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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 18-09-2015 16:48
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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Ian Butler wrote:
Hmm but that's more because of recuperation.
When Froome goes full retard, nobody can follow, that's what I remember. 
Also interesting to see what Landa & Aru's stats will look like. On Col du Beal(Dauphine 2014 Stage 2) Contador managed to hang onto Froome after returning to competition after Pais Vasco while Froome came from Romandie probably with a better fitness
bob7:I don't drink beer though |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 18-09-2015 16:50
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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The Schleck Fan wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Hmm but that's more because of recuperation.
When Froome goes full retard, nobody can follow, that's what I remember.
Also interesting to see what Landa & Aru's stats will look like. On Col du Beal(Dauphine 2014 Stage 2) Contador managed to hang onto Froome after returning to competition after Pais Vasco while Froome came from Romandie probably with a better fitness
Yes. But we should look at the broad view, not individual stages, I think, no?
Either way, I haven't viewed the results close enough to know for sure. I just have my gut feeling and that tells me Froome & Quintana are the two big climbers of the moment, with Contador not as he used to be but still intelligent and knows what he's doing and Nibali with good periods and worse periods.
But that's just my general feeling, don't have any real 'evidence' to back it up nor am I saying this is how it is. But how I experienced the last 2 years in cycling  |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 18-09-2015 17:03
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Ian Butler wrote:
Hmm but that's more because of recuperation.
When Froome goes full retard, nobody can follow, that's what I remember.
Also interesting to see what Landa & Aru's stats will look like. Yes Froome is a mountain beast that can run from all the others just when he wants, with human REC but it does not matter as the only means something to last in a GT and at the moment he is far ahead because his mountain POWER! For me, Froome an inhuman 85 mountain with human REC. |
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 18-09-2015 17:05
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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Ian Butler wrote:
The Schleck Fan wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Hmm but that's more because of recuperation.
When Froome goes full retard, nobody can follow, that's what I remember.
Also interesting to see what Landa & Aru's stats will look like. On Col du Beal(Dauphine 2014 Stage 2) Contador managed to hang onto Froome after returning to competition after Pais Vasco while Froome came from Romandie probably with a better fitness
Yes. But we should look at the broad view, not individual stages, I think, no?
Either way, I haven't viewed the results close enough to know for sure. I just have my gut feeling and that tells me Froome & Quintana are the two big climbers of the moment, with Contador not as he used to be but still intelligent and knows what he's doing and Nibali with good periods and worse periods.
But that's just my general feeling, don't have any real 'evidence' to back it up nor am I saying this is how it is. But how I experienced the last 2 years in cycling On the broad view Contador beated Froome and Quintana in every race in 2014.So if Conta is in great form he would be very hard to beat maybe even impossible for current riders.
Edited by Forever the Best on 18-09-2015 17:08
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 18-09-2015 17:07
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Hmm but that's more because of recuperation.
When Froome goes full retard, nobody can follow, that's what I remember.
Also interesting to see what Landa & Aru's stats will look like. Yes Froome is a mountain beast that can run from all the others just when he wants, with human REC but it does not matter as the only means something to last in a GT and at the moment he is far ahead because his mountain POWER! For me, Froome an inhuman 85 mountain with human REC. Then Contador on best form should be 86 with Nibali and Quintana in their best form also being 85 |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 18-09-2015 17:12
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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99999999999999999999999999999999 Froome
84 Quintana
83 Contador
81 Nibali
On best form
Armstrong to Froome: The Force is strong in my legs. Eddy Merckx has is, I have it. Hinault has it. You have that power too.
Edited by Arberg27 on 18-09-2015 18:16
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 18-09-2015 17:56
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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marcoplv95 wrote:
. . . . . . . . . MON HIL REC TTR
Froome . . . . 83 - 78 - 77 - 78
Quintana . . . 83 - 78 - 82 - 73
Nibali .. . . . . 82 - 79 - 83 - 75
Contador . . . 82 - 80 - 81 - 75
Aru . . . . . . . 81 - 77 - 80 - 72
Valverde . . . 81 - 82 - 74 - 71
Rodriguez . . 79 - 82 - 76 - 67
Landa . . . . . 81 - 76 - 78 - 65
Majka . . . . . 80 - 78 - 78 - 73
V.Garderen . 80 - 76 - 78 - 77
Thomas . . . .79 - 77 - 70 - 77
Porte .. . . . . 79 - 78 - 74 - 77
What do you think about these?
I've not noticed you posting stats here before but the mtn are pretty good and the same as mine except Porte who I have as 80.
Your hill stats cover a wider range which is quite good, but most GT riders don't have a hill stat though as low as 76 and I think you've given Contador a bit too high at 80.
REC stats not bad either and you've been bold in giving Valverde just 74, REC stats in general are not easy to do as so many different opinions on that and also to have any real impact in the game the differences need to be quite noticeable in the stat.
TT the only stat widely out here is that of Valverde as he's a pretty good TT rider these days and a good 74.
But as they say 'the proof is in the pudding' and if the results are realistic to you then your stats are doing their job ok. |
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| servus |
Posted on 18-09-2015 18:45
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Free Agent
Posts: 148
Joined: 19-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
marcoplv95 wrote:
. . . . . . . . . MON HIL REC TTR
Froome . . . . 83 - 78 - 77 - 78
Quintana . . . 83 - 78 - 82 - 73
Nibali .. . . . . 82 - 79 - 83 - 75
Contador . . . 82 - 80 - 81 - 75
Aru . . . . . . . 81 - 77 - 80 - 72
Valverde . . . 81 - 82 - 74 - 71
Rodriguez . . 79 - 82 - 76 - 67
Landa . . . . . 81 - 76 - 78 - 65
Majka . . . . . 80 - 78 - 78 - 73
V.Garderen . 80 - 76 - 78 - 77
Thomas . . . .79 - 77 - 70 - 77
Porte .. . . . . 79 - 78 - 74 - 77
What do you think about these?
I've not noticed you posting stats here before but the mtn are pretty good and the same as mine except Porte who I have as 80.
Your hill stats cover a wider range which is quite good, but most GT riders don't have a hill stat though as low as 76 and I think you've given Contador a bit too high at 80.
REC stats not bad either and you've been bold in giving Valverde just 74, REC stats in general are not easy to do as so many different opinions on that and also to have any real impact in the game the differences need to be quite noticeable in the stat.
TT the only stat widely out here is that of Valverde as he's a pretty good TT rider these days and a good 74.
But as they say 'the proof is in the pudding' and if the results are realistic to you then your stats are doing their job ok.
Agree |
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| Ale9200 |
Posted on 19-09-2015 00:06
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Amateur
Posts: 2
Joined: 27-08-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Contador in 100% form > others. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 02:26
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 19-09-2015 00:20
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
99999999999999999999999999999999 Froome
84 Quintana
83 Contador
81 Nibali
On best form
Armstrong to Froome: The Force is strong in my legs. Eddy Merckx has is, I have it. Hinault has it. You have that power too.
I asked you to stop the trolling Arberg. It seems, that you are not interested at an useful debate in this thread. Please stop it.
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 20-09-2015 09:33
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Trolling not. Just answer The Schleck Fan, who believe that Contador in the best form, is the same as in 2009. |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 20-09-2015 09:37
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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6 years ago, yes. No longer. Now Froome in 100% form > All others. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 20-09-2015 09:46
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
6 years ago, yes. No longer. Now Froome in 100% form > All others.
You sound quite deranged, in fact like a broken robot. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 20-09-2015 09:47
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Anyway for the rest of us, this should be a good week for stats with the WC and this year they're live on Eurosport. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 20-09-2015 09:58
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Porte deserves 80 if not 81. He is just that good of a climber, dont let the fact that he stunk it up in the Giro fool you - before that, he won 3 stage races in a row: P-N, Catalunya and Trentino, comfortably beating one of the absolute best pure climbers in the world, Mikel Landa.
Remember, Porte has had a phenomenal season apart from that Giro. On a few occasions, he has been the 2. best climber in the World during the TdF as a domestique Heras-style. Anything lover than 80 is not serious. 81 is perfect |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 20-09-2015 10:17
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Riis123 wrote:
Porte deserves 80 if not 81. He is just that good of a climber, dont let the fact that he stunk it up in the Giro fool you - before that, he won 3 stage races in a row: P-N, Catalunya and Trentino, comfortably beating one of the absolute best pure climbers in the world, Mikel Landa.
Remember, Porte has had a phenomenal season apart from that Giro. On a few occasions, he has been the 2. best climber in the World during the TdF as a domestique Heras-style. Anything lover than 80 is not serious. 81 is perfect
Nobody doubts his climbing abilty and is a good 80. The problem is he's a poor GT rider due to his REC. So is only really any good at week long races where his good TT makes him a favourite. He had a chance to prove everybody wrong about his GT ability but screwed it up at the Giro.
Whereas Landa has shown how good he is over three weeks and is better suited to GT racing imo now than week long races. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 20-09-2015 11:11
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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But the mountain stat isolated isnt about GT's, its about how you climb, in any race. Fortunately there are other stats to account for his bad recovery or whatever causes him to fuck it up everytime |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 20-09-2015 11:25
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Riis123 wrote:
But the mountain stat isolated isnt about GT's, its about how you climb, in any race. Fortunately there are other stats to account for his bad recovery or whatever causes him to fuck it up everytime
I know it's not about GT's but about actual climbing. The problem though is awarding a really high mtn stat like 81 to a rider outside a GT scenario, because normally in a GT a rider is facing other riders who are on their very best form (or should be) as in a number of week long races they're sometimes not. So it's kind of easy to know each rider's capabilities compared to the others in a GT more than it is in week long races.
In most GT's Porte hasn't been able to do this as he's been slaving away for Froome now that he's going to Cannondale next season he may finally get his chance in a GT race. Personally I don't think he's quite as good climbing a mountain like Landa but then again next season they may go head to head in that contest in a GT.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 20-09-2015 11:29
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 20-09-2015 11:28
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Agree with Riis123, REC and TT is not mountain stats. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 20-09-2015 11:45
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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We know that, but awarding an elevated mtn stat outside of a GT is not really an accurate thing to do. It's like awarding a really high hill stat to a rider outside of an Ardennes or similar classic or a really high cobble stat outside of a big cobble race.
It's like giving Froome or Martin one of the best hill and cobble stats because of how well they did in those stages at the Tour.
GT's and monuments are the absolute pinnacle of cycling ability and that's where riders earn their reputations and where the best riders look to hit their peaks. They care about other races to a degree and others take their chance in them.
For example would many people have considered giving Landa a high mtn stat before the Giro based on how he did at Trentino? Alaphilippe such a high hill stat before the Ardennes classics? or now give a rider like Viviani a really high sprint stat because he's beaten some of the best sprinters outside of a GT in a couple of races?
Edited by Tafiolmo on 20-09-2015 12:05
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