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News in October
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 11-10-2007 00:32
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Justice is not about money.
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 11-10-2007 00:48
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Team Manager
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True, but Justice has already been done when it was finally agreed upon that he was doped
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 11-10-2007 01:00
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Grand Tour Specialist
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To each his own.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 11-10-2007 07:59
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I never saw any badly conducted antidoping test resulting in tesosterone appearing out of nowhere in a sample.
When the same appears for every single sample from one same man, whereas it does not appear in other samples from other people tested (anonymously) in the same laboratory by the same persons, well, you can hardly say it's corruption or poor science.
Then he says ridiculous things like : "doping is very widespread, it's a big problem" and "I won and I was clean".
If doping is so useless, why is it such a big problem ?  :cry: |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 11-10-2007 08:24
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Tour de France Champion
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what bothers me most is how people view these things subjectively and play favorites.
if tomorrow a swiss rider tests positive, you can be sure all swiss fans will be clamoring "he's innocent. it's a conspiracy. the tests were faulty" etc. etc. etc.
that's just an example, but if you want one that already happened, it's easy: if Landis was Canadian, Levi would just say he's doped and that would be the end of that.
there's countless examples of people out there who think "yeah, sure, everyone on team X is/was doped, but not rider Y. he's not". why? because that person likes rider Y, no doubt. and that's what bothers me the most about these cases.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 11-10-2007 08:28
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Anyway, Landis can't prove he's clean, his only way to cope with his case is to appear as a victim, which he is doing by appealing once more and crying he's innocent and the system is corrupt.
To me, saying whatever team is most likely doped or whoever rider is most likely clean isn't a matter of tastes, but a matter of interpreting various evidences.  |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 01:08
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 11-10-2007 08:29
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Team Manager
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Not necessarilly.
If Cavendish failed a drugs test tomorrow (for example) I'd be gutted but I wouldnt convince myself that the tests were faults or that he didn't do it. Id accept the fact and probably start hating him 
But I do see what you mean.
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| Dan_Grr |
Posted on 11-10-2007 10:23
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Domestique
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I don't have a problem with accepting that. I heard a portuguese rider was disqualified in the worlds for having a high value on something, I don't think he even started the race. Stupid little man. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 11-10-2007 11:18
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Tour de France Champion
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Oh well, it doesn't really matter now. On Monday, Pereiro will be given the yellow jersey as a symbol of his TdF-victory. Landis can't win anything now anyway. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 11-10-2007 12:42
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Tour de France Champion
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CrueTrue wrote:
Oh well, it doesn't really matter now. On Monday, Pereiro will be given the yellow jersey as a symbol of his TdF-victory. Landis can't win anything now anyway.
a Caisse rider, who also rode for Maia-MSS is getting his "just rewards after someone else doped". I can't help but snicker
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 11-10-2007 12:55
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Tour de France Champion
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I didn't say it was better, but at least he wasn't stupid enough to get caught |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 11-10-2007 13:12
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You mean the authorities in his country didn't and still don't want to link Urko to Operacion Puerto which led potential TDF winners to be excluded from the 2006 TDF and allowed a very likely involved rider to win it ? |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 11-10-2007 13:17
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Tour de France Champion
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 Exactly.
(Same goes for this year's TdF by the way) |
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| KurtinSC |
Posted on 11-10-2007 13:56
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Since everyone seems to have pretty strong opinions about who's doped and who isn't... what's the feeling on George Hincappie? Is he viewed as a clean rider or do people think he's a doper due to his association with Armstrong for so many years? |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 11-10-2007 14:05
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Tour de France Champion
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Well, first of all, I don't get T-Mobile at all. They want to have a strict anti doping policy, yet they are flirting with Erik Zabel and Jörg Jaksche, and have signed with George Hincapie who, as you say, was associated with Armstrong for so many years.
If Armstrong was doped (which I tend to think, yes), I have a had time believing that his main helpers such as Landis (caught), Hincapie, Heras (caught), etc. didn't know anything about it. Likewise, I also have a had time believing they weren't doped themselves.
That said, it's also worth mentioning that Hincapie never has been involved in anything as far as I know. At least, that's a plus. |
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| Stairs |
Posted on 11-10-2007 14:44
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CrueTrue wrote:
Well, first of all, I don't get T-Mobile at all. They want to have a strict anti doping policy, yet they are flirting with Erik Zabel and Jörg Jaksche, and have signed with George Hincapie who, as you say, was associated with Armstrong for so many years.
In that case, why not just ban everyone over 28 years or so - all of them have been involved in pro cycling somehow in the 90's |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 11-10-2007 14:48
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Feeling about US Postal / Discovery is that they (at least the Tour team) were prepared by Ferrari, just like Armstrong, who probably got some extras.
Ferrari is one of the very best trainer in the world, also a great dope (blood doping, and all that's related) specialist. The whole Tour de France team benefited from his services during the Armstrong years, so to me, it seems crystal clear they were doped during those 7 years. Their performances in mountains were also suspicious.
In 2006 the guys were all back to a natural level, they all lost about 30 W in the mountains (that is huge), I tend to think they were clean or almost clean during the 2006 TDF.
This year though, I didn't have that feeling, it was more like 2004 or 2005...
As CrueTrue mentionned it, I don't get T-Mobile at all. Don't they feel they're looking foolish and have no credibility when they say they're creating a new clean team but hiring people with such complex histories ? |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 11-10-2007 14:51
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Tour de France Champion
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Stairs wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
Well, first of all, I don't get T-Mobile at all. They want to have a strict anti doping policy, yet they are flirting with Erik Zabel and Jörg Jaksche, and have signed with George Hincapie who, as you say, was associated with Armstrong for so many years.
In that case, why not just ban everyone over 28 years or so - all of them have been involved in pro cycling somehow in the 90's
That wasn't what I said. All I said was that it's difficult to claim to have a strict anti-doping policy when you're about to sign riders who have admitted they were doped. |
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| ABridgeTooFar |
Posted on 11-10-2007 17:28
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Domestique
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"The whole Tour de France team benefited from his services during the Armstrong years, so to me, it seems crystal clear they were doped during those 7 years. Their performances in mountains were also suspicious."
Uh, really???? crystal clear?? Man, the UCI and WADA must really be idiots. I can live with saying that Armstrong may have been a doper or even probably was a doper but crystal clear? |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 11-10-2007 17:59
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Tour de France Champion
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ABridgeTooFar wrote:
Man, the UCI and WADA must really be idiots
actually, they've done all they can to nab him. especially the UCI, who snickers at everything Armstrong says/does and McQuaid has gone as far as saying he's "very disappointed at what Armstrong turned to be"
Edited by issoisso on 11-10-2007 17:59
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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