Okay, i am wrong obviously. Or we are watching different races.
It is probably more about different optics on Cavendish, as i spent last years of my life watching him in at least 50% of his stages.
Strange is,why every discussion about Cav, his future and past (or his team) is about how good or bad train he had in there, or how good train he is going to have in next team. I suppose we can skip this part next time, as he is the worlds top sprinter without a train.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
You can say what you want, but green jersey can be won without a sprint train, or with only one lead-out man. But you have to know how to win it without a great train. Something that Greipel or Cavendish will never know.
These two need five or six men to support them in the Tour, or they fail in battle for green, or is there something to prove me wrong on this?
grrr..even more wrong again
Thanks for very detailed and reasonable debate.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 04-04-2013 14:43
Pellizotti2 wrote:
I'm surprised that people think that Cavendish can't win without a train, tbh. He's one of the absolute best at doing that, imo.
Here, for example:
In the stage you posted, Eisel and Boasson Hagen are bringing him to the perfect position with some 700 metres left. Rest is fantastic work from Cavendish. But i am talking about sprinters who have nobody to help in last three kilometers or so.
Sagan won the green jersey for two reasons. The first was the number of hilly stages that suited him. The second was Cavendish not having full support.
There are plenty of examples of Cavendish winning thanks to a good train. There are also plenty of examples of Cavendish winning on his own. Having a train makes things easier of course. I would say Cavendish doesn't need a train to win, but when he has a working train he is pretty much unbeatable.
Greipel needs a train to win. If his Lotto-train is doing well, he's pretty strong, and only Cav popping out of his wheel can beat him in my opinion. As he did in the Tour this year. Greipel without a good train, he can win, but I can't think of that many victories like that.
Sagan is good, but he isn't a top sprinter, he only won the green jersey because of the uphill finishes and mistakes from his competitors. He is pretty good at taking care of himself though. He just lacks the top speed other riders have. Giving Sagan a train won't help him much.
Of course he can win without a train, otherwise he would be an almost worthless rider. But he's less effective than most sprinters without a train.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Strange is,why every discussion about Cav, his future and past (or his team) is about how good or bad train he had in there, or how good train he is going to have in next team. I suppose we can skip this part next time, as he is the worlds top sprinter without a train.
Simple. If he gets a good train, he's (almost) unbeatable in flat stages. If he doesn't, he's still the top favourite.
Edited by kumazan on 04-04-2013 15:19
Of course he can win without a train, otherwise he would be an almost worthless rider. But he's less effective than most sprinters without a train.
Greipel is definitely a sprinter who needs a train.
With the HTC-train he had 14 victories in 2008, 19 in 2009 and 21 in 2010.
When he came to Omega Pharma-Lotto he had only 8 victories, and when Lotto-Belisol worked on his sprint train, he had 20 victories again.
Wilier wrote: Circuit de la Sarthe - Pays de la Loire, Stage 5
1
Francis Mourey
FDJ
4h19'20"
2
Lloyd Mondory
Ag2r - La Mondiale
From the brief TV footage I caught, the finish was a long curve, and Mondory, who started sprinting from behind, tried to pass where there was no room : on the inside, so he waved his arm at Mourey (or at the judges), but apparently in vain. The images didn't last long enough to tell whether Mourey was at fault there.
Edited by Aquarius on 06-04-2013 16:27
Groenewegen vs. Zabel might be one of the big duels in a few year's time, though too many young sprinters are currently around to make them stand out, I fear.
Edited by cio93 on 06-04-2013 16:39
GP Pino Cerami (mass sprint)
