Ollfardh wrote:
Making Stybar and Terpstra too high also means Boonen will work for them. Not the realistic race we're aiming for.

fidjim2013 wrote:


I agree completely because in the game boonen will be a domestique while in the real life this problem won't happen. All of them should be 80

Tafiolmo wrote:

@Paul The problem with Etixx is very simple, they have too many leaders and too many cards to play which leaves them with some complex tactics. The nearest team to them in strength and style at the cobble classics were Sky who were as strong as they were, but Sky always had one true leader in Thomas (even though Wiggins was equal for PR) and didn't have to choose between Terpstra, Stybar and even Vandenbergh at times, and just imagine if Boonen had been riding as well!

Whereas teams like Katusha and Giant have one simple main goal and that is to put Kristoff and Degenkolb into a winning position, which makes for a much easier gameplan.

Paul23 wrote:


I know this. Thats what I based my statement on.

@fidjim I never said, that you said, that Rowe or Vandenbergh had a 6th place. Don't put words into my mouth. Also Stybar crashed once in P-R while being in a 3-man leading group, where he could've won P-R. So he is not just in the dicussion because of his 2nd place. He was better than Sagan at P-R and at E3 and if it wqasn't for Terpstra, he would've been better than Sagan in RvV, too.

Tafiolmo wrote:
@Fijdm/Ollfardh/Asoutar

Remember I've suggested Terpstra as 80 and not 81. It's only Stybar that I put at 81 which was to match the 81 that GVA and Vanmarcke have, I also think he's the best cobble rider that Etixx have (not including Boonen here) and should've been their dominant leader for these races especially E3 and RvV. Terpstra might be a point less than Stybar in cobble but I have him higher in flat.

Even if Stybar is 81 and Boonen and Terpstra 80, I don't necessarily think that the last two would work for Stybar and the game AI would probably elect team leader based on current form etc.

I'd also be wary about reducing Stybar to 80 bearing in mind that Degenkolb and Kristoff have 81 and 80. As Stybar at 80 for example against Degenkolb will not only easily lose in a sprint but he will now have a point less in cobble as well. His hill stat might be higher but I don't think the hill stat is that important anyway in the cobble races.

It's also strange why you guys are picking on Stybar's cobble stat at 81, I'd say Vanmarcke would make a better target here, as here was a rider that was the undisputed leader of his team and had a team of seasoned classics men to support him, but he disappointed in all the big cobble races, whereas Stybar was a victim of team tactics and looked to me stronger when it mattered than Vanmarcke.

fidjim2013 wrote:


Putting stybar at 81 in cobbles means that he will always be the favorite in every cobble races and the game AI will put him leader of Etixx no matter what and the form of the leader is only a factor if more than 2 riders on the same team are the same stats. I mean if you put stybar at 81 and Boonen and terpstra at 80 it's logical that the AI will choose stybar to lead the team even if he had a poor form and let's not forget he's also 76 in hill so he'll always be leader.

Tafiolmo wrote:


Ok so you're suggesting this for those reasons, so if Stybar is at 80 to keep Terpstra and Boonen happy, they will all be a point behind say GVA and Vanmarcke whjo are 81 and I don't see Stybar inferior to those riders on cobbles.

Also I'm not so sure about the race favourite, as when I've played some races recently for example sprints, I expected to see Kittel as the favourite but sometimes for some reason he wasn't.

Overall we can go round and round on this and I'm going to stick with my original stats and when I play the 2015 cobble classics in my season around 3 to 4 weeks time, I'll find out how realistic they are. At the end of the day this is all subjective and we have to take into consideration the game AI as you've just mentioned as well.

Btw when I play the cobbled classic I'm going to be Etixx so I can at least avoid team leader issues etc. As I'm not including Boonen for realism I'll choose between Stybar and Terpstra as leader based on the race and daily form etc with Vandenbergh as a reserve and hopefully I won't make the same mistakes as Etixx.

Tafiolmo wrote:
I was going to say to this but Jesley beat me to it. In nearly all these races when one of the favourites from a team attacks, his teammates behind always go onto the defensive so Jesley's probably right in saying that is what would happen with the Etixx team.

fidjim2013 wrote:


Actually its right and it happens every time a team has a strong rider in the break. It happens on mountain stages too.

Tafiolmo wrote:


It's kind of too realistic, as it doesn't take into consideration a rider like Vandenbergh being silly enough to chase down his teammates.

Tafiolmo wrote:
It would only be possible if the game had for example rider intelligence for each rider, like 'tactical awareness' but I guess that will never happen as it would be too complex.

For example a rider like Gerrans would be high in it as he would wheel suck to the finish and Vandenbergh quite low, hell I remember Vandenbergh a few years ago carrying Paolini all the way to the line in the Omloop, just to have clever Paolini sprint round him at the end.

fidjim2013 wrote:


I hope that PCM 15 will have some rider intelligence because cyanide is planning to do a be a pro mode.

Tafiolmo wrote:


The thing I'd also like to see are some attempt at real faces in the game play like you have in most football games etc, doesn't have to be great detail but some likeness for in-game and the podium.

I also think Cyanide should put more work into the monuments as none of them look that great, it seems they're only interested in spending all their time on the Tour de France every year.

Tafiolmo wrote:
According to Avin, Sagan should have a cobble stat to match the other top riders which means 80/81 and he also thinks that his stamina should be one of the best between 80-82.

Avin Wargunnson wrote:

Why do you lie mate?
In reaction to your post, i was speaking only about 79-80 and i still think 80 is the absolute max for him, i have never suggested 81, so get you facts straight before writing something. His lowered stamina was a bigger issue fro me, because if there is rider that deserves big stamina in this game and sport, it is Sagan with his style of riding. In last 4 years, he was great in cycling longest races and this year, he was 4th and 4th in longest races in 2015, at Roubaix machanical stopped him from what i believe would be another top5. I would think only Cancellara, Degenkolb and Kristoff deserve better stamina in PCM, maybe some ardennes specialists too. My numbers for Sagan would thus be 80cobbles and 81 stamina. And yeah, he was not able to hold the wheel of GVA, the man that is facing the doping ban now, that is you founding stone for setting riders stats?

Also was it you who was speaking about how old are you and you started watching cycling in 90s? That is cool, my first Tour was 1994, but what does it have to do with stats discussion?

As i said, i thought your stats very generally pretty spot on, but you are making the same thing like many of the stat makers, you punish Sagan for something, that is not influencing stats of Vanmarcke for example....