocash - Sun	s.t.
75	Brice Feillu	Saur - Sojasun	s.t.
76	Christophe Kern	Team Europcar	s.t.
77	Przemyslaw Niemiec	Lampre-ISD	s.t.
78	Volodimir Gustov	Team Saxo Bank	s.t.
79	Francis De Greef	Lotto Belisol	s.t.
80	Giampaolo Caruso	Katusha Team	s.t.
81	Marco Marzano	Lampre-ISD	s.t.
82	RubÃ©n Plaza	Movistar Team	s.t.
83	Rob Ruijgh	Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team	s.t.
84	Stevie Monravito	COM Cycling Team	s.t.
85	Andrey Zeits	Astana Pro Team	+ 10'52
86	Marzio Bruseghin	Movistar Team	s.t.
87	Paolo Tiralongo	Astana Pro Team	s.t.
88	Juan Manuel GÃ¡rate	Rabobank Cycling Team	s.t.
89	AmzraÃ«l Moineau	COM Cycling Team	s.t.
90	Vasil Kiryienka	Movistar Team	s.t.
91	Vladimir Gusev	Katusha Team	s.t.
92	Bruno Pires	Team Saxo Bank	s.t.
93	Michael Albasini	Orica-GreenEDGE	s.t.
94	Damiano Caruso	Liquigas-Cannondale	+ 11'23
95	Anthony Charteau	Team Europcar	s.t.
96	Egoi MartÃnez	Euskaltel Euskadi	s.t.
97	Sergey Lagutin	Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team	s.t.
98	Christophe Vanderveulen	Gamin - Gouda	s.t.
99	Jonathan Hivert	Saur - Sojasun	s.t.
100	Javier Moreno Bazan	Movistar Team	s.t.
101	RÃ©my Di Gregorio	Cofidis, Le CrÃ©dit en Ligne	s.t.
102	Matteo Carrara	Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team	s.t.
103	Sergio Paulinho	Team Saxo Bank	+ 12'13
104	Fredrik Kessiakoff	Astana Pro Team	s.t.
105	JÃ¼rgen Van De Walle	Lotto Belisol	s.t.
106	Maxime Bouet	Ag2r La Mondiale	s.t.
107	Davide Malacarne	Team Europcar	s.t.
108	Blel Kadri	Ag2r La Mondiale	s.t.
109	Cayetano Jose Sarmiento	Liquigas-Cannondale	+ 14'38
110	Rinaldo Nocentini	Ag2r La Mondiale	s.t.
111	Geoff Huncopy	COM Cycling Team	s.t.
112	Cyril Gautier	Team Europcar	s.t.
113	Kristijan Koren	Liquigas-Cannondale	s.t.
114	Simone Ponzi	Astana Pro Team	s.t.
115	Matteo Tosatto	Team Saxo Bank	+ 16'43
116	Joost Van Leijen	Lotto Belisol	s.t.
117	Moreno Moser	Liquigas-Cannondale	s.t.
118	Filip Gillou	COM Cycling Team	+ 18'30
119	Tom Jelte Slagter	Rabobank Cycling Team	s.t.
120	Luis Angel Mate	Cofidis, Le CrÃ©dit en Ligne	+ 20'37
121	Gorka Verdugo	Euskaltel Euskadi	s.t.
122	Nicolas Vogondy	Cofidis, Le CrÃ©dit en Ligne	s.t.
123	Yannick Talabardon	Saur - Sojasun	s.t.
124	Fabrice Jeandesboz	Saur - Sojasun	s.t.
125	Pieter Weening	Orica-GreenEDGE	s.t.
126	Diego Ulissi	Lampre-ISD	s.t.
127	Mickael Buffaz	Cofidis, Le CrÃ©dit en Ligne	s.t.
128	Jojo Vanspringeren	Gamin - Gouda	s.t.
129	Egoitz Garcia Etxegibel	Cofidis, Le CrÃ©dit en Ligne	s.t.
130	Dries Dovenyns	O'Mega Forme - Tax	s.t.
131	Leonardo Bertagnolli	Lampre-ISD	s.t.
132	Lieuwe Westra	Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team	s.t.
133	Pierrick FÃ©drigo	FDJ-BigMat	s.t.
134	Ãngel Vicioso	Katusha Team	s.t.
135	Luis LeÃ³n SÃ¡nchez	Rabobank Cycling Team	s.t.
136	Valerio Agnoli	Liquigas-Cannondale	s.t.
137	Tor Hushaved	COM Cycling Team	s.t.
138	Simone Stortoni	Lampre-ISD	s.t.
139	Johnny Hoogerland	Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team	s.t.
140	Olivier Kaisen	Lotto Belisol	s.t.
141	Amets Txurruka	Euskaltel Euskadi	s.t.
142	Alexandre Geniez	Team Argos-Shimano	s.t.
143	Sylvain Chovanel	O'Mega Forme - Tax	+ 23'11
144	Daniele Pietropolli	Lampre-ISD	s.t.
145	David Le Lay	Saur - Sojasun	+ 24'39
146	Xavier Florencio	Katusha Team	s.t.
147	Simon Gerrans	Orica-GreenEDGE	s.t.
148	Tomasz Marczynski	Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team	s.t.
149	Mikel Landa	Euskaltel Euskadi	s.t.
150	JosÃ© Joaquin Rojas Gil	Movistar Team	s.t.
151	Frederik Willems	Lotto Belisol	s.t.
152	Romain Sicard	Euskaltel Euskadi	+ 27'18
153	Julien Simon	Saur - Sojasun	s.t.
154	Damien Monier	Cofidis, Le CrÃ©dit en Ligne	s.t.
155	Svein Tuft	Orica-GreenEDGE	s.t.
156	Christian Meier	Orica-GreenEDGE	s.t.
157	Francisco Ventoso	Movistar Team	s.t.
158	Simon Clarke	Orica-GreenEDGE	s.t.
159	Enrico Gasparotto	Astana Pro Team	s.t.
160	Matthew Goss	Orica-GreenEDGE	s.t.
161	Anthony Roux	FDJ-BigMat	s.t.
162	Manuele Mori	Lampre-ISD	s.t.
163	BjÃ¶rn Leukemans	Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team	s.t.
164	Oscar Freire	Katusha Team	s.t.
165	Danilo Buenattini	Radiocash - Sun	s.t.
166	Karsten Kroon	Team Saxo Bank	s.t.
167	Mathieu Perget	Ag2r La Mondiale	s.t.
168	Johannes FrÃ¶hlinger	Team Argos-Shimano	s.t.
169	Mark Cavendish	Sky Pro Cycling	s.t.
170	Davide Appollonio	Sky Pro Cycling	s.t.
171	Yohann GÃ¨ne	Team Europcar	s.t.
172	Yann Huguet	Team Argos-Shimano	s.t.
173	Pablo Urtasun	Euskaltel Euskadi	+ 32'36
174	Hans Howcher	Gamin - Gouda	s.t.
175	Alessandro Petacchi	Lampre-ISD	s.t.
176	Tomas Vaitkus	Orica-GreenEDGE	s.t.
177	Leonardo Duque	Cofidis, Le CrÃ©dit en Ligne	s.t.
178	Bert Grubsch	O'Mega Forme - Tax	s.t.
179	Romain Feillu	Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team	s.t.
180	Robbie Honker	Gamin - Gouda	s.t.
181	Bernhard Eisel	Sky Pro Cycling	s.t.
182	SaÃ¯d Haddou	Team Europcar	s.t.
183	Elia Viviani	Liquigas-Cannondale	s.t.

Its a realistic result if you asked me (at least better then 80 men at the finish). One bad thing is that most off the riders are in the peloton after the first climb and it was HC, but I think I can live with that

.
Can't wait for the final PCM daily DB so that I can begin with my story

Edited by PCM rulezz on 28-07-2012 20:39

Winners never quit, quitters never win.

It's difficult not to be happy when you're surrounded by Belgians. - Mark Cavendish

#125

Posted on 28-07-2012 20:42

Junior Rider

Posts: 45
Joined: 12-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00

PCM rulezz wrote:
YEAH, I think I fixed it. I was on the edge of installing PCM 2011 back but I decide to reinstall PCM 2012 first and see what happens whit the AI. I also reinstalled Patch 1.3.0.0 and turned the multiplayer passive AI off (thanks to roturn). After that I played the tour stage to La Tousuire. and this are the results.

Its a realistic result if you asked me (at least better then 80 men at the finish). One bad thing is that most off the riders are in the peloton after the first climb and it was HC, but I think I can live with that

.
Can't wait for the final PCM daily DB so that I can begin with my story

I get results like that, but tell me, in the first two climbs did many riders drop?

#126

Posted on 28-07-2012 20:47

Protected Rider

Posts: 1467
Joined: 21-05-2011
PCM$: 200.00

Not really no. There were still 50-60 man at the foot of the last climb and than the big favorites set the tempo and a lot of riders could follow them.
Most of the sprinters came over the first climb and on the second climb must of them lost contact together with the weaker climbers.

Winners never quit, quitters never win.

It's difficult not to be happy when you're surrounded by Belgians. - Mark Cavendish

franki28

#127

Posted on 28-07-2012 20:50

Stagiare

Posts: 236
Joined: 27-02-2010
PCM$: 200.00

Of course there is selection in a mountain stage. The only problem i have is that i can't make selection by putting a pace. Fro exemple, in La Toissure, i control the peloton at 75 for the first climb(HC) and no one drops. So at ~7,5kms there are 197 riders in the peloton. However, i did finish with a realistic result because when the GC contenders attack, there is a selection made and we can drop Bos

So even if in the end, the results are realistic, the race isn't. To have 197 riders in a peloton after one HC and a half is simply ridiculous.

Edited by franki28 on 28-07-2012 20:50

#128

Posted on 28-07-2012 20:53

Junior Rider

Posts: 45
Joined: 12-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00

franki28 wrote:
Of course there is selection in a mountain stage. The only problem i have is that i can't make selection by putting a pace. Fro exemple, in La Toissure, i control the peloton at 75 for the first climb(HC) and no one drops. So at ~7,5kms there are 197 riders in the peloton. However, i did finish with a realistic result because when the GC contenders attack, there is a selection made and we can drop Bos

So even if in the end, the results are realistic, the race isn't. To have 197 riders in a peloton after one HC and a half is simply ridiculous.

Exactly, that's my problem.
In the end i have results that look like the real ones, but i try to set the pace from the beginning and noone gets dropped, and thats a little bit unreal

#129

Posted on 28-07-2012 20:54

Protected Rider

Posts: 1467
Joined: 21-05-2011
PCM$: 200.00

So even if in the end, the results are realistic, the race isn't. To have 197 riders in a peloton after one HC and a half is simply ridiculous.

I agree with that. Most of the selection came after the second HC climb at the stage I played.

Winners never quit, quitters never win.

It's difficult not to be happy when you're surrounded by Belgians. - Mark Cavendish

CrueTrue

#130

Posted on 29-07-2012 00:23

Tour de France Champion

Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00

PCM rulezz wrote:
I have tried with 2 databases: PCM daily and RSM database. Both are messed up. I'm currently re-installing PCM 2011. But thanks for the help anyway.
I'm sick of PCM 2012

You should use the OfficialRelease to test. The DBs might be to blame.

#131

Posted on 29-07-2012 00:29

Junior Rider

Posts: 45
Joined: 12-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00

I've tried that already, and still get similar results.

In career it seems to be better, but its extremely hard to get rid of the sprinters if the mountains are in the initial kilometers, as the Sybelles stage of the tour.
In the end we get good results, but rarely there's a group of the best climbers ( the top10) before the last climb reaches its half.

SweatyViking

#132

Posted on 29-07-2012 10:17

Protected Rider

Posts: 1040
Joined: 19-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00

Something else worth mentioning: If you are playing as Sky or Radioshack YOU are the strongest teams and it is partly your responsibility to set the pace in the mountains..

#133

Posted on 29-07-2012 10:21

Protected Rider

Posts: 1467
Joined: 21-05-2011
PCM$: 200.00

CrueTrue wrote:

PCM rulezz wrote:
I have tried with 2 databases: PCM daily and RSM database. Both are messed up. I'm currently re-installing PCM 2011. But thanks for the help anyway.
I'm sick of PCM 2012

You should use the OfficialRelease to test. The DBs might be to blame.

I have tried that after re-installing the game and the results are quite realistic. But as diogo288 said is extremely hard to get rid of the sprinter in the begin of the stage.
But anyway the game is more playable after patch 1.3.0.0 than before so I'm quite happy with it.

Winners never quit, quitters never win.

It's difficult not to be happy when you're surrounded by Belgians. - Mark Cavendish

Lachi

#134

Posted on 29-07-2012 10:57

Grand Tour Champion

Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00

It is not possible that the game is 100% similar to real cycling. I guess it would cause to many DNF if the sprinters would have been dropped at the first climb. And finally it does not matter if the sprinter still save energy for the following flat stages.

totty86steaua

#135

Posted on 29-07-2012 11:05

Junior Rider

Posts: 35
Joined: 21-06-2008
PCM$: 200.00

Lachi wrote:
It is not possible that the game is 100% similar to real cycling. I guess it would cause to many DNF if the sprinters would have been dropped at the first climb. And finally it does not matter if the sprinter still save energy for the following flat stages.

True . If this rider from last results posted here , 173 Pablo Urtasun Euskaltel Euskadi + 32'36 , will be off on the first climb he will go to 45' or even more so will be very big chance to DNF .

SweatyViking

#136

Posted on 29-07-2012 11:26

Protected Rider

Posts: 1040
Joined: 19-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00

The DNF system is awful, too. In PCM riders who are struggling on every stage are still in the race and will not abandon unless they crash or get outside the time limit. I'd love to see in PCM 13 riders who crash, but reach the finish line but don't start the next day, or riders who have been struggling for several days, riders abandoning for other reasons than crashes, etc.

tellico

#137

Posted on 29-07-2012 16:08

Neo-Pro

Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00

OK, something is really f...d up. Before 1.3.0.0 i played on 1.1.3.0 and all looks good. After last release i install 1.3.0.0 and PCM Daily DB. I know, to test official DB is needed etc. But this cant be DB.
Short story: climbing stage on Tour of Oman, leader Daniel Martin MO=77, HILL=77, RES=75, last gregario C.Meyer MO=HILL=73. All stage both are protected, Marin by Fenn, Meyer by Matthews. When last climb is started both on dot with 59% effort gradually increased to 75%. When bodyguards drops then Meyer protect Martin. Bodyguards on maintain position with ca 60% eff. All have similar fitness (88-92).
Martin have free effort 75% and could not lose anyone. Matthews (only 61 MO! and all stage as bodyguard, green bar half, yellow almost none) stay close all the time. And look at the speed, all riders have 4-5km/h on 10% slope?!:

img525.imageshack.us/img525/5956/pcm0002s.th.jpg

When I noticed that I put Matthews to free effort and he starts began to outstrip Martin! Look at screen and compare to previous:

img210.imageshack.us/img210/7563/pcm0004qg.th.jpg

Just 2,5km before finish when all starts attacks and sprints, peloton began to pull. Stage won by Simon Gerrans and Breschel was 4th (66MO).

img805.imageshack.us/img805/7581/pcm0005m.th.jpg

On the paper all looks quite look: Gerrans, Martin, Vorganov, T.Martin... Maybe yours simulations (when you do not anything) results are good beacause on the finish only favorits attacks BUT if you want PLAY this evidently something is wrong.
C'mon, Martin pedaled like mad and Matthews (61MO vs 77MO!) just went after him just because he was in the peloton and after 3km climbs just passed him! And all 4km/h...

Lachi

#138

Posted on 29-07-2012 16:22

Grand Tour Champion

Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00

I am pretty sure that the MO stat is not used in this stage. Therefore it makes no sense to compare the MO stats of your riders.