|
News in August
|
| BritPCMFan |
Posted on 05-08-2013 21:07
|
Stagiare
Posts: 245
Joined: 03-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
kumazan wrote:
Spilak23 wrote:
Bold idea: The top 200 riders in the individual UCI rankings should start the World Championship.
Yeah, giving Italy or Spain a 20+ riders strong team sounds like a good idea.
Imo, there are two big problems with the Worlds qualification system. One is obviously that only half season counts for it, which is stupidly absurd, and I'd love to hear a good argument supporting this. In fact, I'd love to hear an argument supporting this, even if it's not good, cause I don't think that'd be possible. The other is the WT, as its existence means that races like the TDU give as many if not more points than P-R or LBL, and that's not absurd, that's insane.
The argument would be down to prep. You cant decide worlds teams 3 days before it starts and expect riders to be fit.
Presumably then they decide it would be too confusing to take points from this years table + points earned after 15th Aug 2012 (or whenever the cutoff was last year) and hence what we have now. |
| |
|
|
| kumazan |
Posted on 05-08-2013 21:20
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6662
Joined: 02-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
As expected, that was a pretty weak argument.  How is a ranking encompassing the last 365 days any more confusing than one for the current natural year? Does the CQ ranking confuse you?
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 14:31
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| sammyt93 |
Posted on 05-08-2013 21:33
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3634
Joined: 03-07-2012
PCM$: 300.00
|
kumazan wrote:
Spilak23 wrote:
Bold idea: The top 200 riders in the individual UCI rankings should start the World Championship.
Yeah, giving Italy or Spain a 20+ riders strong team sounds like a good idea.
Imo, there are two big problems with the Worlds qualification system. One is obviously that only half season counts for it, which is stupidly absurd, and I'd love to hear a good argument supporting this. In fact, I'd love to hear an argument supporting this, even if it's not good, cause I don't think that'd be possible. The other is the WT, as its existence means that races like the TDU give as many if not more points than P-R or LBL, and that's not absurd, that's insane.
best argument I could give you is it has to be this season to stop say hesjedal winning the Vuelta then retiring and then having Canada using his points to bring a big squad when other nations would have more depth and be more deserving of the extra places as their points were scored by riders they could actually pick.
And then the cutoff has to be early so the federations know how many picks they've got.
But I don't see why you can't use a 12 month period minus reitred riders.
|
| |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 05-08-2013 21:34
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Personally I don't like rankings that are for "the past X time" involving parts of more than one season. I think you either use data from only one season or use more than one whole seasons.
Here's why: Imagine a guy aims for a race after the cutoff one year and a race before the cutoff the next. Next year both results will count and it'll look better than it was. He sacrificed two season halves for it.
Or the opposite and it'll look way worse than it did.
Edited by issoisso on 05-08-2013 21:36
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
|
| |
|
|
| kumazan |
Posted on 05-08-2013 21:49
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6662
Joined: 02-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
issoisso wrote:
Personally I don't like rankings that are for "the past X time" involving parts of more than one season. I think you either use data from only one season or use more than one whole seasons.
Here's why: Imagine a guy aims for a race after the cutoff one year and a race before the cutoff the next. Next year both results will count and it'll look better than it was. He sacrificed two season halves for it.
Or the opposite and it'll look way worse than it did.
But that can happen whenever you put the cutoff, it wouldn't matter if it involves one season or more. Let's say TJ Slagter (to name an average rider who could realistically do this) wins both TDU (just after the cutoff as it is now) and Poland (just before). Then, the result would be even more falsified, because half the season points don't count.
I think it's more fair if all races count, and as it's not possible that the races of a whole season count, unless you hold the Worlds in October, then having a 365 days raking is the best option.
And sammyt, yes of course points of retired riders wouldn't count. Points belong to the riders, not to the nations (not to forget riders can retire during the season as well, if they want). 
Edited by kumazan on 05-08-2013 21:49
|
| |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 05-08-2013 21:52
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
kumazan wrote:
But that can happen whenever you put the cutoff, it wouldn't matter if it involves one season or more. Let's say TJ Slagter (to name an average rider who could realistically do this) wins both TDU (just after the cutoff as it is now) and Poland (just before). Then, the result would be even more falsified, because half the season points don't count.
Why?
I'm saying decide like a week before the Worlds and count everything from Jan 1st. The only thing missing is Lombardia, so 95% of the season is counted. Barely any falsifying going on
EDIT: Although I guess if you insist we could maybe write some addendum to take care of Lombardia and call it 'The Angelo Lopeboselli rule'
Edited by issoisso on 05-08-2013 22:16
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
|
| |
|
|
| ruben |
Posted on 05-08-2013 22:18
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
oliver zaugg  |
| |
|
|
| kumazan |
Posted on 05-08-2013 22:34
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6662
Joined: 02-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
issoisso wrote:
kumazan wrote:
But that can happen whenever you put the cutoff, it wouldn't matter if it involves one season or more. Let's say TJ Slagter (to name an average rider who could realistically do this) wins both TDU (just after the cutoff as it is now) and Poland (just before). Then, the result would be even more falsified, because half the season points don't count.
Why?
I'm saying decide like a week before the Worlds and count everything from Jan 1st. The only thing missing is Lombardia, so 95% of the season is counted. Barely any falsifying going on
EDIT: Although I guess if you insist we could maybe write some addendum to take care of Lombardia and call it 'The Angelo Lopeboselli rule'
Yeah, that could be good as well (if including Lombardia). And let Angelo alone, he podiumed Piemonte as well.
|
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 06-08-2013 06:45
|
World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
Most fair system would be all teams with same amount of riders, those who dont have sufficient number of available riders, can start with less. Only country with reigning champion would be able to have one more rider. Something like five riders in every team.
Now the system is good only for elite countries and almost disqualifyies "lesser" countries from having a chance for the title.
It is like Tour de France where SKY would be allowed to start with 9 riders, because they are best team points wise and Euskaltel would start with 4,because they suck.
|
| |
|
|
| Ian Butler |
Posted on 06-08-2013 08:47
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
How about organizing semi-finals in the week before the WC? Everyone starts with 6 and you can earn 3 more in those semi-finals |
| |
|
|
| Lachi |
Posted on 06-08-2013 12:19
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
I am for equal team sizes as well.
But the UCI just does everything to prevent fair races. |
| |
|
|
| Alakagom |
Posted on 06-08-2013 15:48
|
World Champion
Posts: 10891
Joined: 19-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
In minor news, Estaban Chaves recovered from the injuries he suffered at the beginning of year.
My friends tells me he's looking preety fit and should be in good form hopefully for the late Italian classics.
|
| |
|
|
| krisa |
Posted on 06-08-2013 15:52
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3962
Joined: 12-04-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
why not giving everybody just five riders ( but they all need to be pro)
|
| |
|
|
| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 06-08-2013 17:38
|
World Champion
Posts: 10121
Joined: 01-05-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Alakagom wrote:
In minor news, Estaban Chaves recovered from the injuries he suffered at the beginning of year.
My friends tells me he's looking preety fit and should be in good form hopefully for the late Italian classics.
Excellent news. I seem to recall that his entire career was on the line at some point, so it's wonderful to hear that he's recovering.
|
| |
|
|
| 547984 |
Posted on 06-08-2013 20:34
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5008
Joined: 29-01-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
What's with the "cysts"? Basso and now Boonen?
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar! |
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 06-08-2013 22:12
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
What do you think the butt of somebody cycling 40 to 60 000 km a year looks like ?
That's quite a risk factor for the perineum area... |
| |
|
|
| 547984 |
Posted on 07-08-2013 00:55
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5008
Joined: 29-01-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Aquarius wrote:
What do you think the butt of somebody cycling 40 to 60 000 km a year looks like ?
That's quite a risk factor for the perineum area...
You reminded me of this.
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar! |
| |
|
|
| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 07-08-2013 01:03
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 845
Joined: 28-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
547984 wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
What do you think the butt of somebody cycling 40 to 60 000 km a year looks like ?
That's quite a risk factor for the perineum area...
You reminded me of this.
It's indeed not the first time Boonen has a "sore bum". He's very catchable for injuries anyway. |
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 07-08-2013 06:57
|
World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
547984 wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
What do you think the butt of somebody cycling 40 to 60 000 km a year looks like ?
That's quite a risk factor for the perineum area...
You reminded me of this.
I think czech triathlete and medalist from Sydney Jan Rehula suffered a much worse injury, in fact this is my nightmare about riding a bike.
After finishing his regular training regimen at home, Rehula jetted to Sydney in the winter 2001 - it was summer in Australia - to work out in gentler weather.
In January, 2001, he was riding a bike in a Sydney suburb when one of the screws holding his saddle in place snapped, sending the bike into an out-of-control spin. Rehula landed on the exposed blunt part of the saddle post, tearing abdominal muscles and provoking massive internal bleeding.
Not knowing the extent of his internal injuries, he walked away from the crash. Within hours, he was unconscious in a Sydney hospital. When doctors finally operated on him, he'd lost about 1.5 liters (3.1 pints) of blood and was listed in critical condition.
"I was fighting for my life," he says.
|
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 07-08-2013 07:10
|
World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
Peter Sagan informed about his most probable racing calendar for the rest of the year 2013, all in North America, except his biggest target, WC road race. But the course looks a bit too demanding for him.
 19.-25. August: USA Pro Cycling challenge
 3.-8. September: Tour of Alberta
13th September: GP Montreal
15th September: GP Quebec
 29 September: WC Road race
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 07-08-2013 07:11
|
| |
|
