Hi all,
My name is Bogdan, I am new here, I am not a native English speaker, so I apologize for my writing mistakes. I discovered PCM 2012 a few months ago, but I started really to play it only a few weeks ago. I am a cycling fan and I play some cycling on line managers, and now PCM 2012.
I started a career with Radiocash. I didn’t change the original database, I am with Carbonara and Stark brothers . I am close to finish my first season (I am running Vuelta right now), which wasn’t bad at all (1st of Tour of France, 2nd of Giro, 1st Milan - San Remo, 1st Tour Down Under, 1st Liège-Bastogne-Liège and some other results), but I still have some questions concerning this game.
1. How many Absolute leaders can you have in the same time in your squad? I already have three, and I wish to sign a forth one.
2. How the training works? A rider has 14 attributes, but the trainers have only 7 specialisations. I supposed that a trainer specialization will cover 2 attributes from a rider. For example TT for TT and PRL, Climber for HIL and MO, Northern Classics for FLA and COB, but I see that is not like that. So, what attributes are covered by each specialization?
3. What is the training speed? I know that a rider trains according to progress potential for each attribute (from 1 to 6), according to the trainer value in his specialization and according to the riders assigned to each trainer. I have up to maximum 8 riders for each trainer, so the training effectiveness is excellent; my trainers have 10 on their specialization. How does a rider progress? I see the progression graphic, but I suppose is a graphic which shows the progression of the average value of the rider, so I don’t know in which attribute my rider pop up and how many times, or how long it takes for a pop up in a skill.
4. What happens for the riders without trainers? I have 3 or 4 riders with 0 potential at all attributes. They have no trainer, and some of them drop in average. Will a trainer change the situation for these riders?
5. How do I train the attributes which are not covered by the training camps? I saw that a training camp in TT will produce pop-ups for a short term in TT and PRL. A training camp in MO will produce pop-ups in MO and HIL. But some attributes are left behind. How can I train them in training camps?
6. How long does a training camp stage must be? There are any differences between a training camp stage of 3 days and one of 5 days?
7. Last question. My scout found a sprinter, future great. This is how it looks now. It is almost the end of the season, but I signed with him for 3 years. Does he look good for his 20 years? And how should I train him? It worth to change him from sprinter to northern classics? How? And one last thing: my scot is international; I read somewhere on the forum that this may count.
Sorry for not answering the rest but I'm just about to leave. There will be a lot of answers along shortly, though! Otherwise I'll answer them all tomorrow.
And welcome to the community!
Edited by Ian Butler on 11-02-2013 21:19
Alright I'll give a few short answers where Ian left off:
2. The trainers cover several stats. Search the forum for details as you're not the first to wonder
3. Training speed mainly depends on the trainers skills and the rider's potential (can not be seen in-game I believe)
4. They train at a very low level. If they degrade they're probably getting old?
5. With trainers...
6. The longer it is the bigger the effect...
7. He looks like the real deal. The stars next to his stats represent his development potential on that stat. This guy I would definitely train as a sprinter for now. Then when he's done developing his sprinter skills in a few years you can think about making him a more decent cobbler, but don't expect him to be a future Paris-Roubaix winner
3. A very important factor is gene_i_year_progression in dyn_cyclist (use Lachi's Editor to find it in your save), 1 is very slow initial progression, 5 very fast (it rather shows at what relative age the progression is fastest iirc).
Atlantius wrote:
3. Training speed mainly depends on the trainers skills and the rider's potential (can not be seen in-game I believe)
Afaik, the potential only decides the stat limits and has nothing to do with actual progression speed, but you're free to prove me wrong.
4. Riders without trainer are still trained with somewhat random training bonus, but it's not as bad as you might think (maybe 3-5 at most using the values in the trainer specialization menu).
If riders lose stats, I think you can't stop it (or slow it down) with a good trainer either, though.
5. and 6.
I don't use training camps, so no idea.
7. Each star represents ~2 stats, so he'll reach 80/81 Sprint, he's a very good prospect. Whether he'll be even better on cobbles can only be known by looking at his stat limit in an editor, it might range from 70 to 85 as the game can't show more than 6 stars.
Edited by cio93 on 11-02-2013 21:48
First of all welcome and I will try to answer as much as I know
1, I'm not quite sure about this one but I think it shoulndn't be a problem to have a 4th leader
2,3,
This table shows which training type coveres which attributes. 3 is a maximum amount of proggres your rider can get. For example if you train someone as a Fighter his flat attribute will rise much more than if you would train him as Climber. When there is a zero that doesn't mean that he won't get any better at that stat, proggres will be just slower.
Trainers give bonus to your training type. If you have trainer that 10 on Climber than if you choose him for Andy Stark he will get his MO skills up much faster.
I also think that while I'm writing somone will explain this much better .
4, If you have no trainer but your rider still have stars of progres left. He will progres anyway but much slower. If he don't have any stars you can have legendary trainer on him but he just don't get better.
5, Training camps are only for boosting your attributes for only I think it's 3 months. Than those attributes get down to normal. If there is not a training for a Sprinting then you logicaly can't train it in a training camp.
6, I think if you send a rider for 8 days he get higher bonus of attributes than if you send him for only 3 days. For example you send someone with 70 MO skill for 3 days. He gets better by 3 points. But if you send him for 8 days he gets better by 6 points.
This are not true numbers you get I just wanted to show you how it works.
7, Your sprinter looks really good and I think that in 3 years he will compete with Cavendish. I think you should keep training him as a sprinter and not as a Classic rider.
I hope I helped you at least a little bit and if you don't understand something feel free to ask
Edit: come on! Edited by JuanMotr on 11-02-2013 21:38
It always happens the rare times you decide to reply to such questions, right?
But actually, every answer contains interesting info, so if the OP doesn't rage quit at this wall of text, everyone replying helps him
EDIT: Though I have to say Atlantius' "talent evaluation" might be wrong (sorry ), the COB limit could really be 85.
Edited by cio93 on 11-02-2013 21:46
you can sign whoever you like but no matter what the game will only designate 3 riders to have the status "absolute leader" when you start a new career.
that designation means nothing aside from the riders expectations, and thus, moral.
top 10 of all time in no particular order, not including the cannibal cause hes automatically #1:
-Gemininani -Nencini -Anquetil -Coppi
-Kelly -Hinault -Zabel -Bettini -Rebellin -Magni
..and honorable mention to Tom Simpson whos career was cut short.
Top 5 noobs most likely to tear it up this season:
-Phinney -Moser -TJ -Guardini -DURBO!
cio93 wrote:
EDIT: Though I have to say Atlantius' "talent evaluation" might be wrong (sorry ), the COB limit could really be 85.
No worries. I just personally have never seen a talent highly developed in one 80+ talent (and supporting stats) and not very developed in another 80+ potential stat
And I did say "don't expect" rather than "not going to happen"...
Anyway the bottomline (which I believe we agree?) remains that he should be trained in sprinting first and when he's developed into a world class sprinter (as he will) you can start seeing how far you can get him in other stats.
Yeah sure, going for sprint training first is the right choice, cobbles will be trained a fair bit anyway.
Oh, and
LLDS wrote:
And one last thing: my scot is international; I read somewhere on the forum that this may count.
As soon as you have him on your team, these stats are independent from the scout and 100% correct. And as potential - the only thing the scout info tells you - doesn't affect progression speed, it's irrelevant now.
Edited by cio93 on 11-02-2013 22:55
First of all, I want to thank all of you for your generous answers. Obviously, that’s the place for me to learn how to play properly PCM 2012. I’m glad to find it. The table is really useful.
So, if I get it right, the stars don’t show the training speed, but how much a rider can progress in his attribute furthermore. 1 star ~ 2 attribute points, 2 stars ~ 4 attribute points … 6 stars ~12 attribute points or more.
Then, a rider with 76 in sprint and 3 stars at progress potential in sprint will have only 2 stars when he’ll reach 78 in sprint, isn’t it?
I see now that I must hire a new trainer. I only have3 trainers for now, each one with 8 riders, and no one is a sprinter specialization. I will hire a sprinter trainer, but I am afraid I must quit at the fourth absolute leader for my team. Regarding the scout, something it’s puzzling me. My scout has 9 in Climber, 9 in TT, 9 in Northern Classic and only 6 in Sprinter. But, somehow, the future great rider he found is a … sprinter. What do the values of his stats means, therefore?
I almost forgot, how can I track my riders’ progression in every skill?
LLDS wrote:
First of all, I want to thank all of you for your generous answers. Obviously, that’s the place for me to learn how to play properly PCM 2012. I’m glad to find it. The table is really useful.
So, if I get it right, the stars don’t show the training speed, but how much a rider can progress in his attribute furthermore. 1 star ~ 2 attribute points, 2 stars ~ 4 attribute points … 6 stars ~12 attribute points or more.
Then, a rider with 76 in sprint and 3 stars at progress potential in sprint will have only 2 stars when he’ll reach 78 in sprint, isn’t it?
I see now that I must hire a new trainer. I only have3 trainers for now, each one with 8 riders, and no one is a sprinter specialization. I will hire a sprinter trainer, but I am afraid I must quit at the fourth absolute leader for my team. Regarding the scout, something it’s puzzling me. My scout has 9 in Climber, 9 in TT, 9 in Northern Classic and only 6 in Sprinter. But, somehow, the future great rider he found is a … sprinter. What do the values of his stats means, therefore?
I almost forgot, how can I track my riders’ progression in every skill?
You're kinda right with the training progress etc. It's just a little bit different. It's 1 star: 1-2 progress, 2 star: 3-5, 3 star: 6-7 etc. So 6 stars is 16+
(I believe 1 star = 2,5 points, but rounded to 2, since 2,5 isn't 3 yet, if you know what I mean
And regarding the scout, it's just about the potential estimation. He finds the same amount of guys per specialisation, but if he had 10 in sprinter, it's almost certain that he estimates the potential(Future great, promising, worth watching, no hoper) correct.
Now he could say that the sprinter is a Future Great, but it turns out to be promising or worth watching. He could still be right about it though.
And regarding the U23 riders(which you scout), I recommend watching the U23 results. The winners of the stages are very promising most of the times. Your scout can scout them too, if you click on the name of the U23 rider. He has to be in the same area as where that rider is from though..
You can't really track a rider's stats. You should just keep an eye on them yourself.
Oh wait, there is a possibility, but you need Lachi's editor for that. I don't think it's really important though, you can see it immediately if they improve
Edit: And 4 Absolute leaders are possible. They might get angry if they don't get leader roles if they are absolute leaders though. This doesn't happen at 3D race(which is way more fun anyway) though, but only at Simulation.
Edited by Jesleyh on 12-02-2013 10:48
I have been studying how stars work for some (pcm) years. Right now I'm in 2020 in my career and this is what I have discovered.
If the rider has 1 star in a stat he will develop 1-2 points.
If the rider has 2 stars in a stat he will develop 3-4 points.
If the rider has 3 stars in a stat he will develop 5-7 points.
If the rider has 4 stars in a stat he will develop 8-10 points.
For a 5 star stat it means the first and second star give 2 points each, the third and fourth give 3 points each, so that's 10. I have not managed to see what the fifth star maximum is, anyway this rider will most definitely have at least 82 in sprint.
Edit: Ok, I did a small test and the 5th star maximum is 5 points you can add to what I said above
If the rider has 5 stars in a stat he will develop 11-15 points.
Star number six is unpredictable but you can be sure a 6 star stat will at the very least develop 16 points.
Edited by jacp on 12-02-2013 16:29
Anyway the bottomline (which I believe we agree?) remains that he should be trained in sprinting first and when he's developed into a world class sprinter (as he will) you can start seeing how far you can get him in other stats.
thats pretty cool. seems like how most young classics riders develop in the real world too. start off being sprinters and then build on that engine with good TT and cobbles skills, then get better on the hills later in life. im thinking of sean kelly, boonen, van avermaet...
top 10 of all time in no particular order, not including the cannibal cause hes automatically #1:
-Gemininani -Nencini -Anquetil -Coppi
-Kelly -Hinault -Zabel -Bettini -Rebellin -Magni
..and honorable mention to Tom Simpson whos career was cut short.
Top 5 noobs most likely to tear it up this season:
-Phinney -Moser -TJ -Guardini -DURBO!
1. What happens if I change the fitness training plan for a rider during the season ? Are any effect on fatigue/training/fitness ?
2. Is there any factor that affects negatively or positively the progress potential ? If a rider has to much fatigue or too many race days or is unhappy, or I don't know, could his progress potential change ?
3. Which aspect are restarted at the start of a new season and what aspects continue from the last season ? I know that if at the end of a season a rider is unhappy he will be unhappy at the beginning of the next season, so the morale doesn't change from one season to another. But I don't remember if fatigue and fitness change.
1. Not sure about this. I think it will work without problems.
2. There are limits for every rider, that don`t change during the career. So no matter how many race days, fatigue etc. he can reach this limit.
It all obviously depends on his training, trainer etc. how fast he reaches it. Also there is a specific age for every rider, when he starts to lose stats again.
3. Fatige starts at 0 every season. Fitness is random I think. Something between 30 and 60 or so normally.
Regarding question 1:
You can change the fitness training plan at any time during the season but the rider might not be able to follow the new plan, if you change it too drastically.
Example: One week before the Tour de France you notice that you have set a wrong fitness plan for Contador, instead of level 6 you have set level 4. You can change the training level to 6 for the TdF and Contador will try to reach level 6. But since his actual training level is around 4, he first needs to train one or more weeks to reach level 5, then he needs to train 4 weeks at level 5 before he can reach level 6.
He might also train harder, so his fatigue will raise a faster.
The same is valid if you reduce the training level. A riders fitness can only drop one level per week, even if you change the fitness plan.
roturn wrote:
2. There are limits for every rider, that don`t change during the career. So no matter how many race days, fatigue etc. he can reach this limit.
It all obviously depends on his training, trainer etc. how fast he reaches it. Also there is a specific age for every rider, when he starts to lose stats again.
It is possible for a rider to increase his attributes after he begins to lose stats ?
. I am close to finish my first season (I am running Vuelta right now), which wasn’t bad at all (1st of Tour of France, 2nd of Giro, 1st Milan - San Remo, 1st Tour Down Under, 1st Liège-Bastogne-Liège and some other results), but I still have some questions concerning this game.
and I will try to answer as much as I know 
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
