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PCM.daily DB Stats discussion
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| jph27 |
Posted on 30-05-2014 10:51
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Team Leader
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jph27 wrote:
Taking 2 minutes off the gaps at the end of the Stelvio stage
1 Quintana
2 Hesjedal +58
3 Rolland +1'03
4 Aru +1'19
5 Majka +2'26
6 Uran +2'27
7 Pozzovivo +2'38
8 Evans +4'37
Will try to work out where Kelderman would be.
Discounting gaps from the TTT and TT, plus taking away the 2 minutes gained on the Stelvio descent you get the GC based on just the climbs:
Quintana
Hesjedal +1'20
Rolland +1'27
Aru +1'34
Pozzovivo +2'21
Majka +3'05
Kelderman +3'09
Uran +3'12
Evans +4'54
Kiserlovski +5'20 |
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| Jorge14 |
Posted on 31-05-2014 16:20
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Stagiare
Posts: 184
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PCM$: 200.00
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Stats mountain after Giro sugestions? |
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| gotlandrules |
Posted on 31-05-2014 16:27
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Protected Rider
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What are the current stats on the giroriders?
edit: the top climbers that is, not all the riders 
Edited by gotlandrules on 31-05-2014 16:31
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| dev4ever |
Posted on 31-05-2014 20:56
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Small Tour Specialist
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When is the post Giro-update coming? If it is comming before pcm14? 
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 31-05-2014 22:57
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
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dev4ever wrote:
When is the post Giro-update coming? If it is comming before pcm14?
Currently evaluating some of my rider stats from the Giro. Out of interest what do people think the climbing stats of Vuillemoz should be?, |
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| Naskela |
Posted on 31-05-2014 23:19
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Stagiare
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Tafiolmo wrote:
dev4ever wrote:
When is the post Giro-update coming? If it is comming before pcm14?
Currently evaluating some of my rider stats from the Giro. Out of interest what do people think the climbing stats of Vuillemoz should be?,
it will be interesting to see, he have done his job well this season especially his work for Peraud in the Criteritum but i think he will get 74MO stat in the coming db personally i think he is 75 maybe im just biased about AG2R 
AG2R La Mondiale / Issy Paris Hand / Le Havre AC
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 22:56
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| sgdanny |
Posted on 31-05-2014 23:19
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Classics Specialist
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Tafiolmo wrote:
dev4ever wrote:
When is the post Giro-update coming? If it is comming before pcm14?
Currently evaluating some of my rider stats from the Giro. Out of interest what do people think the climbing stats of Vuillemoz should be?,
I think it should be around the 75, and he is still young so he will probably improve enough over the years
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 31-05-2014 23:25
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
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PCM$: 200.00
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@Naskela and Danny
He's at 72 both mtn and hill in mine but I know that's too low now. I was thinking of 74/75 even before you both posted.
Also I think Aru is quite a hard stat to get right as well. There's the temptation to give him a high mountain stat of around 78/79 but I still have him at 77. Also his acc needs to be improved I think and his rec seems low at 73 and maybe should be around 76. He looked jaded on Zoncolan today (hardly surprising) but has showed he's a strong 3 week rider so rec should be good. Also not sure about his tt. Didn't do great in the tt that Uran won but then won up the Grappa (but that's more mountain stat I guess anyway) |
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| Naskela |
Posted on 31-05-2014 23:44
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Stagiare
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that's a difficult one have been thinking of stats for Aru and Rolland like crazy these last couple of days i would probably put them both at 78 but Aru with better back up stats, he is still young so i wouldn't put 79 on him yet, he never really shown any good TTs in any big races so for me he is borderline to 72.
Edit: Rolland to 77 is ofc plausible
Edited by Naskela on 31-05-2014 23:55
AG2R La Mondiale / Issy Paris Hand / Le Havre AC
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 31-05-2014 23:55
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World Champion
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Vuilermoz is a definitely 75 (76 is not that crazy, 12th for a domestique is well impressive) . Rolland and Aru likely to be both 78.
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| gotlandrules |
Posted on 01-06-2014 00:03
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The rest of the top-10? and have you followed the Sagan-debate?
And there is no way to make someone better on steep climbs/hills in comparison to not so steep? thinking of Poels who seems to be alot stronger the steeper it gets, been like that the whole season from what ive seen.
Edited by gotlandrules on 01-06-2014 00:04
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 01-06-2014 00:10
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World Champion
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Well I'll let you know rest of top 10 when it's decided, but there isn't much surprises. Quintana above Uran who is above Majka, Pozzo, Aru, Rolland who are above Kelderman Evans Kiser.
I've listen to the Sagan debate, and understand both side points. Sagan sometimes fails too deliver in some hilly classics, but then again he beat likes of Purito and Nibali one freakishly steep gradients in Tirreno hilly stages. It' s a hard one. Atm he has dropped down one too 77. But nothing is set in stone.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 01-06-2014 00:12
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
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Aru's tt wasn't great the other but Grappa was great but that's loaded up for mtn stat anyway.
As I have them at the moment in my DB for mtn:
Quintana 82
Uran 79
Aru 78
Rolland 78
Pozzovivo 78
Majka 78
Evans 77
Hesjedal 77 (with high ftr stat)
Basso 77 (I'm biased as I've always been a big fan)
Kelderman 76 (even though this might be a bit low)
Kiserlovski 76
But I also work a lot of secondary stats like acc and rec as well.
@Gotland Rules:
This is one of the big problems in the game, in that it doesn't recognize different types of climbers ie. those that like very steep gradient and those like a steady climb.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 01-06-2014 00:15
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| gotlandrules |
Posted on 01-06-2014 00:14
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Okey, sounds reasonable. How about the Hill-stats for the GC-guys?
edit: Basso should be nowhere near 77, probably 74-75. Poels at 76 or even 77?
Edited by gotlandrules on 01-06-2014 00:16
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 01-06-2014 00:16
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Sprinter
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gotlandrules wrote:
Okey, sounds reasonable. How about the Hill-stats for the GC-guys?
There not so important for big tours.
Basso no way 74-75 I won't allow it!!!!!!!!!
Edited by Tafiolmo on 01-06-2014 00:16
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| gotlandrules |
Posted on 01-06-2014 00:16
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Tafiolmo wrote:
gotlandrules wrote:
Okey, sounds reasonable. How about the Hill-stats for the GC-guys?
There not so important for big tours.
I just find that the hill stats are often too high for the GC guys, they can all compete and get top-10s and even better in the ardennes in the game.
Edited by gotlandrules on 01-06-2014 00:18
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 01-06-2014 00:21
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
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gotlandrules wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
gotlandrules wrote:
Okey, sounds reasonable. How about the Hill-stats for the GC-guys?
There not so important for big tours.
I just find that the hill stats are often too high for the GC guys, they can all compete and get top-10s and even better in the ardennes in the game.
The problem is that so many riders have high hill stats too many of 79 and 80 etc, which is why we get this mad rush to the bottom of the final climb in most of the Ardennes classics (like in real life) which makes them super boring now . I try to be as diverse as I can and less generous in my DB on hill stats to make hilly classics like the Ardennes more exciting to play as they should be and used to be. |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 01-06-2014 00:56
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World Champion
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Tafiolmo wrote:
gotlandrules wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
gotlandrules wrote:
Okey, sounds reasonable. How about the Hill-stats for the GC-guys?
There not so important for big tours.
I just find that the hill stats are often too high for the GC guys, they can all compete and get top-10s and even better in the ardennes in the game.
The problem is that so many riders have high hill stats too many of 79 and 80 etc, which is why we get this mad rush to the bottom of the final climb in most of the Ardennes classics (like in real life) which makes them super boring now . I try to be as diverse as I can and less generous in my DB on hill stats to make hilly classics like the Ardennes more exciting to play as they should be and used to be.
the problem is that some GC riders are also quite good on the hills and you cant just give them stats for better GT results, when irl they are also getting results in hilly races. Pais Vasco for example. Quintana, Hesjedal, Uran and Evans, (used to be) good on hills and that I know for sure and that needs to be considered too
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| Anderis |
Posted on 01-06-2014 12:22
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Domestique
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The problem with hill stat for GC contenders in GTs is that hilly stages are sometimes selective and create significant gaps in this game. If you put too low hill stats for some GC riders, they will be losing GTs on hilly stages instead of big mountain. And you can't simply lower hill stats for climbers like Dan Martin, Purito or Valverde because (in their top form) they're always a factor in hilly races.
I find the current balance in skills about right.
I think Sagan should be 76 HI. 75 is probably too low, considering he had some very good results in pure hilly races, like 3rd in AGR. But 78 makes him sometimes the only rider mixing up with top5 GC contenders in the medium-mountain stages in GTs. That's unrealistic. I think I've already written about that here.
I hope you don't forget to upgrade Poljanski, Sebastian Henao after Giro. Wellens perhaps also deserves some kind of upgrade in mountain. And Marc Goos, he was often next to Kelderman when most of other riders were already dropped. And Juul-Jensen perhaps deserves slightly more than 64 MO. He was 61st on a stage to Zoncolan and 54th on a stage to Val Martello. Preidler perhaps more than 68 MO as well after finishing 29th overall. I don't mention top10 guys because I trust that you know what to do with them.
And Basso. I don't think he deserves 77 MO and 75 REC any longer. Either 76 MO or 77 MO with much lowered REC. Perhaps 76 MO, because 77 with low REC would still make him too big factor in some one-week races.
Edited by Anderis on 01-06-2014 12:26
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 01-06-2014 12:25
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Sprinter
Posts: 1765
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Anderis wrote:
The problem with hill stat for GC contenders in GTs is that hilly stages are sometimes selective and create significant gaps in this game. If you put too low hill stats for some GC riders, they will be losing GTs on hilly stages instead of big mountain. And you can't simply lower hill stats for climbers like Dan Martin, Purito or Valverde because (in their top form) they're always a factor in hilly races.
I find the current balance in skills about right.
I think Sagan should be 76 HI. 75 is probably too low, considering he had some very good results in pure hilly races, like 3rd in AGR. But 78 makes him sometimes the only rider mixing up with top5 GC contenders in the medium-mountain stages in GTs. That's unrealistic. I think I've already written about that here.
I hope you don't forget to upgrade Poljanski, Sebastian Henao after Giro. Wellens perhaps also deserves some kind of upgrade in mountain. And Marc Goos, he was often next to Kelderman when most of other riders were already dropped. And Juul-Jensen perhaps deserves slightly more than 64 MO. He was 61st on a stage to Zoncolan and 54th on a stage to Val Martello. Preidler perhaps more than 68 MO as well after finishing 29th overall. I don't mention top10 guys because I trust that you know what to do with them.
And Basso. I don't think he deserves 77 MO and 75 REC any longer. Either 76 MO or 77 MO with much lowered REC.
Goos and Kelderman deserve some upgrade indeed, especially also their potential imo. Also somebody like Vuillermoz deserves more MO. |
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