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Lance Armstrong fair price to pay
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| matt493 |
Posted on 06-04-2008 19:47
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https://sports.espn.go.com/espn/column...id=2958463
Here is an article in ESPN magazine. Read the article and say what you think.
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| chuckie |
Posted on 06-04-2008 19:51
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Screw him if he doped,there is lives to save.
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| t-baum |
Posted on 06-04-2008 20:35
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chuckie wrote:
Screw him if he doped,there is lives to save.
Screw him as in, It doesn't matter if he doped, or screw dopers?
Edited by t-baum on 06-04-2008 20:35
Macquet wrote:
"We all know that wasn't the real footage of the Worlds anyway. That was just the staged footage to perpetuate the coverup that it was actually Vinokourov that won the race." |
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| alex153 |
Posted on 06-04-2008 20:37
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A topic about Lance and dope......that's a new one |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-04-2008 20:40
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I looked at the front page and saw "Lance Armstrong. Fair Price"
"What the hell? these chinese will sell anything..."
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| alex153 |
Posted on 06-04-2008 20:46
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issoisso wrote:
I looked at the front page and saw "Lance Armstrong. Fair Price"
"What the hell? these chinese will sell anything..."
Of course |
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| wildcat000 |
Posted on 06-04-2008 21:52
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I'd like to see anybody dope, be tested over 200 times, and pass every single one. Maskers fail, I work in Pro baseball, makers work sometimes, but not every time. Lance was tested hundreds of times, if he was using masking agents, they would have failed at least once. Lance was got in a Euro game and people didn't like seeing another American succeed like LeMond did. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-04-2008 21:54
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wildcat000 wrote:
I'd like to see anybody dope, be tested over 200 times, and pass every single one. Maskers fail, I work in Pro baseball, makers work sometimes, but not every time. Lance was tested hundreds of times, if he was using masking agents, they would have failed at least once. Lance was got in a Euro game and people didn't like seeing another American succeed like LeMond did.
Armstrong is lying, or Vaughters, his wife and Andreu are lying. Pick a side. Either way, americans are lying. so don't start with the all too popular "Europeans hate americans" routine. It's the single most annoying thing coming from americans.
I know you're more intelligent than that. Please prove me right.
Also, a huge roll of names can be rolled out of people who never tested positive and then admitted they doped.
Edited by issoisso on 06-04-2008 21:55
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| wildcat000 |
Posted on 06-04-2008 22:01
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When did I ever say Vaughters wasn't lying? The people against Armstrong, including Americans, are lying, or strongly misinformed. Don't put words in my mouth, nor did I mean every single European. That's evident by the large number of cheers he got throughout his Tour career. Please don't question my intelligence. I know people have come out without tests, but I understand masking agents. Masking agents aren't designed to work every time. The odds are very strong against never testing positive if you're tested over 200 times, like Armstrong was. Baseball players get detected within a few tests sometimes when using masking agents, they just aren't reliable to use. Understand masking agents before questioning my intelligence. |
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| matt493 |
Posted on 06-04-2008 22:02
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I don't think Europeans hate Americans but I think that some French hate that an American rider and American Team can come to the Tour De France and win. That might be a reason why Astana isn't in the tour this year. Because most of the riders used to ride for an American Team. Americans or American Teams have dominated the Tour de France Recently.
2007 Alberto Contador Spain but American Team
2006 Floyd Landis United States
2005 Lance Armstrong United States
2004 Lance Armstrong United States
2003 Lance Armstrong United States
2002 Lance Armstrong United States
2001 Lance Armstrong United States
2000 Lance Armstrong United States
1999 Lance Armstrong United States
Edited by matt493 on 06-04-2008 22:02
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| wildcat000 |
Posted on 06-04-2008 22:04
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That's what I wrote in an article for the DP matt493. You can't blame them either, especially the French. For a hundred years almost, Americans were barely present. Then all of the sudden they started dominating in the late 80's and then again in 1999 and the early half of this decade. I don't think it's right, but I can see where they are coming from. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-04-2008 22:05
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it's just as easy to say that Bruyneel's teams have dominated the tour recently. so why the "they can't stand americans" argument instead of "they can't stand Bruyneel"?
As for the masking agents bit, those are irrelevant. There was no test for EPO, blood transfusions or Growth Hormone when he rode, so no masking agents are needed.
As for reputation, he won't have a problem. People only remember who won, not how. Look at Delgado, he tested positive for a masking agent the exact year that he won the Tour. most people only remember he won the tour.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| alex153 |
Posted on 06-04-2008 22:05
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matt493 wrote:
I don't think Europeans hate Americans but I think that some French hate that an American rider and American Team can come to the Tour De France and win. That might be a reason why Astana isn't in the tour this year. Because most of the riders used to ride for an American Team. Americans or American Teams have dominated the Tour de France Recently.
2007 Alberto Contador Spain but American Team
2006 Floyd Landis United States
2005 Lance Armstrong United States
2004 Lance Armstrong United States
2003 Lance Armstrong United States
2002 Lance Armstrong United States
2001 Lance Armstrong United States
2000 Lance Armstrong United States
1999 Lance Armstrong United States
Landis didnt win the Tour?
and there is a very good reason why Astana isnt invited....and that counts for all ASO races, not just the Tour |
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| matt493 |
Posted on 06-04-2008 22:08
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I disagree. Yeah Landis did win the tour. But he was caught cheating. I bet a lot of riders cheated to win too but they didn't get caught. Cofidis had riders who were proven dopers like Astana and they are all still racing in ASO races. Astana just had a few dopers that AREN'T ON THE TEAM ANYMORE and they can't go to races.
Edited by matt493 on 06-04-2008 22:08
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| wildcat000 |
Posted on 06-04-2008 22:08
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issoisso wrote:
it's just as easy to say that Bruyneel's teams have dominated the tour recently. so why the "they can't stand americans" argument instead of "they can't stand Bruyneel"?
As for the masking agents bit, those are irrelevant. There was no test for EPO, blood transfusions or Growth Hormone when he rode, so no masking agents are needed.
As for reputation, he won't have a problem. People only remember who won, not how. Look at Delgado, he tested positive for a masking agent the exact year that he won the Tour. most people only remember he won the tour.
I agree with the fact they don't favor Bruyneel as well. That's more out of jealousy from his success than national rivalries though. Armstrong had a UCI rep. following him around all the time, with the exception of the 1999 and 2000 TDF. Most "suspected" riders do, and that's how most get caught transfusing or other illegal activities. Masking agents is a factor as they are mentioned in Walsh's "prove all" book. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-04-2008 22:12
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matt493 wrote:
I disagree. Yeah Landis did win the tour. But he was caught cheating. I bet a lot of riders cheated to win too but they didn't get caught. Cofidis had riders who were proven dopers like Astana and they are all still racing in ASO races. Astana just had a few dopers that AREN'T ON THE TEAM ANYMORE and they can't go to races.
It's a different case. Cofidis had one guy caught. Astana and it's previous incarnations, you can field a whole ProTour squad with all the riders that have been caught from them.
wildcat000 wrote:
I agree with the fact they don't favor Bruyneel as well. That's more out of jealousy from his success than national rivalries though.
Maybe it's they think he's dirty? In my mind at least there's no doubt.
wildcat000 wrote:
Masking agents is a factor as they are mentioned in Walsh's "prove all" book.
So you're acknowledging what Walsh wrote? I'd say it's a bit too sensationalistic to be given any credit, but hey, that's me.
I couldn't really care for the masking agents, really. The drugs Armstrong (and everyone else) supposedly took needed no masking agents as they were undetectable.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| wildcat000 |
Posted on 06-04-2008 22:13
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I'm just saying Walsh accused Armstrong of using masking agents, which brings me back to my point of them failing at some time or another during his career. He was tested way to much for them to be effective every time. On average. there success rate is only 40-50%, but goes down as potency goes up. |
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| alex153 |
Posted on 06-04-2008 22:13
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matt493 wrote:
I disagree. Yeah Landis did win the tour. But he was caught cheating. I bet a lot of riders cheated to win too but they didn't get caught. Cofidis had riders who were proven dopers like Astana and they are all still racing in ASO races. Astana just had a few dopers that AREN'T ON THE TEAM ANYMORE and they can't go to races.
Kessler
Vino
Kascheckin
Mazzoleni
and I think Im forgetting one more.......that's not a few
and in my opinion, Landis never won. |
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| matt493 |
Posted on 06-04-2008 22:15
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issoisso wrote:
matt493 wrote:
I disagree. Yeah Landis did win the tour. But he was caught cheating. I bet a lot of riders cheated to win too but they didn't get caught. Cofidis had riders who were proven dopers like Astana and they are all still racing in ASO races. Astana just had a few dopers that AREN'T ON THE TEAM ANYMORE and they can't go to races.
It's a different case. Cofidis had one guy caught. Astana and it's previous incarnations, you can field a whole ProTour squad with all the riders that have been caught from them.
Give me a list of riders that are still on the team now that were caught doping. That is all I need.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-04-2008 22:15
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wildcat000 wrote:
I'm just saying Walsh accused Armstrong of using masking agents, which brings me back to my point of them failing at some time or another during his career. He was tested way to much for them to be effective every time. On average. there success rate is only 40-50%, but goes down as potency goes up.
again, masking what? steroids? he did test positive for them but (rightly or wrongly), got excused.
According to Vaughters' IM conversation with Andreu (that Vaughters has always acknowledged), it was mostly just blood doping going on.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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