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Dekker leaves Rabobank
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| SotD |
Posted on 29-07-2008 20:48
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issoisso wrote:
Again: Gesink will ride the Vuelta, just as Dekker rode the Giro to pinpoint where they are in terms of development. THEN Gesink will switch to a support role for the Tour just as Dekker did. That is what happens with most cases of success.
Exactly how much success do you think Rabobank has had in terms of Grand Tour success? Yes, they have done stagewins, and recently green jersey, but besides that I can't remember Rabobank EVER being at the top, so how can you be so certain that their way is the way of success?
I mean, plenty of talents pop up from left and right, Rabobanks talents are always the biggest, but they never really end up in the fashion that people had expected... Nibali is almost ready for a GT I think, Kreuziger almost, Schleck and Contador has already proven it. A lot of the riders that Dekker and Gesink has been battleing with are almost ready to overtake the scene, and they have all been given a lot of space to run their own chances... |
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| SotD |
Posted on 29-07-2008 20:49
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Ruben wrote:
Gesink has more potential, but Dekker is more a winnerstype in my opinion. Gesink is just a tad too 'normal'.
champions are extravagant.
Like Sastre? |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 29-07-2008 20:50
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Both Dekker and Gesink dont have any reason at this moment act like "Ricco".
Learning..learning or they both gonna be just waching how Contador and Andy (who having well he's homework at the moment)riding away minutes.. |
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| Rinhoth |
Posted on 29-07-2008 20:54
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SotD wrote:
Exactly how much success do you think Rabobank has had in terms of Grand Tour success? Yes, they have done stagewins, and recently green jersey, but besides that I can't remember Rabobank EVER being at the top, so how can you be so certain that their way is the way of success?
They've won two Grand Tours over the past three years. okay, one was because og DQ by doper, but last year Menchov won the Vuelta quite easily.
Edited by Rinhoth on 29-07-2008 20:59
If children have the ability to ignore all odds and percentages, then maybe we can all learn from them. When you think about it, what other choice is there but to hope? We have two options, medically and emotionally: give up, or Fight Like Hell.
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| ruben |
Posted on 29-07-2008 20:56
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Yeah, Menchov won the Vuelta twice, that kinda is GT succes  |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 29-07-2008 20:56
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SotD..look here is few teams more after Astana..one of them is Rabobank..quite good |
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| SotD |
Posted on 29-07-2008 21:02
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Yeah well, that wasn't exactly what I meant, but yes that definately is succes. Menchov was bought to be a GT winner. The others are growing to be it...
to look at the CSC way, Hamilton and Basso was bought to win GT's while Schleck and Sastre was growing to be it...
And that way I really can't remember Rabobank ever doing well... Boogerd was looking like a guy who could do it, but that was a LONG time ago, and he never grew into a Tour rider (Obviously because he was a better classical rider) but the GT talents haven't grown in Rabobank as far as I know, like they have in other teams... Why? |
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| ruben |
Posted on 29-07-2008 21:26
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They barely get chances if you ask me.
Dekker, even though he proved a lot in races like Romandie, Tirreno and the classics, has got 0 zero chances as GT leader so far.
Why? Because they want to 'protect' him. Same way as they are doing with Gesink. Sure, Gesink could easily ride the Tour this year, but no, Rabo have to protect him...
Rabo is simply overprotective since the moment Wielinga failed, when they hurried him into the Tour 2003 |
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| SotD |
Posted on 29-07-2008 21:29
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Exactly my point... That was what I was trying to conclude, but issoisso seems to be of another oppinion... I believe Rabobank is nuturing their youngsters for FAR too long. Thomas Dekker was already a huge asset for the team when he became pro, and could easily ride up with the majority of the pack, now that he has grown to the next level, why on earth should they keep him there? The same goes for Gesink... Let them fail if that is what they will do... But atleast give them the chance... |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 29-07-2008 21:43
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SotD wrote:
Exactly my point... That was what I was trying to conclude, but issoisso seems to be of another oppinion... I believe Rabobank is nuturing their youngsters for FAR too long. Thomas Dekker was already a huge asset for the team when he became pro, and could easily ride up with the majority of the pack, now that he has grown to the next level, why on earth should they keep him there? The same goes for Gesink... Let them fail if that is what they will do... But atleast give them the chance...
most if not all of the big stars learned for a long time from someone else before being leaders.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
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| ruben |
Posted on 29-07-2008 21:54
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On the other side, barely any white jersey winners become Tour winners later on. Cunego, Karpets, Menchov, and some other nameless persons I forgot.
Contador was an exception, Ullrich too, but most white jersey winners turn in to nothing. So maybe it's a good thing. But when I see how much Schleck has grown thanks to being a GT leader in the Giro, I am sad Dekker didn't get the same chance. Because I don't believe Dekker is that much worse than Schleck. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 29-07-2008 21:57
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Ruben wrote:
On the other side, barely any white jersey winners become Tour winners later on. Cunego, Karpets, Menchov, and some other nameless persons I forgot.
Contador was an exception, Ullrich too, but most white jersey winners turn in to nothing. So maybe it's a good thing. But when I see how much Schleck has grown thanks to being a GT leader in the Giro, I am sad Dekker didn't get the same chance. Because I don't believe Dekker is that much worse than Schleck.
I don't think the Giro had much to do with it.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| snoep_de_hond |
Posted on 30-07-2008 01:01
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SotD wrote:
issoisso wrote:
he means which part of the post are you commenting on? there are several points to the post.
Well I can't really see it replies in any fasion to any points except one...
"They will speak with eachother next week."
"Like everyone else would, besides Boogerd.."
Does that sound like anything at all???
"But, they noticed Dekker doesn't actually like doing everything they tell him to, he likes to go his own way."
"Like everyone else would, besides Boogerd.."
This, however could be in sync... as the only part of the statement.
Yes, ok but I didn't believe someone could be of the opinion that Boogerd likes to do everything he is told. That is why I started questioning if that was what you mend.
As I see it Boogerd and Dekker are very alike. Both riders are very fanatical about their sport and are aggressive and attacking riders. They are very aware of what they need to do in a race and are not afraid to give their opinion (during and after the race). They have also become friend over the last years.
About the Vuelta. I say put both Dekker and Gesink in. But only if Dekker wants to ride. If he is not willing to share to leadership with Gesink or work for Gesink, Rabobank shouldn't bring him.
I don't see why Rabobank can not start with two guys for the GC. Look at CSC this year in the tour. |
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| SotD |
Posted on 30-07-2008 08:07
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Ruben wrote:
On the other side, barely any white jersey winners become Tour winners later on. Cunego, Karpets, Menchov, and some other nameless persons I forgot.
Contador was an exception, Ullrich too, but most white jersey winners turn in to nothing. So maybe it's a good thing. But when I see how much Schleck has grown thanks to being a GT leader in the Giro, I am sad Dekker didn't get the same chance. Because I don't believe Dekker is that much worse than Schleck.
I very much agrees with you... It happens more and more btw... We must be getting old (In case you shouldn't know, i'm Team Jøhnke from Cyanides forum, but I suppose you know )
White jerseys in the TdF from 1998 and on:
1998 Jan Ullrich - Superstar
1999 Benoit Salmon - WTF???
2000 Francisco Mancebo - Several times top 10 TdF and Vuelta
2001 Oscar Sevilla - Decent rider, never turned brilliant.
2002 Ivan Basso - Superstar
2003 Denis Menchov - Superstar
2004 Vladimir Karpets - Decent rider, never turned brilliant.
2005 Yaroslav Popovych - Decent rider, stopped growing.
2006 Damiano Cunego - Former Giro winner, now on the retrait.
2007 Alberto Contador - Superstar
Well, out of a 10 years run 4 riders has turned into what I call superstars. Riders winning or capable of winning GTs. 3 riders capable of top 5-10 GT and a couple of riders who stopped their progression, or went shit.
So I would definately call the white jersey a pinpoint for the youngsters. Andy has already done podium in the Giro and won the young riders competition in the Tour now, so imo he is also in the running to become a superstar... |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 30-07-2008 08:58
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Benoit Salmon : will retire at the end of the season. Typical of the French riders quitting dope (heavy dope at least) past 1998-1999. He was Casino's co-leader together with Vinokourov.
Very promising in his prime, never made it anywhere (top 15 in Ardennes classics were usual for him) as soon as French cycling dropped from 3rd/4th strongest one to 7th to 10th strongest one. |
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| Dan_Grr |
Posted on 30-07-2008 14:13
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Dekker and Schleck are equally gifted and they will be the titans of the future. I think they are already titans, but due to team or sponsor decisions they are being left a bit in the dark.
And about Gesink and Dekker... if I were a directeur sportif I would prefer Dekker. When in doubt, choose the one who is more confident. I always preferred more straight to the point people, like Cavendish.
I hope Dekker gets out of Rabobank into a good team that can work for him, or that he can be a co-leader of. |
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| brun sweater |
Posted on 30-07-2008 15:13
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If I was DS, I would choose whichever of those two, being in the best shape. I'm sure though, had Rabo known Dekker's form suddenly was going to drop, they would have planned to have Gesink in le Tour. |
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 01-08-2008 02:24
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SotD wrote:
2006 Damiano Cunego - Former Giro winner, now on the retrait.
I resent that, Cunego may be stuggling in the Grand Tours, but he's in my view one of the top one-day classics men in the world. |
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| ruben |
Posted on 01-08-2008 12:10
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I now know it's almost a certainty Dekker will leave Rabobank. But they are still discussing about the contract, because ofcourse, Rabobank has to 'buy out' the contract for 2009 |
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 14-08-2008 18:40
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It appears Dekker is leaving Rabobank anyway:
https://www.velonews.com/article/81735...-a-new-job
Levi would go insane if he did go to Garmin
Edited by Deadpool on 14-08-2008 18:41
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