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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 24-09-2015 18:04
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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AiZaK wrote:
Tony Martin 82
Tom Dumoulin 81
Fabian Cancellara 79
Rohan Dennis 80
Vasil Kiryenka 79
Chris Froome 78
Taylor Phinney 78
Adriano Malori 79
Alex Dowsett 78
Jerome Coppel 76
Jonathan Castroviejo 77
Luis Leon Sanchez 76
In general very good but there are some points:
If Martin remains at 82 the other riders need to be moved up as well, as Martin hasn't been as dominant in TT as over previous years, in fact I think when Wiggins beat him last year in the TT it showed the others that he is human in TT and 81 might be more realistic.
Putting Dumoulin upto 81 is also dubious, he may have won the TT at the Vuelta but he didn't take anywhere near as much time out of Aru as was expected and Aru is only a 72 TT rider.
There's a lot of mention about Dennis having a great year in TT but nearly all his good results have been over shorter prologue distances of 13 to 17km. His best long TT result this year was where he finished second in the AUS nationals and that was behind Porte who is a 77 TT man. Even if Dennis hadn't had that technical yesterday he still would've finished almost a minute behind Kiryenka. Overall I would give Dennis 79 TT and 81 PR.
I agree now with Malori being 79.
Coppel could be anything between 78-76 as his performance was really a mystery.
I find you have to be careful with TT stats more than other stats, because with just three to four points difference over long TT distances the gaps between riders can run into lots of minutes.
I recently played the Giro 2015 (with that really long TT) with Astana as my team and despite riding a really good TT with Aru who is 72, my biggest rival for GT in the race Uran with 77 TT just destroyed me and the deficit was almost 4 mins and that was with 5 points of difference.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 24-09-2015 18:10
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| bob7 |
Posted on 24-09-2015 18:26
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Stagiare
Posts: 220
Joined: 27-01-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Agree, but we cannnot reduce gap beetwen riders to 1 point or even, because results will be too random. ITT and TTT are weak side of PCM. I remember, when in PCM 13, Chris Froome had 80 TT and I was playing with Saxo, and my Contador (76TT) lost 3 minutes in 50k Tour TT  There's always a problem with that and Cynide can't fix this for years.
edit:
Maybe a solution is decrease all riders by f.e. 10 points ? Did any one try this ?
Edited by bob7 on 24-09-2015 18:33
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| Unclemax |
Posted on 24-09-2015 18:30
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Amateur
Posts: 19
Joined: 06-08-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
AiZaK wrote:
Tony Martin 82
Tom Dumoulin 81
Fabian Cancellara 79
Rohan Dennis 80
Vasil Kiryenka 79
Chris Froome 78
Taylor Phinney 78
Adriano Malori 79
Alex Dowsett 78
Jerome Coppel 76
Jonathan Castroviejo 77
Luis Leon Sanchez 76
In general very good but there are some points:
If Martin remains at 82 the other riders need to be moved up as well, as Martin hasn't been as dominant in TT as over previous years, in fact I think when Wiggins beat him last year in the TT it showed the others that he is human in TT and 81 might be more realistic.
Putting Dumoulin upto 81 is also dubious, he may have won the TT at the Vuelta but he didn't take anywhere near as much time out of Aru as was expected and Aru is only a 72 TT rider.
There's a lot of mention about Dennis having a great year in TT but nearly all his good results have been over shorter prologue distances of 13 to 17km. His best long TT result this year was where he finished second in the AUS nationals and that was behind Porte who is a 77 TT man. Even if Dennis hadn't had that technical yesterday he still would've finished almost a minute behind Kiryenka. Overall I would give Dennis 79 TT and 81 PR.
I agree now with Malori being 79.
Coppel could be anything between 78-76 as his performance was really a mystery.
I find you have to be careful with TT stats more than other stats, because with just three to four points difference over long TT distances the gaps between riders can run into lots of minutes.
I recently played the Giro 2015 (with that really long TT) with Astana as my team and despite riding a really good TT with Aru who is 72, my biggest rival for GT in the race Uran with 77 TT just destroyed me and the deficit was almost 4 mins and that was with 5 points of difference.
This individual is spot on.
Especially about Wiggins: when Wiggins focussed on his goals in 2012, for example, he's beaten Martin every time.
Also in 2014: Wiggins beated Martin in the WC ITT.
My list would be:
Martin: 81
Wiggins: 81
Kiryjenka: 79
Dumoulin: 79
Malori: 79
Dennis: 78
Phinney: 78
Froome: 78
I've probably forgotten a lot of riders, but those would certainly be put at those statistics in my database. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 24-09-2015 20:15
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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@Bob- I think there is only a big problem over some of the really long TT's in this game and gives huge differences that are sometimes unrealistic.
@Unclemax- I'd keep Dumoulin at 80 as I think on form he is the second best TT rider after Martin, I'm not including Wiggins here as he's semi-retired now. |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 24-09-2015 23:47
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Yeahh, I agree with Tafiolmo, maybe better the same stats and only change Tony Martin with 81 |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 25-09-2015 13:06
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Based on different opinons this is what I have in the db now from 81-77 TT, maybe some thoughts, for example Kwiatkowski might be better at 76 as like Dennis is better at prologue imo than longer TT.
Tony Martin 81
Bradley Wiggins 81 (semi-retired)
Tom Dumoulin 80
Fabian Cancellara 79
Rohan Dennis 79
Vasil Kiryenka 79
Adriano Malori 79
Chris Froome 78
Taylor Phinney 78
Alex Dowsett 78
Jerome Cpppel 77/76
Jonathan Castroviejo 77
Rigoberto Uran 77
Alberto Contador 77
Simon Spilak 77
Tejay Van Garderen 77
Richie Porte 77
Geraint Thomas 77
Michal Kwiatkowski 77
Edited by Tafiolmo on 25-09-2015 13:16
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 25-09-2015 13:10
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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I honestly don't know why you keep Wiggins that high. He won't return and he changed his focus drastically. He rides on track and afaik, track races are no way as long as road ITTs.
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| bob7 |
Posted on 25-09-2015 13:15
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Stagiare
Posts: 220
Joined: 27-01-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Paul23 wrote:
I honestly don't know why you keep Wiggins that high. He won't return and he changed his focus drastically. He rides on track and afaik, track races are no way as long as road ITTs.
So, you put Wiggins with... ? |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 25-09-2015 13:15
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Paul23 wrote:
I honestly don't know why you keep Wiggins that high. He won't return and he changed his focus drastically. He rides on track and afaik, track races are no way as long as road ITTs.
You're probably right there, so he could be cut out of this list, I guess it's a matter of opinion. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 23:09
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 25-09-2015 13:17
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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Yes, I would cut him out. In my career, he won the WC ITT again, which will never happen again.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 25-09-2015 13:25
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Paul23 wrote:
Yes, I would cut him out. In my career, he won the WC ITT again, which will never happen again.
Hahaha that's a good reason to delete him. |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 25-09-2015 16:59
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Wiggins maybe fine with 79 |
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| thisnameisgenius |
Posted on 25-09-2015 19:49
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Amateur
Posts: 6
Joined: 15-08-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Dumoulin deserves a TT stat upgrade after beating Martin while injured. |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 25-09-2015 20:04
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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No. I will simply argue with the ardennes classics.
Tony was injured as well and worked his ass off for his team and didn't get 75 HI as well. Dumoulin is totally fine with 1 or 2 points below Tony.
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 26-09-2015 20:49
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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Fabrice Jeandesboz deserves an upgrade after coming 17th overall in La Vuelta
Also what should Majka be?79 Mo with a high REC?Or 80? |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 26-09-2015 22:06
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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The Schleck Fan wrote:
Fabrice Jeandesboz deserves an upgrade after coming 17th overall in La Vuelta
Also what should Majka be?79 Mo with a high REC?Or 80?
Well nearly all the riders who finished in similar positions in La Vuelta have 73 and 74 mtn, I think he's on 72 now.
I think it's more or less agreed by most here that Majka should be 80 mtn and 78 REC. |
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| djick |
Posted on 28-09-2015 08:07
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Free Agent
Posts: 127
Joined: 09-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Eduardo Sepulveda
https://www.cyclin...sepulveda/ |
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| miguejack |
Posted on 28-09-2015 10:56
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 321
Joined: 02-08-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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I am really not sure dude but maybe 75/76 HILLS and 73/74 MOUNTAIN ?
Costa ~ Machado ~ Quintana ~ Gallopin
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| djick |
Posted on 28-09-2015 14:06
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Free Agent
Posts: 127
Joined: 09-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Juan Sebastian Molano
https://www.cyclin...an-molano/ |
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| thisnameisgenius |
Posted on 28-09-2015 14:56
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Amateur
Posts: 6
Joined: 15-08-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Paul23 wrote:
No. I will simply argue with the ardennes classics.
Tony was injured as well and worked his ass off for his team and didn't get 75 HI as well. Dumoulin is totally fine with 1 or 2 points below Tony.
Dumoulin's injury was worse. Dumoulin's team was worse. Dumoulin's freshness was worse. He had everything against him and still beat Martin. |
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