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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 18-04-2015 22:52
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Sprinter
Posts: 1961
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Paul23 wrote:
Tell that the frenchies. For them, the polka-dot jersey is almost as good as the yellow one.
That's because it's the only jersey that they have any chance of winning. |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 18-04-2015 22:52
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
Yes you are right but winning the green jersey and wiinning the TDF is different. Winning the TDF has more importance and it ask for a lot more work.
Well the green jersey is for the most consistent sprinter/best finisher over a full three weeks and so therefore the winner doesn't need to be the best sprinter. It's for a sprinter that can climb and not get eliminated and still be strong in the third week, so for a flatman it's a very hard jersey to win and holds more prestige than the polka dot jersey.
All time record is Erik Zabel with 6 wins, so Sagan is doing pretty well on 3 wins.
I know but don't forget it was harder in the time of Zabel to win the green jersey and nowadays it's losing its meaning. Sagan might win it another year I bet on it, but his team doesn't need him to win a green jersey again but to win and get monument. You don't necessarily need to be a sprinter with climb to win it because mark Cavendish won it once and he isn't a good climber at all for a sprinter. |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 18-04-2015 22:54
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Paul23 wrote:
Tell that the frenchies. For them, the polka-dot jersey is almost as good as the yellow one.
That's because it's the only jersey that they have any chance of winning.
Pinot won white last year. #justsaying
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 18-04-2015 23:09
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Sprinter
Posts: 1961
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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fidjim2013 wrote:
I know but don't forget it was harder in the time of Zabel to win the green jersey and nowadays it's losing its meaning. Sagan might win it another year I bet on it, but his team doesn't need him to win a green jersey again but to win and get monument. You don't necessarily need to be a sprinter with climb to win it because mark Cavendish won it once and he isn't a good climber at all for a sprinter.
Sure Sagan needs Monuments more than green jerseys, but just saying that it's still an achievement.
@Cio and maybe this July he might be able to trade it for a yellow one. |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 18-04-2015 23:19
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
I know but don't forget it was harder in the time of Zabel to win the green jersey and nowadays it's losing its meaning. Sagan might win it another year I bet on it, but his team doesn't need him to win a green jersey again but to win and get monument. You don't necessarily need to be a sprinter with climb to win it because mark Cavendish won it once and he isn't a good climber at all for a sprinter.
Sure Sagan needs Monuments more than green jerseys, but just saying that it's still an achievement.
@Cio and maybe this July he might be able to trade it for a yellow one.
He's going to need a lot of luck to trade it for a yellow one |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 18-04-2015 23:19
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
I know but don't forget it was harder in the time of Zabel to win the green jersey and nowadays it's losing its meaning. Sagan might win it another year I bet on it, but his team doesn't need him to win a green jersey again but to win and get monument. You don't necessarily need to be a sprinter with climb to win it because mark Cavendish won it once and he isn't a good climber at all for a sprinter.
Sure Sagan needs Monuments more than green jerseys, but just saying that it's still an achievement.
@Cio and maybe this July he might be able to trade it for a yellow one.
He's going to need a lot of luck to trade it for a yellow one |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 18-04-2015 23:43
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Sprinter
Posts: 1961
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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fidjim2013 wrote:
He's going to need a lot of luck to trade it for a yellow one
There's always a chance that Froome, Contador, Quintana and Nibali could all crash out on the cobbles, a rainy descent or in a freak crash. Then Pinot would be a favourite as he's only have to hold off riders like Bauke Mollema. |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 19-04-2015 00:09
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
He's going to need a lot of luck to trade it for a yellow one
There's always a chance that Froome, Contador, Quintana and Nibali could all crash out on the cobbles, a rainy descent or in a freak crash. Then Pinot would be a favourite as he's only have to hold off riders like Bauke Mollema.
The chance are slim that all of them would crash and in the same Tour. It's not like they don't have riding skills and will crash at any moment. I wouldn't exaggerate but Pinot probably got no chance of winning. Last year he finished 3rd but he was like over 7 min behind Nibali and if Froome and Contador didn't crash he would have finished at the best 5th and same thing for J-C Peraud. |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 19-04-2015 00:16
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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What STA has Dege atm? He should have the same as Kristoff if you ask me. If you win 2 Monuments in one year, you need to have extremly good endurance. Also like someone already said. Sagans HI stat needs to get lowered as well. If you look at Sagan, you can see, that he hasn't got the power up short hills anymore(hence i question his high ACC stat) In my career he always wins LBL.
Also, it could be that my career is just weird, but why is Stannard always finishing top3 in Roubaix. Happened 3 years in a row for me...
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 29-09-2024 18:43
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Bot Agent
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 19-04-2015 01:07
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Paul23 wrote:
What STA has Dege atm? He should have the same as Kristoff if you ask me. If you win 2 Monuments in one year, you need to have extremly good endurance. Also like someone already said. Sagans HI stat needs to get lowered as well. If you look at Sagan, you can see, that he hasn't got the power up short hills anymore(hence i question his high ACC stat) In my career he always wins LBL.
Also, it could be that my career is just weird, but why is Stannard always finishing top3 in Roubaix. Happened 3 years in a row for me...
Degenkolb is 77 atm in PCM daily db but it hasn't been update yet.
BTW how much in cobble is Stannard in your career. ?
Edited by fidjim2013 on 19-04-2015 01:08
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 19-04-2015 01:14
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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Stannard is 78 COB
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 19-04-2015 01:32
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Paul23 wrote:
Stannard is 78 COB
That's funny how the IA is able to control stannard and get top 3's in Roubaix because it would be quite hard for a user. You would probably need multiple attempt. |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 19-04-2015 01:53
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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fidjim2013 wrote:
Paul23 wrote:
Stannard is 78 COB
That's funny how the IA is able to control stannard and get top 3's in Roubaix because it would be quite hard for a user. You would probably need multiple attempt.
I barely beat him 2 times in a sprint with Degenkolb who has 83 COB(3rd season)
The other time(1st season) I attacked with Terpstra(81 COB) on the Carrefour de l'Arbre and i dropped everyone but Stannard and Leukemans 
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 19-04-2015 02:00
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Paul23 wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
Paul23 wrote:
Stannard is 78 COB
That's funny how the IA is able to control stannard and get top 3's in Roubaix because it would be quite hard for a user. You would probably need multiple attempt.
I barely beat him 2 times in a sprint with Degenkolb who has 83 COB(3rd season)
The other time(1st season) I attacked with Terpstra(81 COB) on the Carrefour de l'Arbre and i dropped everyone but Stannard and Leukemans
I guess Degenkolb is maxed out at 83 in cobbles because he's got quite a progression right there. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 19-04-2015 06:27
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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fidjim2013 wrote:
I know but don't forget it was harder in the time of Zabel to win the green jersey and nowadays it's losing its meaning.
Wait,what? The competition has the exact same prestige it had 20 years back, maybe more when the winner is not so sure EPO user it was back in 90s.
What is changing (and i am not sure you are aware of it, because majority of your posts look like you have seen like two cycling races in your life) are the rules for the competition.
Before 2011 iirc it was actually changed to favour Cavendish, but they didnt know that just a year after they will have to see the start of the dominating streak of Sagans three wins, so now they are changing it another time, as they want it more of an competition, so likes of Kittel or Greipel can have a shot too. Degenkolb or Kristoff could maybe challenge Sagan also with the old rules, as the things and qualities stands right now. I am far from betting on Sagan winning it again actually (but i hope for it). 
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 19-04-2015 06:34
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-04-2015 09:09
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18168
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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@Avin - Was changed in 2010 for Cav's, because winning 6 stages and not the Green jersey was hilarious, and then Petacchi took it so they changed it again for Cav's for 2011. Sagan benefited from that because he would really go for the big points at IS's whilst many sprinters didn't really care that much. Peter would then be consistently in the Top5 in sprints and job done, excellent way to win the jersey whilst others focused solely on wins (or so they claim  )
Now more generally:
I think Sagan is viewed more critically because he's gone from such a position of strength and results. He drop is a lot more noticeable than a rider who went from 5th's to 10th's even if the numerical difference is the same as from 1st to 5th. Sagan doesn't have that edge or instinct or drive it seems this year. Big paycheck cashed and checkedout somewhat to my eyes.
But as per usual in here it's arguments over relatively small changes in really well known riders. 79 or 80 in the grand scheme is a minor change that it would be easier to make in your own game than try to argue the change here, certainly it would be quicker to do!
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 19-04-2015 13:25
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Sprinter
Posts: 1961
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Yer the green jersey is still as prestigious today and all the sprinters want to win it. The big three targets for a sprinter are 1) Milan-San Remo 2) Final stage of the Tour and 3) The green jersey.
@Paul Well I put Degenkolb at 79 stamina, one behind Kristoff who has 80, but he does have a higher cobble stat than Kristoff to gain back that lost point. Sometimes when I think riders are exactly the same, I try and find some difference to stop them being exactly the same in the stats. But to be fair Degenkolb and Kristoff are so similar as riders.
@Manx Half the fun of this stat thread, is all of us debating over single points, just be grateful that .5 points don't exist. |
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| Kiserlovski01 |
Posted on 19-04-2015 21:38
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4046
Joined: 26-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Due to an outdated database, I'm still looking for accurate stats for:
- Sam Bennett (+potential level?)
- Niccolo Bonifazio (+potential level?)
- Sacha Modolo (backup stats?)
- Davide Cimolai (+potential level?)
Edited by Kiserlovski01 on 19-04-2015 21:49
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 19-04-2015 21:48
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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Ok, what did we learn out of the AGR?
That Matthews needs a higher HI stat.
That no-one else can match Gilberts pace uphill.
But to change something, we need to wait until LBL is done.
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 19-04-2015 21:49
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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M. Paterski need a push in hills, 73/74??? |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
