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Breakaways
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| ochocinco85 |
Posted on 06-06-2012 03:53
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Free Agent
Posts: 135
Joined: 14-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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It always seems like whenever I'm in a breakaway the peloton wants to chase it down, but whenever I'm not the other teams in the peloton lets the breakaway go. Does this happen anyone else or do you know how to make the peloton chase? |
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| Teddy The Creator |
Posted on 06-06-2012 04:23
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2253
Joined: 19-10-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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That's just PCM logic. Happens to everyone. 
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 06-06-2012 06:40
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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It's sort of the game. But you can lessen the effect by sending someone in the breakaway with stats in the high 60s. Whenever you send a rider in the 70s, the peloton usually wants to take him back right away. |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 06-06-2012 09:07
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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It is not so easy to have a rider in the first break but the other teams also chase if you have no rider in it. It depends on the amount of riders, the type of riders and the stats of the riders. But if your rider is the strongest in the break away, he surely will be chased.
Like Ian said, it is easier if you send a rider which has no ambitions, so either send a weak rider or a rider which is way back in the general classification. Also you might have better chances if you send a rider which is known for being in break aways often like Jens Voigt.
Since the breakaway almost never makes it to the finish line, your goal should be to win intermediate sprints, so don't waste the energy of a useful rider.
Maybe you have noted that the breakaway is more likely to make it to the finish line if you have no rider in it, this also is based on several factors but obviously it can be a good tactic to send a rider into the break so your team does not need to work (much) in the chasing. In this case, you might have to send different riders into the breaks until a break is successful.
Another option is to wait and see if the peloton chases the break. If they don't chase, make a attack before the break is far away. Normally some other riders will follow your attack, so wait for them and use them to get to the first group.
And the last options would be to chase the break yourself. In the beginning of the race, you can put the weakest of your riders on short relay around 55% and he will not burn a lot of energy but still chase the break. |
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| yoejo |
Posted on 08-06-2012 04:03
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 276
Joined: 21-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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I think PCM is pretty logical here. often they chase, but not always. Maybe less often than if I wouldn´t be in breakaway, I don´t know. but I don´t think one should be in a breakaway just for the intermediate sprints, if he´s not a rider aiming for the points competition. just a waste of energy if the break makes it.
In the grand tours, peloton often let go of the breakway riders 3 or four times. at least one, maximum five. Last week I won three stages of the tour with Pineau (71 FL, 71 MO and 75 HILL). he axtually ended up winning the tour points competition, also thanks to two hilly stages.
Anyway, it´s not true that the peloton chases riders with over 70 in some stats. It has to do with where they are in general classification. If it is in the beginning of a important stage race, they are more careful. But if you are over 40 minutes behind, it doesn´t matter how good the stats is. I never send my riders in breakaways under 70 in either flat, hill or sprint.
By the way, if you want to find the best breakaway riders, you should look for the fighter stats. |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 08-06-2012 09:22
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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The over-70 rule is more for a single race.
I agree that they look more at your overall GC in (big) stage races. |
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| Jaywol |
Posted on 08-06-2012 11:20
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Domestique
Posts: 723
Joined: 02-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I think I'm also right in saying that any points won during intermediate sprints are added to the teams overall points score, so if your looking to get your team promoted, this is a good way of racking up some points without winning stages or races.
When a breakaway gets over the minute mark I check the speed of the peleton. If it stays around the 30km mark, it usually means they aren't bothered chasing. That's usually when I launch my rider into the break. Again, I think your overall GC place or stats will influence whether the peleton will chase once you've joined the breakaway. |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 08-06-2012 11:49
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World Champion
Posts: 10891
Joined: 19-11-2010
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You can just look at heart rate in the peleton. If it's in 165-175 that means the peleton are chasing and the break will likely be caught.
If the peleton pace was high but then decreases, the heart rate will go down from 160's to 150's and to 140's. Then is the time to go in the break.
Also when peleton is at those heart-rates and not chasing, and the break has e.g 1 minute. It's best to use one of your other riders to catch them and when you catch them, attack or counter-attack with the rider you want to break. The peleton should not chase this time at all, even with your rider in the break.
Edited by Alakagom on 08-06-2012 11:52
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| Squire |
Posted on 08-06-2012 11:57
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1404
Joined: 24-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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The game is getting more and more realistic regarding breakaways (not perfect yet, though). Normally, you can just think on what stage or under which circumstances a break usually makes it in real life, and the same logic applies to the game (to a certain extent).
After losing minutes upon minutes because of a crash and an injury that lasted for a few days, my very strong Mattia Cattaneo in 2017 won three mountain stages in the Giro from breakaways. I like that the game lets a rider like that go, when his overall ambitions are gone.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 09:06
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| DaBobScotts |
Posted on 08-06-2012 12:23
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Domestique
Posts: 606
Joined: 15-01-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Squire wrote:
The game is getting more and more realistic regarding breakaways (not perfect yet, though). Normally, you can just think on what stage or under which circumstances a break usually makes it in real life, and the same logic applies to the game (to a certain extent).
After losing minutes upon minutes because of a crash and an injury that lasted for a few days, my very strong Mattia Cattaneo in 2017 won three mountain stages in the Giro from breakaways. I like that the game lets a rider like that go, when his overall ambitions are gone.
This can be a bad thing, though. I had a team based around Goss, and the yellow jersey. However, I had Porte who I was trying to get in the top 10. Wiggins was only a couple of minutes down, but was placed 11th and went into the break. Survived, won the tour by a couple of minutes.
Although, the system is pretty good, other than that little issue
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| ricotero_uy |
Posted on 08-06-2012 19:09
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Domestique
Posts: 610
Joined: 21-03-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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As in real life, i've experienced breakaways with top10 contenders... and the top3 team were not interested in chasing because they were safe. It was the teams of the 4-10 who chase the breakaway, so not only the work is done by the team's leader or sprinter's teams.
Sometimes it fails... sometimes not. |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 09-06-2012 08:25
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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I've almost never had another team working unless they wore the jersey. Only when I'm in the breakaway myself. |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 11-06-2012 09:03
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Do you want to say that you don't see other teams do the work if your team has the jersey? |
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 11-06-2012 09:48
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3936
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I can, in a way, see what he's saying. It is pretty realistic that the AI doesn't do the work for you, but it can be frustrating when they risk dropping from 2nd to 7th by letting the breakaway go.
There's a fine line between "psychotherapist" and "psycho the rapist"
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 11-06-2012 09:54
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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Lachi wrote:
Do you want to say that you don't see other teams do the work if your team has the jersey?
In my experience, only the team of the main jersey rides. |
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 11-06-2012 11:22
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 898
Joined: 17-11-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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I don't have many good experiences with GC outsiders on mountain stages in the last week of a GT. Pretty much every single time there are one or more riders between the places 5-15 doing a break about halfway through the stage. The peleton never wants to chase. But if I send my GC contender in the same break, who is on place 10-11, it seems like the peleton is determined to chase me down.
Every. Single. *******. Time.
Pisses me off to no end, because it means that I'm forced to chase the breakaway myself, and ultimately means that my leader is already weakened before the start of the last climb.
Anyway, I do have good experiences with early breaks on most stage types. There are several tips I can give to get your rider into the break successfully.
1. Do not counterattack on every single break that is trying to form. Usually it takes about 3-5 attacks before a breakaway group is really formed.
2. When a breakaway group is formed, wait until the group is exactly 2 minutes ahead of the peloton. This is usually a good sign that the breakaway has been allowed to go. Then you attack your own rider and catch up with the break at 80 effort.
3. There are several reasons why you could have one of your riders in the break, the most common ones are going for a stage win to have another surviving rider to help out your leader in the stage finale. In both cases, make sure that the rider you are sending is strong enough to survive the break until the end (so at least just as strong as the other riders in the break) and not too strong to pose a significant threat to the race favourites. In other words: putting Cancellara in an early break on a flat stage with sprint finish won't get you anywhere, but doing so with Lieuwe Westra might work.
4. If you're trying to force a race/stage win, make absolutely sure that you are the strongest in the group. Otherwise you'll just lose the race to someone else in the breakaway. You can force a race/stage win by maintaining the time-distance to finish gap at 1min:10km. I don't relay my riders at all when I'm in the break, until the peloton starts to chase, whis is when I start riding at 80 effort with my breakaway rider. Usually the peloton will have a hard time chasing and might just give up. Make sure you don't burn up your breakaway rider completely though: have him rest at the back of the break when his yellow bar is halfway empty.
5. Again when forcing a breakaway win, get ready to attack or to counter attacks with 20 km to go. If the peloton is still chasing, you will have to attack with 99 effort to try and make it to the finish yourself. If the peloton has given up, you can either attack or go for a breakaway sprint, if your rider's sprint stat is the highest. In that case, chase the attacks that will happen from 20km and on.
I've lost count on the amount of breakaway wins I've had in this way. Especially in the first week on a GT, this tactic works really well. It's actually quite easy once you get the hang of it. |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 11-06-2012 12:08
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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However I send in a breakaway, I never win unless I'm able to do a solo (in mountain stage)
Even when I have the best sprinter by far, I can't seem to win a sprint in a little breakaway group, if it's flat, that is.
It's the weirdest thing. |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 11-06-2012 16:29
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
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Ian Butler wrote:
Lachi wrote:
Do you want to say that you don't see other teams do the work if your team has the jersey?
In my experience, only the team of the main jersey rides. In my opinion it is AI versus the player. If one of your riders is the race leader, you have to do the work. Obviously this is not totally realistic but then again, it would be way to easy to win like Hesjedal just because Liquigas is doing all the work.
Of course this mainly applies to hilly and mountain stages, since the sprinter teams want to win the flat stages anyway. |
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| solano |
Posted on 11-06-2012 17:13
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Stagiare
Posts: 181
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1. Do not counterattack on every single break that is trying to form. Usually it takes about 3-5 attacks before a breakaway group is really formed.
My experience is that it only takes 3-5 attacks if I am trying to get in the breakaway. If I don't bother then the first attack usually stays away.
I also find that if I do get a rider in the breakaway then I'm the only one working and we get pulled back quickly. Once I decide not to bother, then the next attack goes and gets 5 minutes really quickly.
That's how it seems anyway.
Edited by solano on 11-06-2012 17:13
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| Lachi |
Posted on 11-06-2012 21:32
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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This is just your impression because you try to see it that way. If you always send a rider into the early break, then obviously you well see a lot of chasing. Be it the first/wrong stage, the wrong rider you are sending or the wrong rider(s) the AI is sending.
If only your rider is working, then you sent the wrong and/or a too strong rider. AI riders don't help if they don't see any chances making it to the finish line together. |
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