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General Question...
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| KurtinSC |
Posted on 30-10-2007 12:55
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Every database I've seen (including the one that comes with the game) has the US as a 1-star area to scout... and a long scout time.
In PCM Spain I've been noticing the stars given to other areas... and I'm questioning that. Of the current riders, there are quite a few US guys that probably would have been very high potential recruits from the US... Zabriskie, Hincapie, Leipheimer, Danielson, Horner, Fred Rodriguez and the like. There are also a good number of second level guys.
Yet the US has less of a star rating than places like China or Japan. That doesn't seem quite right. I can understand the European contries being higher... obviously cycling isn't as big in the US as in Europe... but based on the numbers of riders on pro and continental teams, I'd think the US shouldn't be behind some of the asian and south american countries. |
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| ruben |
Posted on 30-10-2007 12:56
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You definately have a point there, but that's up to the makers of PCM Spain to decide ofcourse |
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| Dankan |
Posted on 30-10-2007 13:05
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Take a look not only to what's the country's potential, but also how much riders come from each country.
Nevertheless, it's possible my former mates involved in scouting research did an error. And I myself made a mistake by not revising it.+
Edited by Dankan on 30-10-2007 13:08
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| mdd31 |
Posted on 31-10-2007 14:00
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KurtinSC wrote:
Every database I've seen (including the one that comes with the game) has the US as a 1-star area to scout... and a long scout time.
In PCM Spain I've been noticing the stars given to other areas... and I'm questioning that. Of the current riders, there are quite a few US guys that probably would have been very high potential recruits from the US... Zabriskie, Hincapie, Leipheimer, Danielson, Horner, Fred Rodriguez and the like. There are also a good number of second level guys.
Yet the US has less of a star rating than places like China or Japan. That doesn't seem quite right. I can understand the European contries being higher... obviously cycling isn't as big in the US as in Europe... but based on the numbers of riders on pro and continental teams, I'd think the US shouldn't be behind some of the asian and south american countries.
You also need to remember that most, if not all Databases are made by Europeans and in general most Europeans either hate or STRONGLY dislike Americans so you can not expect America to be highly rated as a potential scouting area.
I don't post this in a negative way, just stating the reality of the world. Europeans do not respect American cycling despite the fact that an American has won how many TDFs in the last 15-20 years compared to the Frenchys or other Euros? 
Anyway I would suggest editing the scouting area to a 2 star and slightly reduce the scouting time for more accurate results. |
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| samtheman |
Posted on 31-10-2007 14:15
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I don't think so, I know I dislike the US politics, but that doesn't affect my attitude towards them in cycling and I think there are enough slipstram fans around here
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| Dankan |
Posted on 31-10-2007 14:19
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mdd31 wrote:
You also need to remember that most, if not all Databases are made by Europeans and in general most Europeans either hate or STRONGLY dislike Americans so you can not expect America to be highly rated as a potential scouting area.
Putting everyone into the same pot is ALWAYS, ALWAYS wrong. |
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| Addy291 |
Posted on 31-10-2007 15:40
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yup, i don't hate or strongly dislike America, one of my friend's family is all American (he's from Yorkshire though) and i like him.
i don't like certain thing Mr Bush does but he is not America, he is one man
YORKSHIRE BORN, YORKSHIRE BRED... |
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 31-10-2007 16:13
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mdd31 wrote:
You also need to remember that most, if not all Databases are made by Europeans and in general most Europeans either hate or STRONGLY dislike Americans so you can not expect America to be highly rated as a potential scouting area.
I don't post this in a negative way, just stating the reality of the world. Europeans do not respect American cycling despite the fact that an American has won how many TDFs in the last 15-20 years compared to the Frenchys or other Euros?
Anyway I would suggest editing the scouting area to a 2 star and slightly reduce the scouting time for more accurate results.
Two TdF winners out of 280ish millions of people. While Denmark have had one and a half TdF winner with only 5.5 million people.
I think two stars is the highest the US should have. And still 50 days because it is a big big country after all.
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 31-10-2007 16:19
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The whole star rating thing will never please anyone, and the best way to do it is just by comparing each countries' cycling talent and working like that.
You cant soley use Tour de France victories as a basis of scouting stars and besides, if you asked ASO, Denmark would have had no Grandtour wins, since Riis was doped.
Personally, I would give USA 4 or 5 stars.
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 31-10-2007 16:23
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SportingNonsense wrote:
You cant soley use Tour de France victories as a basis of scouting stars and besides, if you asked ASO, Denmark would have had no Grandtour wins, since Riis was doped.
Personally, I would give USA 4 or 5 stars.
Havent they claimed that Armstrong was doped too? Well, without evidence but still.
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| Addy291 |
Posted on 31-10-2007 16:31
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Armstrong did return a positive test but there is a whole 10 page arguement about him somewhere
YORKSHIRE BORN, YORKSHIRE BRED... |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 31-10-2007 16:32
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You cant compare Riis to Armstrong.
Armstrong may have doped, he may not. Theres no or little evidence.
Riis did dope, he said so himself.
I find it funny that you rate USA as 2-star cycling nation when Denmark are either 3-star or 4-star. Theres nationalism and then theres overdoing it, and that is certainly overdoing it.
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| samtheman |
Posted on 31-10-2007 16:41
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At least 3 but not 5 imo. Belgium, Spain, Italy deserve 5, you can't compare the US with these, but 2 stars is definitely too little
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| mrlol |
Posted on 31-10-2007 16:46
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I think even belgium is overrated.... who do they got??? Boonen.... and???? of course, in the 2nd line they got steegmans, gilbert, nuyens etc. but not world class riders.... and if you look at italy for instance, they got di luca, rebbelin, cunego, ballan, simioni... all can win classics of tours...
if you look at that belgium should have 4 stars.... but well.... I'm not a DB maker... |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 31-10-2007 16:48
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Like I said, you can never please everyone, besides all those 3 countries mentioned have 6 star rating in some areas of the country in PCM spain.
USA are a better cycling country than Ukraine, yet Ukraine are given 6 stars and most, if not all databases. The same with Kazakhstan who have 5, when their only 2 top level riders turned out to be doped.
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 31-10-2007 16:48
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SportingNonsense wrote:
You cant compare Riis to Armstrong.
Armstrong may have doped, he may not. Theres no or little evidence.
Riis did dope, he said so himself.
I find it funny that you rate USA as 2-star cycling nation when Denmark are either 3-star or 4-star. Theres nationalism and then theres overdoing it, and that is certainly overdoing it.
Nationalism my arse. I havent said Denmark deserved higher.
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 31-10-2007 16:53
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Waghlon wrote:
Nationalism my arse. I havent said Denmark deserved higher.
You didnt say they deserved lower either
If youre going to go around saying x country deserves x stars then it needs to be based on comparison to what other countries have.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 31-10-2007 16:56
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mdd31 wrote:
You also need to remember that most, if not all Databases are made by Europeans and in general most Europeans either hate or STRONGLY dislike Americans so you can not expect America to be highly rated as a potential scouting area.
even if that were remotely true, you have done yourself no favors since this bit of yours adheres 100% to the "dumb american, everyone hates america because they're the greatest" stereotype.
just like nearly all americans aren't like you, nearly all europeans don't conform to the stereotype you're referring to
mdd31 wrote:
Anyway I would suggest editing the scouting area to a 2 star and slightly reduce the scouting time for more accurate results.
comparing to other countries, I'd rate it 3 stars. they have a few good and even top riders, but nowhere near the depth of talent that Italy or Spain produce. 3 stars seems about right.
SportingNonsense wrote:
I find it funny that you rate USA as 2-star cycling nation when Denmark are either 3-star or 4-star. Theres nationalism and then theres overdoing it, and that is certainly overdoing it.
I'd rate Denmark just above the US. if you compare the pool of talent of each, it's similar, but check the youth rankings over the last few seasons and the results of danish talents coming up in junior categories have been up there with italy. actually, if someone says they've done better than the italians, I'd accept that. so, giving 5 stars to a country with just one region (Denmark) seems pretty reasonable compared to Italy having so many multi-star regions.
that's my two cents
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 31-10-2007 17:00
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Well if you were to compare the current riders of all ages I would definately rate USA above Denmark.
Its hard to compare countries like USA and Denmark for their youth policies as I would presume that while the Danes ride regularly in Europe, many American juniors probably just stay in america racing.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 31-10-2007 17:02
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Well if you were to compare the current riders of all ages I would definately rate USA above Denmark.
I wouldn't. but then that's the whole point. it's subjective 
SportingNonsense wrote:
Its hard to compare countries like USA and Denmark for their youth policies as I would presume that while the Danes ride regularly in Europe, many American juniors probably just stay in america racing.
yup. that's why you must look the young talents that have just turned professional. I'd say it's a landslide, but time will tell.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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