None of them are better anyway. To be honest.
Just remembered Wiggins, but I wouldn't back him either.
I reckon he should try and do a Horner and say just ride the Vuelta, leave the Giro for Uran and then Cav can sprint the Tour. They might get 2 GTs (well 2 podiums at least) and a stage at the Tour.
Wow zabel'd twice in 1 minute.
Edited by The Hobbit on 07-11-2013 09:53
Well, with the TT and some hilly stages, Kwiat might stand a chance on a Top 10. But come on, please say that you can see that Kwiatkowski won't be the biggest threat for Froome, not even close. I mean, you just admitted he's around the 14th best climber, then you can never be Froomebot's biggest threat Edited by Jesleyh on 07-11-2013 09:59
Jesleyh wrote:
Well, with the TT and some hilly stages, Kwiat might stand a chance on a Top 10. But come on, please say that you can see that Kwiatkowski won't be the biggest threat for Froome, not even close. I mean, you just admitted he's around the 14th best climber, then you can never be Froomebot's biggest threat
I never said he was...
That's clearly Dennis Wilskracht, (follow my story)
It really depends on who's in best form, Quintana, Valverde, Rodriguez, any one could be a threat, maybe even Mollema.
@The Hobbit Sorry, thought you said that, but it was BritPCMfan.
@Alak Hmm, I think with the 2014 route, Quintana should be a bigger threat than Nibali. Especially if Quintana would develop even more, but yeah, if, if...
Anyway, it will be a nice battle for 2nd
Nibali........ Yes
Uran.......... Yes
Betancur......Maybe
Niemiec.......no
Pozzovivo..... No way
Froome
Quintana
Rodriguez
Contador
Kreuziger
Mollema
Fuglsang..... Same levelish anyway I think he's worse
Valverde
Talansky......close but not on a par GC wise.
Porte
Martin.........can't climb the high mountains as well IMO
Horner....... Not really, and he'll only get worse
Roche.........he really struggled in the high mountains, didn't deserve high vuelta place IMO
Henao...... Normally I'd mention him, but in the vuelta, stunningly disappointing
Pinot.........Uhhh good point
Sanchez......not that good, and getting worse
Evans..........see above
Scarponi.......see above
Nieve..........close but not on a GC level
Majka.........see above
25 guys there who are at his level or better.
I enjoyed that.
Kwiatkowski might become a better climber than some of those, but even as a fan you have to look at facts.
the CQ-ranking website has a very nice feature called Head 2 Head.
Just a quick rundown on mountain stage H2H's in 2013 (Kwiat is the second number)
Betancur: Never raced against each other
Niemiec: 1-7 (Granted)
Pozzovivo: 1-1 (Kwiat with the biggest win), not a huge diff.
Fuglsang: 8-0 (Far from it!)
Talansky: 4-4 (Talansky beat Kwiat in the Tour GC)
Daniel Martin: 4-4
Horner: 1-1 (You can't seriously mean that the Kwiat would have destroyed the Vuelta even worse though?)
Roche: 0-6 (Only Tour where Roche was pure domestique, not comparable IMO)
Henao: 2-1
Sánchez: 2-2 (Similar)
Evans: 0-8 (Granted)
Scarponi: Didn't race against each other on 2013 (7-0 in 2012), 4th in Giro more impressing than 11th in Tour...
Nieve: 6-2 (Definitely better climber)
Majka: Giro 7th vs Tour 11th (Not a worse GC rider at least)
So you are right in some cases, but saying that Fuglsang, Scarponi, Nieve and others are worse than Kwiatkowski simply has no hold in reality (yet at least).
Everyone assumes I'm a fan of his, I just like arguing and he's a pretty strong lad, a Wiggins type stage race (just much better on short hills). So I reckon on a good route for him. Eg this one with more TT km and hilly stages, I would fancy him to beat everyone in your post on a good day.
He's not a Wiggins type of stage-racer... He's a puncheur who can climb well and TT very well IMO. Wiggins type is climb very well, TT extremely good but kinda sucky on the hills
Edit: Wait. There's only 1 TT in the TdF 2014, you know?
(Or did I miss something?)
Edited by Jesleyh on 07-11-2013 10:50
Yeah IK, what point are you making?, oh I see the confusion. Instead of one like this one with more TTkm, it should be: one like this one but with more TT km.my bad.
Also how is someone who is a puncher who can climb and TT very well any different from what I said. A wiggins type stage race but better on the hills, so good climbing, great TTing and Even Better hills, I don't see the difference.
Edited by The Hobbit on 07-11-2013 10:58
The Hobbit wrote:
Everyone assumes I'm a fan of his, I just like arguing and he's a pretty strong lad, a Wiggins type stage race (just much better on short hills). So I reckon on a good route for him. Eg this one with more TT km and hilly stages, I would fancy him to beat everyone in your post on a good day.
People overrating a rider as massively as you do usually are a fan
You can't expect 21 "good days" in a GT and compared to e.g. Fuglsang he has yet to beat him on a mountain thus it is pure speculation on your part that Kwiatkowski will suddenly be better next year. The results speak for themselves: Several of the riders you claim are worse climbers usually beat Kwiatkowski on the mountain in 2013. That means they are in fact at the moment better climbers.
I'm not arguing against Kwiatkowski being a massive talent, I just don't think we should expect him to battle for the top GC/big mountains just yet as he has next to no results to back it up.
Does somebody know when all the Tour de France-route will be revealed and why they dont, as the Giro and the Vuelta, reveal all the stages from the start? - i am only able to find 8 stages or so.
Edited by Riis123 on 26-04-2014 22:54
