|
Vuelta a Espana 2010
|
| ruben |
Posted on 09-09-2010 10:45
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
mb2612 wrote:
Ruben you are being quite harsh on a guy who has got better in every Grand Tour he has ridden in, to say he is never going to win one before he has even started to plateau is stupid especially as the this yearrs Giro he was only beaten by his teammate and someone in a 12 minute break. That's almost a victory right there.
As for what makes him special, yeah the ability to hang on to better climbers, because one year they are not that much better than you and you beat them in the time trial. Also his decending, there are always finishes at the bottom of climbs and if he can steal 30 seconds here and there then he is definately a favourite to win a Grand Tour over the next few years.
Also, as far as Anton goes, yeah it was an impressive ride, but he beat Tondo by 10 seconds, thats not the performance of the third best climber in the world. Anton may well be alone on the step below Schleck and Contador, but until he shows that he is better than Sammy Sanchez, Menchov, Gesink, Basso, Rodriguez, Nibali, Evans, Ricco and Scarponi I remain unconvinced.
The time gap is deceiving because it was an easy climb.
Last time they went to Pal, 7 guys finished together (favorites/strong climbers).
I'm not harsch about Nibali, it's just a feeling. And usually it turns out my feeling is pretty much spot on.
How do you explain it? If you watch races closely and pay attention to certain details, you stop believing in a guy to win GT's. Although I never believed Nibali to be a GT winner. Maybe a Giro once if they avoid the super cols like Zoncolan...
What kind of details? The style of climbing, the results in the TT, the general feeling I get from that decides wether I do or do not believe in him.
Edited by ruben on 09-09-2010 10:47
|
| |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 09-09-2010 11:04
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
For once I don't agree with you Ruben.
You can't tell how much he'll improve. Right now he's a good climber and average in the TT, so he won't win a GT. But he can win in the future if he improves enough.
He's been around forever, so people forget he's only 25.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
|
| |
|
|
| mb2612 |
Posted on 09-09-2010 11:14
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5759
Joined: 18-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
ruben wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
Ruben you are being quite harsh on a guy who has got better in every Grand Tour he has ridden in, to say he is never going to win one before he has even started to plateau is stupid especially as the this yearrs Giro he was only beaten by his teammate and someone in a 12 minute break. That's almost a victory right there.
As for what makes him special, yeah the ability to hang on to better climbers, because one year they are not that much better than you and you beat them in the time trial. Also his decending, there are always finishes at the bottom of climbs and if he can steal 30 seconds here and there then he is definately a favourite to win a Grand Tour over the next few years.
Also, as far as Anton goes, yeah it was an impressive ride, but he beat Tondo by 10 seconds, thats not the performance of the third best climber in the world. Anton may well be alone on the step below Schleck and Contador, but until he shows that he is better than Sammy Sanchez, Menchov, Gesink, Basso, Rodriguez, Nibali, Evans, Ricco and Scarponi I remain unconvinced.
The time gap is deceiving because it was an easy climb.
Last time they went to Pal, 7 guys finished together (favorites/strong climbers).
I'm not harsch about Nibali, it's just a feeling. And usually it turns out my feeling is pretty much spot on.
How do you explain it? If you watch races closely and pay attention to certain details, you stop believing in a guy to win GT's. Although I never believed Nibali to be a GT winner. Maybe a Giro once if they avoid the super cols like Zoncolan...
What kind of details? The style of climbing, the results in the TT, the general feeling I get from that decides wether I do or do not believe in him.
I don't know, had Basso been working for him he probably would have won the Giro this year, and I can easily see Basso focusing on the tour next year, giving Nibali leadership for the Giro, where he would probably be th top favourite.
Sure he might not win next year, but he has 8 years before he starts to decline probably so that gives him 12 or so Grand Tours, at his current level I reckon the odds are on him to win at least one of them.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
| |
|
|
| kumazan |
Posted on 09-09-2010 11:29
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6662
Joined: 02-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
mb2612 wrote:
I don't know, had Basso been working for him he probably would have won the Giro this year, and I can easily see Basso focusing on the tour next year, giving Nibali leadership for the Giro, where he would probably be th top favourite.
Sure he might not win next year, but he has 8 years before he starts to decline probably so that gives him 12 or so Grand Tours, at his current level I reckon the odds are on him to win at least one of them.
He can certainly win the Giro the next year, if the participation's as weak as this year's, and Basso focuses on the Tour. Otherwise, he'll to make a step forward if he doesn't want to retire without a GT win. |
| |
|
|
| depeche92 |
Posted on 09-09-2010 12:03
|
Domestique
Posts: 489
Joined: 24-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
You speak as if Anton had already won the Vuelta. Yesterday was the most intelligent, but I dont think Nibali is weaker in the mountains, if he had not followed Rodriguez and Mosquera, would come with Anton or a few seconds ...
Anton has never proven he can win GC. Nibali came third in the Giro, and 7 in the previous year Tour.
However, we will see who is right Sunday and Monday |
| |
|
|
| ruben |
Posted on 09-09-2010 12:52
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
On more difficult mountains like the ones that follow Nibali will only lose more time to Anton.
This was an easy climb, a gradual 6,5% climb that should have actually suited Nibali the best...
And STILL Anton won, and STILL Anton took almost half a minut (23 seconds) + bonis.
What do you think will happen on a real climb???
Your argument that Nibali can climb as well as Anton is based on nothing.
Edited by ruben on 09-09-2010 12:52
|
| |
|
|
| Timmeh |
Posted on 09-09-2010 13:14
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 267
Joined: 18-06-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
As you said yourself, this was only the first test. We'll see how it'll be on the climb to the Lagos de Covadonga and the Bola del Mundo. You can say what you want about Anton now, but we can only make conclusions at the end of the Vuelta. 
(Which does not want to say that i think Anton's a bad climber, just wait till the end of the race before counting your chickens ) |
| |
|
|
| depeche92 |
Posted on 09-09-2010 13:20
|
Domestique
Posts: 489
Joined: 24-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Your argoment is basing on 23 second gap: nothing (10 of this he lost in final metres). |
| |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 09-09-2010 13:26
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Also remember that RodrÃguez and Nibali have had tremendously long seasons where they've been having good results from the start.
While Antón and Mosquera are on their second peak only. They're much fresher.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
|
| |
|
|
| HansiBoyo |
Posted on 09-09-2010 13:50
|
Stagiare
Posts: 195
Joined: 27-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
I really hope Mosquera can go on the podium. It would be a nice end to his career.
Well he may ride to 2012 but I think this year is going to be the best.
The Heroes: Domenico Pozzovivo & Igor Antón Hernandez
|
| |
|
|
| HansiBoyo |
Posted on 09-09-2010 14:26
|
Stagiare
Posts: 195
Joined: 27-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Big breakaway today:
Markus Eichler (Milram), Perrig Quemeneur (Bbox), Gustavo Cesar (Xacobeo Galicia), Lars Ytting Bak (HTC-Columbia), Antonio Piedra (Andalucia CajaSur), Biel Kadri (AG2R), David Garcia (Xacobeo Galicia), Marco Marzano (Lampre) and Gustavo Rodriguez (Xacobeo Galicia)
3 Xacobeo men!
The Heroes: Domenico Pozzovivo & Igor Antón Hernandez
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 26-11-2024 09:42
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| roturn |
Posted on 09-09-2010 14:29
|
Team Manager
Posts: 22246
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
|
They really want one stage win. With Veloso they probably have their biggest chance. But not necessarily today.
At the moment it looks like a mass sprint.
Maybe Cavendish time??? |
| |
|
|
| Timmeh |
Posted on 09-09-2010 14:30
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 267
Joined: 18-06-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
HansiBoyo wrote:
Big breakaway today:
Markus Eichler (Milram), Perrig Quemeneur (Bbox), Gustavo Cesar (Xacobeo Galicia), Lars Ytting Bak (HTC-Columbia), Antonio Piedra (Andalucia CajaSur), Biel Kadri (AG2R), David Garcia (Xacobeo Galicia), Marco Marzano (Lampre) and Gustavo Rodriguez (Xacobeo Galicia)
3 Xacobeo men!
Breakaway win today? HTC won't ride for cavendish with someone in break i think.. |
| |
|
|
| Montolivo |
Posted on 09-09-2010 14:30
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1032
Joined: 16-06-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Isn't Mosquera thirty-five years old, so this should be his last moments. |
| |
|
|
| ruben |
Posted on 09-09-2010 14:31
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
No, you fail to see Mosquera started cycling late.
He is a late bloomer.
Cyclists who start late can be good deep into their thirties.
It's not the same as cyclists who are world top when they are 23..
Expect Mosquera to still be good when he is 37, so at least 3 more years |
| |
|
|
| Montolivo |
Posted on 09-09-2010 14:38
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1032
Joined: 16-06-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
ruben wrote:
No, you fail to see Mosquera started cycling late.
He is a late bloomer.
Cyclists who start late can be good deep into their thirties.
It's not the same as cyclists who are world top when they are 23..
Expect Mosquera to still be good when he is 37, so at least 3 more years
You have the definite answer i guess? 
On a serious note it could be, i don't know when he become a good GC man, but should have been 8-10 years ago as most are. |
| |
|
|
| hillis91 |
Posted on 09-09-2010 14:41
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5897
Joined: 30-11-2006
PCM$: 1500.00
|
hillis91 wrote:
Stage 12
Profile
Last 3KM
A mass-sprint finish stage? Cavendish must be hungry now.
|
| |
|
|
| HansiBoyo |
Posted on 09-09-2010 14:44
|
Stagiare
Posts: 195
Joined: 27-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Montolivo wrote:
ruben wrote:
No, you fail to see Mosquera started cycling late.
He is a late bloomer.
Cyclists who start late can be good deep into their thirties.
It's not the same as cyclists who are world top when they are 23..
Expect Mosquera to still be good when he is 37, so at least 3 more years
You have the definite answer i guess?
On a serious note it could be, i don't know when he become a good GC man, but should have been 8-10 years ago as most are.
He became GC contender in 2007 with Nr.5 in Vuelta.
The Heroes: Domenico Pozzovivo & Igor Antón Hernandez
|
| |
|
|
| Montolivo |
Posted on 09-09-2010 15:06
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1032
Joined: 16-06-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
HansiBoyo wrote:
Montolivo wrote:
ruben wrote:
No, you fail to see Mosquera started cycling late.
He is a late bloomer.
Cyclists who start late can be good deep into their thirties.
It's not the same as cyclists who are world top when they are 23..
Expect Mosquera to still be good when he is 37, so at least 3 more years
You have the definite answer i guess?
On a serious note it could be, i don't know when he become a good GC man, but should have been 8-10 years ago as most are.
He became GC contender in 2007 with Nr.5 in Vuelta.
Thought i read it somewhere, but i didn't know he came so late, so he's definitive a late bloomer. |
| |
|
|
| CrueTrue |
Posted on 09-09-2010 16:31
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Absolutely crazy lead-out by Goss. |
| |
|
