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Vuelta a Colombia Discussion
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| Rin |
Posted on 04-11-2013 13:15
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2582
Joined: 14-04-2008
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
[...]But my problem with him is honestly zero cummunication with managers, who are not reporters. We have no right to issue the gameplay problems,[...]
But all we got is "Stop that bitching" from reporters side (did not remember who adressed LLSs question as bitching) when somebody asks.
I will wait years for next report if it is the case, I just love the game (however PCM is trying to ruin that with every new edition). But a bit more of communication outside of the reporters forum would be nice, or at least let us know that we are not worth it, as the non-reporters. As we are not worth to influence the choice of PCM edition or other things...
You can always address something regarding the Man-Game as long as it is reasonable, everyone will listen to reasoned critisism.
With reasonable I don't mean "XYZ is shit" without mentioning any reason why.
If there are some disagreements it shouldn't lead to being offended but accept there are diffrences.
Plus I don't think there are really issues reporters/managers wise.
With that I mean very strong disagreements or "reporters hurrah/managers not worth" thinking, not communication.
Also it was always in the Man-Game that it will always being played with the latest PCM engine available unless there are very very heavy issues.
Otherwise if someone would have known how PCM develops, it should have stayed at PCM06.
But then there would be problems with the stages as probably there wouldn't have been enough stages to make it interesting for many many years PCM06 wasn't used.
So every single season since the 2nd one, wouldn't be that much fun to chew the same stages over and over again as the people make stages for latest PCMs and not PCM06.
 Team Bianchi - 2012 Man-Game ProContinental Tour Champions
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| aidanvn13 |
Posted on 04-11-2013 14:15
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Classics Specialist
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No, I didn't want to create the impression that SN's absence is too blame/he should get back on to make it work.
I just wanted to know whether he was still alive or not 
I'm not even involved in this race, but I do feel the same frustration as rjc. However, I also remember that nobody is getting paid or receiving any benefit off of reporting a MG race. I would love to help out with reporting, but I neither have a decent PC nor PCM13.
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| SotD |
Posted on 04-11-2013 14:28
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World Champion
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We can't expect SN to be online and running everything all the time. It's fair that SN got the full overview and the final decision and stuff like that, but in the middle of the season it should simply run without too much of a problem even if he isn't online.
To be honest I hadn't noticed his absence until one of you guys mentioned it, and to be honest I don't think that is the problem either.
What, on the other hand, is problematic is that you continue to tell yourself that you can do a sufficient job as a race reporter while it is clearly going too slow, and managers even start letting the repporters know. I don't think we are very harsh managers pointing out mistakes everytime the are there or smashing repporters in the head if the races take a bit longer than normal. But here we are going into week 6 (I think) of a race with 12 stages. That's way to much. It's slightly more than half a GT and clearly not as important. If you compare the previews of the TdF, Vuelta and Giro with this race you see that it's not of the same standard. And that's fair enough. But it also indicates that this race should not be twice as long (real time) as the second longest race of the season.
Spilak brought up the delay himself on the 29th of september - 5 days after the last stage. No one made a comment in that period of time. But after he wrote the 29th he opened up the discussion, and should probably have decided that he didn't have the time or capabilities to end the race within a decent way/time.
Another 5 days after his comment I wrote "Status?" and bling. The stage was up. Meaning that it was done, but he hadn't made/had the time to do it. Again. One must be conclussive about himself to say "Alright, I can't do this proberly. I'll let someone else look at it".
And that was a month ago. You can't tell me that fixing a stage with narrow roads takes a month to do. If that is the case then skip the race and restart it with new stages. I don't think anyone of us would bitch about that if we knew that the alternative was to get only half the race done in 5-6 weeks.
SN is not to blame here, not for his time absent, and not for the lack of communication. You have to take responsibility for the job you are doing yourself, and not just push it over on SN for not being online every time you feel for it.
IMO the savegame should be uploaded for this race for someone else to complete. It should have been 3 weeks ago, if not earlier.
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 04-11-2013 15:21
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Team Leader
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I'm not frustrated with the length of season, nor the length of gaps between races. I can wait 3 months between one race and the next. What frustrates me is to start something and not finish it within a structured time frame. If you can only do one stage every 3 days, fine, let everyone know, and we'd all just be happy we were made aware and can look forward to that 3rd day. It's the lack of communication, and the random spurts of activity and inactivity.
It's a matter of principle and my morality. I expect (very stupidly) everyone to live by similar guidelines in their lives that I lead, and it disappoints me when I'm reminded constantly that the world doesn't work like this.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]  [/url] |
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| tsmoha |
Posted on 04-11-2013 15:56
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Directeur Sportif
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rjc_43 wrote:
It's a matter of principle and my morality. I expect (very stupidly) everyone to live by similar guidelines in their lives that I lead, and it disappoints me when I'm reminded constantly that the world doesn't work like this.
That ain't stupid at all, of course this race had to be finished by now and the lack of communication is kinda frustrating, i know. Anyway, speaking of morality, there was this "rubbish", that i didn't like in your post, i wouldn't behave like that when it comes to stuff like the ManGame reporting  But like said before, if we are talking about Colombia-issue, sure, things went wrong in a way that could have been prevented.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 09-12-2025 18:27
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 04-11-2013 16:46
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Tour de France Champion
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Really interesting discussion here, perhaps should be highlighted in some way somewhere else for some more debate with managers and people who don't follow this race. I only stopped by to see why this race was still being discussed so long after it started. I had no idea that it was still running!!
What does happen with this game is that it starts to backup. One race get's delayed, so the next calendar race gets delayed, and the next race by the reported is delayed. Suddenly the game is almost stopped and will take several months to catch back up. This kills the reporters motivation, as they have to keep working long after they perhaps should of. It kills the managers motivation as nothing is happening.
One issue that i see is the detail of the reports. I know it's part of the game that each stage is written up in detail so everyone knows everything that happens, but it's time consuming. Running the stage can take two-three times as long, let alone writing it all up with the correct images and bb coding. Now some people will disagree, but the stage is not that important. Sprints, KoMs and the break yes, the finale and result of course. But the listing every attacker, puncture and crash is a lot. It fleshes out the report but it's not that necessary.
Perhaps a solution could be, like what is now happening, where the races are not so stuck in the calendar. If a reporter has the time he should be ok to just go ahead and do that race. Then after a set time he is then ok to just post the race. Some races will get knocked out of calendar sync, but overall the whole process moves faster and it can keep everyone's motivation up high.
When the game slows down as it has, and the whole game not just the race, it is a real killer. I know people have to prioritize life over PCM, that's not the issue. But it drags it out into an area where people don't have as much love and interest overall. Perhaps the game is getting too big. This year had a whole new division, which of course adds in loads more races. And more recently the Mini game, which again adds to the work load. If there are not an equal number of new reporters then perhaps these additions should not be included, or at least scaled down to a manageable level. And if people are not offering to be reporters, then think why are they not offering. They want to be part, but why not report?
Finally, SN's absence should have no impact. Once the racing begins it should be pretty self contained. Clear guides for reporters to follow. It should be self propelling and only need SN in case of serious dispute.
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| CountArach |
Posted on 05-11-2013 01:09
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8205
Joined: 14-07-2008
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TheManxMissile wrote:
One issue that i see is the detail of the reports. I know it's part of the game that each stage is written up in detail so everyone knows everything that happens, but it's time consuming. Running the stage can take two-three times as long, let alone writing it all up with the correct images and bb coding. Now some people will disagree, but the stage is not that important. Sprints, KoMs and the break yes, the finale and result of course. But the listing every attacker, puncture and crash is a lot. It fleshes out the report but it's not that necessary.
This is far from being the main issue and as I and others have said in the past when this issue was raised, the idea of shortening reports completely turns me off reporting at all. I write long and detailed reports because I genuinely enjoy writing like this, and if I were discouraged from doing so I just wouldn't report, full stop. The issue, as has been said, is people committing to thing when there is no ability to follow through on that commitment.
I will be able to return to reporting at a fairly high rate in December but until then I am on holiday and can't contribute at all.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 05-11-2013 06:26
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World Champion
Posts: 13662
Joined: 20-06-2011
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Rin wrote:
You can always address something regarding the Man-Game as long as it is reasonable, everyone will listen to reasoned critisism.
With reasonable I don't mean "XYZ is shit" without mentioning any reason why.
If there are some disagreements it shouldn't lead to being offended but accept there are diffrences.
Plus I don't think there are really issues reporters/managers wise.
With that I mean very strong disagreements or "reporters hurrah/managers not worth" thinking, not communication.
Also it was always in the Man-Game that it will always being played with the latest PCM engine available unless there are very very heavy issues.
Otherwise if someone would have known how PCM develops, it should have stayed at PCM06.
But then there would be problems with the stages as probably there wouldn't have been enough stages to make it interesting for many many years PCM06 wasn't used.
So every single season since the 2nd one, wouldn't be that much fun to chew the same stages over and over again as the people make stages for latest PCMs and not PCM06.
I was not talking about bad communication between managers only and reporters, i see everything right here and i admire all the reporters for doing the great job and sacrificing their time for our pleasure. I was rather talking about "the boss" and the managers who are not reporters relationship, but hey i am probably stretching things too far and look for problems when they are not. I just thought that in modern time,it i not problem to say on twitter (where some of us are and SN is still active there with track and rugby) or here. It would be nice and costs nothing. 
About the chance to adress the issues, i tried in the past with narrow roads issues, where fixing them brings imo more problems than leaving them there (big race delays, 150 riders sprinting together because PCM has no selection on wide roads, so managers are not damaged by dropped stars but by not selection,results are not real at all). I was also adressing the possbile big gameplay problems before switching to PCM12, both issues were maybe possibly questioned in reporters forum, dont know since that is secret society but i got no discussion about that adressed issues. Probably it was not constructive enough.
Personally, i am looking for best possible gameplay in PCM, not newest engine. But if that is the case in MG, i will remember that and will get used to it. Shame i was not told that when i adressed the issues with PCM12. I would be tearing less hair of my head, when i see season damaged by PCM12. If i was for example Kami (who got season destroyed), i would jump out of the window.
Just a note: this is not an angry post, i am loving to be part of the game and these are only thoughts about possibility to make decisions on wider scene.
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| Kami |
Posted on 05-11-2013 18:47
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3386
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
If i was for example Kami (who got season destroyed), i would jump out of the window.
It's annoying to say the least, especially since it was really unpredictable (not one of my leaders comes close to previous years points total). But i've pretty much just accepted my faith .
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| Smowz |
Posted on 10-11-2013 12:17
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Team Leader
Posts: 6386
Joined: 09-04-2009
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With regards to this race. If after in a couple of weeks or so Spilak does not return to report it - one of us will simply have to create a new save file with the riders and times put in.
It would be helpful if he does make it back to upload the save file to the managers forum so that one of us does not have to frig about with all the numbers and such. I'd imagine it is a fairly long job particularly if like me you are absolute shyte at dealing with such things.
In the meantime I can see roturn has picked up some of the slack with some excellent Avenir reporting - compared to my shamelessly weak Vineyards reporting.
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| roturn |
Posted on 10-11-2013 20:27
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Team Manager
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Smowz actually gave me the idea to use the afternoon to continue this.
So I created a new save game with the standings after the 8th stage and decided to finish the race over the next days.
So congrats to Amador here. |
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| tsmoha |
Posted on 10-11-2013 20:46
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Directeur Sportif
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Great job, roturn. Endless kudos for your work, you've put into the ManGame (most recently, but of course the whole season as well).
Can't be said enough, so I just gave it a go in this thread, too
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| Smowz |
Posted on 10-11-2013 20:49
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Team Leader
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Many thanks roturn. What a great job of work in the writing of Man game reporting (Paul Sherwin impression).
Sella so bittersweet, endlessly attacking but not rewarded. Just if one could work. Oh well cannot blame for trying.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 10-11-2013 20:55
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Thank you, roturn.
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| jph27 |
Posted on 10-11-2013 20:57
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Thanks roturn, great to see this moving again. Puma on for a windfall here. |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 10-11-2013 20:58
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World Champion
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Thanks a lot roturn indeed.
Well, it was to be expected. Machado is really increasing the pressure from behind as well.
Looks like third overall is what we have to settle for, unless VDB can keep up on stage 11 to use his small TT advantage over Machado.
That 3rd spot actually is what we definitely need as Pendleton's might get 4th and B&O 6th.
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 10-11-2013 22:17
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Incredible work roturn, thank you. Shame you couldn't get Dan Martin a win though. |
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| Roman |
Posted on 10-11-2013 22:28
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Chapeau! Thank you roturn!
Nice ride by Zdenek Stybar here, it would be great if he could take that KOM jersey home. But it will be a really hard battle for sure, another big breakaway is needed.
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| Bushwackers |
Posted on 11-11-2013 03:55
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Sprinter
Posts: 1983
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Thanks a lot roturn, that's a lot of work and it's very appreciated.
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| Rin |
Posted on 11-11-2013 08:34
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2582
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A great roturn of the Man-Game 
I didn't even know that it would be possible to write the results down to create then a save game 
Team Bianchi - 2012 Man-Game ProContinental Tour Champions
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