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How is the game then?
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| tommyboy |
Posted on 04-06-2021 18:03
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Under 23
Posts: 56
Joined: 01-09-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Someone must have bit the bullet already...
How is the new game??? |
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| undertaker |
Posted on 04-06-2021 19:09
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Under 23
Posts: 80
Joined: 19-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Judging by the videos, nothing changed from the past 3 years.
Mountain, the GC contenders attack from everywhere, and ended up climbing the last 5-4km empty of energy. If i remember correctly, this was a thing on 20, and fixed later. why this bug is still on 21? well, idk too. Easy exploitable, you only need use cursor to reach them and then leave them behind with an attack. Real, isnt it? Just shows they don't know wth they are doing.
And yet, i can't stand where they seen 10-15 riders follow an attack on last climbs of stages. probably from races that isnt broadcast on TV.
Echelons is a free win for a any GC if you go YOLO on it. AI just don't know how to ride on it, another thing implement and non tested during the process aka as usual.
AI wise, they stated changes but from the videos,i see the same thing happening in from the last editions. so idk exactly what they did, besides returning game breaking bugs that can be exploitable by the player.
Incredible how in 10 years, just 3 games are decent overall without much bugs that kill the gameplay overall. |
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| tomcat9 |
Posted on 04-06-2021 23:09
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 362
Joined: 30-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Looked at Steam reviews and I'm not surprised: even positive reviewers note that the game is almost identical to 2020 edition... f.e.:
in Spanish 1 (I don't speak Spanish so used GT): https://steamcomm...d/1453850/
in Spanish 2:
https://steamcomm...d/1453850/
pretty funny in English: https://steamcomm...d/1453850/ (If you're willing to forgive the developers like you'd forgive your crazy Uncle Joey for spiking the eggnog and then proceeding to get trashed and fall into the dining room table throwing your holiday meal all over the room completely ruining Christmas, then I suggest buying PCM21  )
Youtube & Discord channels advertisement in German:
https://steamcomm...d/1453850/
and AI issues again: https://steamcomm...d/1453850/
And that was ALL POSITIVE reviews (another three are without specifics so we won't count it).
Negative... you'd better see them yourself...
Sooo sad at first impression 
Let's save the history of PCM together!
Just write me a PM if you have something for old PCM Editions (from 2005 to 2014) - databases, stages, shirts etc. and we'll share it.
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| tomcat9 |
Posted on 05-06-2021 02:12
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 362
Joined: 30-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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undertaker wrote:
Incredible how in 10 years, just 3 games are decent overall without much bugs that kill the gameplay overall.
These are 2011 I guess and then 2012/2013 or 2014/2015 maybe? I didn't play PCM 2012, 2013 & 2015 yet, but 2016 & 2017 are awful in regard to AI as PCM 2020 too...
Let's save the history of PCM together!
Just write me a PM if you have something for old PCM Editions (from 2005 to 2014) - databases, stages, shirts etc. and we'll share it.
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| undertaker |
Posted on 05-06-2021 03:37
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Under 23
Posts: 80
Joined: 19-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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tomcat9 wrote:
undertaker wrote:
Incredible how in 10 years, just 3 games are decent overall without much bugs that kill the gameplay overall.
These are 2011 I guess and then 2012/2013 or 2014/2015 maybe? I didn't play PCM 2012, 2013 & 2015 yet, but 2016 & 2017 are awful in regard to AI as PCM 2020 too...
11, 15, 18.
A change on one of them, would be probably 18 for 13. The only thing i remember that wasn't that great on 13, was the mountains gameplay for almost be dot only, wich killed the immersion a bit. and probably one of the best years mods wise too
And since the recent ones are ugh, 18 it's the one that saved the disaster of back to back bad games (16,17) and between what released after. |
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| tobiasandersen |
Posted on 05-06-2021 09:27
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Free Agent
Posts: 125
Joined: 25-04-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Why can’t they just put more effort into this is crazy how little have changed over the years. But then again I buy every game they make so maybe that’s part of the problem. |
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| damwun |
Posted on 05-06-2021 09:59
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Amateur
Posts: 6
Joined: 03-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Does anyone have an idea what the actual sales numbers of the game? Perhaps it is so small that they don't even bother to change too much just to get a small profit.
I've bought this year game, it's been a long time since I did it. Nevertheless I don't see a lot of changes since than. It's a shame but at least we have a "proper" cycling game. |
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| damwun |
Posted on 05-06-2021 09:59
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Amateur
Posts: 6
Joined: 03-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Does anyone have an idea what are the actual sales numbers of the game? Perhaps it is so small that they don't even bother to change too much just to get a small profit.
I've bought this year game, it's been a long time since I did it. Nevertheless I don't see a lot of changes since than. It's a shame but at least we have a "proper" cycling game. |
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| tommyboy |
Posted on 05-06-2021 10:26
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Under 23
Posts: 56
Joined: 01-09-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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So sad, because game with even half realistic AI would be so much fun.
I guess it is hard to code, but could do better!! |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 21-11-2024 16:33
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| tomcat9 |
Posted on 05-06-2021 13:02
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 362
Joined: 30-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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It is not so hard but this is time-consuming and they don't think AI is in priority. Otherwise all AI issues would have been solved a long time ago. When I finally played PCM 2006 I saw how much they had been working on AI improving compared to 2005 edition. And now year by year they only promise but there's no any real work on AI unfortunately.
Let's save the history of PCM together!
Just write me a PM if you have something for old PCM Editions (from 2005 to 2014) - databases, stages, shirts etc. and we'll share it.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 05-06-2021 14:08
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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damwun wrote:
Does anyone have an idea what the actual sales numbers of the game? Perhaps it is so small that they don't even bother to change too much just to get a small profit.
I've bought this year game, it's been a long time since I did it. Nevertheless I don't see a lot of changes since than. It's a shame but at least we have a "proper" cycling game.
Sales data is always hard to get, unless you're breaking records/expectations and can shout about it positively. The fact date for PCM has always been tricky to find tells you the numbers can't be great.
PCM21 has been getting up to around 1400 peak players a day since release earlier this week. TDF21 has only been peaking at around 100 players. (these numbers are for Steam)
Of course this needs some context. TDF20 started off a bit higher, around 170-190 in the month after release, before dropping away to a consistent 30-50 through most of 2021.
PCM20 was reaching around 2000 peak in the month after release, this rose to 2500-300 in September-November 2020 (when cycling returned post-lockdowns) and then dropped down 1100 in late2020 early2021, and again rose a bit to 1500-2000 during this seasons Classics-upto now.
This is only around Players per Day, through Steam. It's not an indication of Sales, Play Time, etc. But it gives a good idea of how popular, or not, PCM/TDF is on Steam.
Now for some Nacon context, comparing that to some of their other games. Session peaked with 1000 right at launch, but has only been reaching 100 since about a week after launch.
Sherlock Holmes: The Devils Daughter has also been consistently around 100 every week since it launched in 2016.
WRC7 again between 100-200 players consistently since launch in 2018, with some big spikes to 500 at times (due to inclusion in bundle sales).
Another fun way to track user engagement is to look at Achievment/Trophy numbers! Obviously TDF is a bigger release on console than steam.
About 180 players have the achievment/trophy for "Finish a Stage". Given this is about the basic requirement of playing the game at all you'd assume only a small percentage would not do this after purchase. (i'll admit this isn't a great method as it relies on people having agreed to share these details with 3rd party trackers, but it's all we have).
Context the above on achievments/trophies - Rugby 18's most completed achievement is "Recover the ball from a ruck started by the other team", and this is completed by almost 700 people.
So what does all this mean?
On Steam, PCM does appear to be a reasonably popular game for Nacon. However TDF on console looks a long way off their bigger titles. And even then on Steam, PCM still seems a long long way off bigger games. For context Farming Simulator 2021 has around 30,000 sales. MotoGP 21 is also in the 20-50k sales range since April.
PCM, as much as we might think otherwise, is a tiny game with a relatively small customer base. And that customer based comes back year after year after year, very loyal.
I vaguely remember looking up figures a few years ago and from what i remeber numbers were bigger and stronger (well they were certainly easier to find before Nacon took over), which is also not a good sign. You really don't want your yearly sports game to have a shrinking player base.
Anyway, long post without many hard confirmed figures 
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| gunara |
Posted on 08-06-2021 10:36
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Amateur
Posts: 12
Joined: 03-04-2017
PCM$: 200.00
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I played 3 editions of the game, 2010, 2013, and 2019, I would have said there were slight improvements from one to the next .....if they were each one edition apart, but they're not! The 3D race produce more realistic results each edition, but not actually more realistic races. The transfer system tries new thing but still end up extremely unbalanced.
The good thing about such a stagnant game is the file structuring is consistent, but you only need it because the game is so broken without tweaking by users.
They need competitor, badly, but doubt anyone important is interested in cycling game.
So except there is evidence of big leap, 2 years is not enough for me to trust a worthy upgrade. |
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| tomcat9 |
Posted on 08-06-2021 10:50
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 362
Joined: 30-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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gunara wrote:
I played 3 editions of the game, 2010, 2013, and 2019, I would have said there were slight improvements from one to the next .....if they were each one edition apart, but they're not! The 3D race produce more realistic results each edition, but not actually more realistic races.
Btw, do you remember what is AI in PCM 2013? I never played it, but heard a lot this game was good enough in regard to AI.
I play sometimes PCM 2014 because of auto conrol feature. When you use it AI takes you as AI and plays honestly, but also foolish though  However that's an interesting feature that makes PCM a management game. So for me it's the major advantage of last PCM editions.
Let's save the history of PCM together!
Just write me a PM if you have something for old PCM Editions (from 2005 to 2014) - databases, stages, shirts etc. and we'll share it.
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| gunara |
Posted on 08-06-2021 11:11
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Amateur
Posts: 12
Joined: 03-04-2017
PCM$: 200.00
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tomcat9 wrote:
gunara wrote:
I played 3 editions of the game, 2010, 2013, and 2019, I would have said there were slight improvements from one to the next .....if they were each one edition apart, but they're not! The 3D race produce more realistic results each edition, but not actually more realistic races.
Btw, do you remember what is AI in PCM 2013? I never played it, but heard a lot this game was good enough in regard to AI.
I play sometimes PCM 2014 because of auto conrol feature. When you use it AI takes you as AI and plays honestly, but also foolish though However that's an interesting feature that makes PCM a management game. So for me it's the major advantage of last PCM editions.
The biggest problem with 2013 that I remember is the non-functional RES stat, the uncatchable breakaways, and the crazy cases of favourites attacking at the foot of the climb. I only thought the AI was good because I came from 2010 with its messed-up sprint stages, 2013 didn't have that problem |
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| tomcat9 |
Posted on 08-06-2021 13:24
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 362
Joined: 30-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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gunara wrote:
I only thought the AI was good because I came from 2010 with its messed-up sprint stages, 2013 didn't have that problem
I found some threads about broken sprints in PCM 2010: the sprint issue could be solved by installing patch 1.0.3.0 instead 1.0.4.2 because it was the latest patch that completely broke sprint system. So I'm going to test it. Wondering but I played with 1.0.4.2 for ten years
Let's save the history of PCM together!
Just write me a PM if you have something for old PCM Editions (from 2005 to 2014) - databases, stages, shirts etc. and we'll share it.
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| ChrisAndersen |
Posted on 16-06-2021 14:14
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Amateur
Posts: 1
Joined: 16-06-2021
PCM$: 200.00
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Fantastic.
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| tomcat9 |
Posted on 16-06-2021 15:04
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 362
Joined: 30-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Any specifics, please? I still believe in some improvements in the 2021 edition, but did you play any earlier PCM to rate the new game objectively?
Let's save the history of PCM together!
Just write me a PM if you have something for old PCM Editions (from 2005 to 2014) - databases, stages, shirts etc. and we'll share it.
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| undertaker |
Posted on 16-06-2021 16:00
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Under 23
Posts: 80
Joined: 19-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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you are def not playing 2021.
because the game is broken AI wise and full of bugs. thats the general opinion on the community lol
mostly are reported since day 2 or 3. and yet to be fixed so if the next patch is another joke like the last one, then idk what this company is doing.
safe to say that this ediiton its one of the worst ever releases day 1. Almost feels like they delivered the BETA build and expected to fix everything post launch.. at this pace , will be done on PCM22 
Edited by undertaker on 16-06-2021 16:10
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| tomcat9 |
Posted on 17-06-2021 01:47
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 362
Joined: 30-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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undertaker wrote:
you are def not playing 2021.
because the game is broken AI wise and full of bugs. thats the general opinion on the community lol
mostly are reported since day 2 or 3. and yet to be fixed so if the next patch is another joke like the last one, then idk what this company is doing.
safe to say that this ediiton its one of the worst ever releases day 1. Almost feels like they delivered the BETA build and expected to fix everything post launch.. at this pace , will be done on PCM22
It seems true unfortunately. Recent Steam reviews show that the game is a disaster: it looks like Pro Cyclist mode only is playable. I never seen such devastating reviews for any other PCM... even from loyal players. So fixes need immediately.
P.S. And there's such a simple recipe of success: to take old AI with some new management features. That's all we need. Dreams-dreams... However I learned a bit stage creating with the old Stage Editor (at last) so I stay with PCM 2000s...
Edited by tomcat9 on 17-06-2021 02:09
Let's save the history of PCM together!
Just write me a PM if you have something for old PCM Editions (from 2005 to 2014) - databases, stages, shirts etc. and we'll share it.
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| vino93 |
Posted on 20-06-2021 23:33
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Junior Rider
Posts: 26
Joined: 24-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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TTT's are completely broken. Riders arrive almost one by one on the finish line. |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
