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The 60 Race Day Limit
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| mscaviy2601 |
Posted on 01-09-2011 07:59
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Junior Rider
Posts: 27
Joined: 26-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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As I understand it, the game grants a leeway of 60 race days before riders automatically get penalised fitness wise for every race day accumulated after the 60 days. Is this right?
And if it is, I'm royally screwed. I'm trying to set up a season using the excellent season planner. I'm currently planning the July races, with 24 races still to go, of which 9 are stage races (the Vuelta doesn't count because I've already planned that one) and I find that almost all my riders are in the 50s and 60s already.
So four questions:
1. Do the rest of you have problems trying to keep your riders close to the 60 day limit?
2. Most of my leaders and top sprinters are fully allocated. The sensible option it seems to me is just to sacrifice my less important riders on the less important races and run them well over the 60 days to keep my leaders close to the limit. Is that right?
3. How much performance is lost after the 60 days?
4. Do AI teams face the same problem in losing fitness towards the end of the season because their riders too are over the limit? And if that's the case, presumably I wouldn't be too disadvantaged because "it's the same for everyone".
Sorry for all the questions but would appreciate some advice. |
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| misar82 |
Posted on 01-09-2011 08:17
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Stagiare
Posts: 170
Joined: 26-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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You are probably stretching out your top riders too much . A standard example of a 60-64 days allocation would be this (my las season plan for Contador):
Vuelta Castilla-Leon
Tour of Romandie
Giro
Dauphiné
Spanish ITT champ.
Tour
San Sebastian Classic
Vuelta a Burgos (already over the limit but enough to use him in one final not-so-important important race)
Other typical plan for a top rider would be:
Vuelta a Andalucia (or any other continental 1 week race at the end of feb.)
Paris-Nice (or Tirreno)
Milan San Remo
Volta a Catalunya
Pays Basque
April Classics (Fleche, Amstel)
Either Giro or Tour or Vuelta (with some previous race in any of those cases to help the rider get the fitness back before the GT starts)
Hope this helps 
"Between me and Eddie Merkcx we have won all the classics. I won the Paris-Tours, he won all the rest"
Nöel Vantyghem
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| mscaviy2601 |
Posted on 01-09-2011 08:44
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Junior Rider
Posts: 27
Joined: 26-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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misar82 wrote:
You are probably stretching out your top riders too much . A standard example of a 60-64 days allocation would be this (my las season plan for Contador):
Vuelta Castilla-Leon
Tour of Romandie
Giro
Dauphiné
Spanish ITT champ.
Tour
San Sebastian Classic
Vuelta a Burgos (already over the limit but enough to use him in one final not-so-important important race)
Other typical plan for a top rider would be:
Vuelta a Andalucia (or any other continental 1 week race at the end of feb.)
Paris-Nice (or Tirreno)
Milan San Remo
Volta a Catalunya
Pays Basque
April Classics (Fleche, Amstel)
Either Giro or Tour or Vuelta (with some previous race in any of those cases to help the rider get the fitness back before the GT starts)
Hope this helps
Thank you it does.
I'm playing with Sky and for Wiggins I've allocated the following:
Paris-Nice
Criterium International
Ronde Van Vlaanderen (5* sponsor req.)
Paris - Roubaix (same)
Amstel Gold, Fleche and Liege
Dauphine
TDF
Vuelta
That puts him at 66 days. Ideally I'd like to give him an early stage race pre Paris-Nice so he's got some race days under his belt. If I was to add another five days (the Vuelta Andalucia for ex.) would those additional days make him uncompetitve for the Vuelta as his last race? I suppose I could scratch him from the Vuelta but would then have the same problem for Lokvist or Michael Rogers.
And don't get me started on EBH's problems. |
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| Housies |
Posted on 01-09-2011 08:46
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Under 23
Posts: 89
Joined: 31-01-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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I once read that if a rider makes too many racing days, this can negtivly affect this riders potential, especially for young riders.
Maybe someone can confirm this?
If this is true, I would recommend no to sacrifice your young riders to ride to many races.
About the negative impact of the racing days on performance: I don't think the racing days themselves have an influence. The fatigue however clearly influeneces as the maximum training fitness the rider can ontain lowers. (the maximum is 80pts but it drops fast when a rider gets too tired)
Day races and fatigue are connected but it is possible to have a lot of racing days without having a high fatigue. Fatigue is mainly based on training effort. If a rider rides 10 races having a fitness of 65 pts, the fatigue added will be fairly low, however riding 10 races with 80pts fitness will tire the rider a lot. |
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| misar82 |
Posted on 01-09-2011 08:56
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Stagiare
Posts: 170
Joined: 26-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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mscaviy2601 wrote:
misar82 wrote:
You are probably stretching out your top riders too much . A standard example of a 60-64 days allocation would be this (my las season plan for Contador):
Vuelta Castilla-Leon
Tour of Romandie
Giro
Dauphiné
Spanish ITT champ.
Tour
San Sebastian Classic
Vuelta a Burgos (already over the limit but enough to use him in one final not-so-important important race)
Other typical plan for a top rider would be:
Vuelta a Andalucia (or any other continental 1 week race at the end of feb.)
Paris-Nice (or Tirreno)
Milan San Remo
Volta a Catalunya
Pays Basque
April Classics (Fleche, Amstel)
Either Giro or Tour or Vuelta (with some previous race in any of those cases to help the rider get the fitness back before the GT starts)
Hope this helps
Thank you it does.
I'm playing with Sky and for Wiggins I've allocated the following:
Paris-Nice
Criterium International
Ronde Van Vlaanderen (5* sponsor req.)
Paris - Roubaix (same)
Amstel Gold, Fleche and Liege
Dauphine
TDF
Vuelta
That puts him at 66 days. Ideally I'd like to give him an early stage race pre Paris-Nice so he's got some race days under his belt. If I was to add another five days (the Vuelta Andalucia for ex.) would those additional days make him uncompetitve for the Vuelta as his last race? I suppose I could scratch him from the Vuelta but would then have the same problem for Lokvist or Michael Rogers.
And don't get me started on EBH's problems.
The problem I see with your plan for Wiggins is that he will be in poor form for the Paris-Nice, as it is his first race of the year - so it will be a waste - and the same will happen with the Vuelta (although in this case he might get in good shape by the second week, but it may be too late by then). It is like in real life, you can´t expect a rider to be competitive at the start of the season, in the middle and also in the end. I would try combinations of two peak periods per rider/season, e.g. spring-summer, or spring-autumn, or summer-autumn
"Between me and Eddie Merkcx we have won all the classics. I won the Paris-Tours, he won all the rest"
Nöel Vantyghem
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| mscaviy2601 |
Posted on 01-09-2011 09:08
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Junior Rider
Posts: 27
Joined: 26-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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misar82 wrote:
mscaviy2601 wrote:
misar82 wrote:
You are probably stretching out your top riders too much . A standard example of a 60-64 days allocation would be this (my las season plan for Contador):
Vuelta Castilla-Leon
Tour of Romandie
Giro
Dauphiné
Spanish ITT champ.
Tour
San Sebastian Classic
Vuelta a Burgos (already over the limit but enough to use him in one final not-so-important important race)
Other typical plan for a top rider would be:
Vuelta a Andalucia (or any other continental 1 week race at the end of feb.)
Paris-Nice (or Tirreno)
Milan San Remo
Volta a Catalunya
Pays Basque
April Classics (Fleche, Amstel)
Either Giro or Tour or Vuelta (with some previous race in any of those cases to help the rider get the fitness back before the GT starts)
Hope this helps
Thank you it does.
I'm playing with Sky and for Wiggins I've allocated the following:
Paris-Nice
Criterium International
Ronde Van Vlaanderen (5* sponsor req.)
Paris - Roubaix (same)
Amstel Gold, Fleche and Liege
Dauphine
TDF
Vuelta
That puts him at 66 days. Ideally I'd like to give him an early stage race pre Paris-Nice so he's got some race days under his belt. If I was to add another five days (the Vuelta Andalucia for ex.) would those additional days make him uncompetitve for the Vuelta as his last race? I suppose I could scratch him from the Vuelta but would then have the same problem for Lokvist or Michael Rogers.
And don't get me started on EBH's problems.
The problem I see with your plan for Wiggins is that he will be in poor form for the Paris-Nice, as it is his first race of the year - so it will be a waste - and the same will happen with the Vuelta (although in this case he might get in good shape by the second week, but it may be too late by then). It is like in real life, you can´t expect a rider to be competitive at the start of the season, in the middle and also in the end. I would try combinations of two peak periods per rider/season, e.g. spring-summer, or spring-autumn, or summer-autumn
Thanks. I've pretty much reached that conclusion, scratching him from the Vuelta and adding in Veulta Andalucia. I'll try and use that two peak period formula as a base though so many thanks for that. |
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| mscaviy2601 |
Posted on 01-09-2011 09:11
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Junior Rider
Posts: 27
Joined: 26-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Housies wrote:
I once read that if a rider makes too many racing days, this can negtivly affect this riders potential, especially for young riders.
Maybe someone can confirm this?
If this is true, I would recommend no to sacrifice your young riders to ride to many races.
About the negative impact of the racing days on performance: I don't think the racing days themselves have an influence. The fatigue however clearly influeneces as the maximum training fitness the rider can ontain lowers. (the maximum is 80pts but it drops fast when a rider gets too tired)
Day races and fatigue are connected but it is possible to have a lot of racing days without having a high fatigue. Fatigue is mainly based on training effort. If a rider rides 10 races having a fitness of 65 pts, the fatigue added will be fairly low, however riding 10 races with 80pts fitness will tire the rider a lot.
Thankyou. Unfortunately I haven't really got to grips with training yet, that'a next on this steep learning curve. Looking forward to PCM setting up this tips and tricks section. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 11:17
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| roturn |
Posted on 01-09-2011 09:24
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Team Manager
Posts: 22246
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
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Housies wrote:
I once read that if a rider makes too many racing days, this can negtivly affect this riders potential, especially for young riders.
Maybe someone can confirm this?
No too many race days only influence the fitness and not the potential or anything else.
Neither with experienced riders nor with young talents.
I plan my season with the planner and my leaders are between 60-75 in the end. These +15 race days doesn`t really matter as the fitness is still not too bad and also the AI has a low fitness in the end.
My helpers are supposed to have a similar amount of race days but sometimes they also come up to 85 or so.
Still working very well for me. |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 01-09-2011 09:29
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Housies wrote:
I once read that if a rider makes too many racing days, this can negtivly affect this riders potential, especially for young riders.
Maybe someone can confirm this?
If this is true, I would recommend no to sacrifice your young riders to ride to many races. Not true, just forget about this rumor.
Housies wrote:
About the negative impact of the racing days on performance: I don't think the racing days themselves have an influence. The fatigue however clearly influeneces as the maximum training fitness the rider can ontain lowers. (the maximum is 80pts but it drops fast when a rider gets too tired) The rider loses 0.5 of race fitness for each day above 60. So it is not a drastic decrease but with 80 race days it will be hard to win races.
Housies wrote:
Day races and fatigue are connected but it is possible to have a lot of racing days without having a high fatigue. Fatigue is mainly based on training effort. If a rider rides 10 races having a fitness of 65 pts, the fatigue added will be fairly low, however riding 10 races with 80pts fitness will tire the rider a lot. Raced days and fatigue are absolutely not connected. One is only based on the raced days, the other mainly on the training schedule. |
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| mscaviy2601 |
Posted on 01-09-2011 09:57
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Junior Rider
Posts: 27
Joined: 26-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Two further quick questions as I'm getting good replies (sort of connected).
1. On training schedules, should I aim for maximum intensity (dark green bars in-game, red bars on Lachi's planner) at the time of the races or the weeks preceding the race.
2. The reason I'm starting the career is to emulate the real life Sky races (ie edit the career to have the exact same races that real life Sky participated in, and wherever possible have the same riders race as in real life*) and do a story with what I think is an interesting twist. On thinking about this more though, perhaps this would be better done by simulating individual races rather than in a career. Would it be better done this way?
* Only the same Sky riders, I don't have the skill or time to create a startlist for every race.
EDIT: Nevermind on Q2. Just had a look at the single race option which doesn't include all the races.
Edited by mscaviy2601 on 01-09-2011 10:00
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| Housies |
Posted on 01-09-2011 11:16
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Under 23
Posts: 89
Joined: 31-01-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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ABout the training intensity, I think your max intensity schould be chosen in the week of the race itself. Or for a grand tour, the last 2 weeks.
However, somethimes I decide to not build up to the max intensity but keep it to a level 5. e.g. a good sprinter will be able to make some win's even if he does not reach max fitness. Same goes for a contador who will be able to win 1 week tours without reaching maximum fitness.
This way you can avoid your squad leader to become too tired.
Same goes for your domestiques who don't need max fitness if you only intend to use them as a water boy. |
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| flashchevy14 |
Posted on 01-09-2011 23:21
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Stagiare
Posts: 151
Joined: 24-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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I plan my season with the planner
what is the planner?
Edited by flashchevy14 on 01-09-2011 23:22
I said, ‘Andy if you can go now would be a good moment’, and I got a really angry hate look from him. - Frank Schleck
PCM Online-Chris
youtube- TeamRSH1
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 01-09-2011 23:32
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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That is ridiculas, shouldn't a rider with higher stamina be able to take more than 60 days? |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 01-09-2011 23:43
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Team Leader
Posts: 5759
Joined: 18-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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baseballlover312 wrote:
That is ridiculas, shouldn't a rider with higher stamina be able to take more than 60 days?
They can, they just no longer can hit 100 fitness
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| Treco |
Posted on 22-09-2011 15:40
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Amateur
Posts: 4
Joined: 26-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Well I have to say I don't really like this feature. Take Jakob Fuglsang, this season he have had about a 100 race days and he still did okay in the Vuelta and in the WC IT.
I know it has a place in real life as not all can ride that many days, but it still feels like a game balancing feature to me |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 22-09-2011 15:46
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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You cannot compare the game to real life. This game has much less races, therefore the limit has to be lower.
But the best thing would be if that limit is configurable, so if a DB has way more races, then the value should be increased.
BTW: Your top riders can win races even after they raced 75 race days, so raising that limit is really not necessary.
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| ruben |
Posted on 22-09-2011 16:45
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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More than 60 racedays only affects fatigue and thus maximum fitness levels.
You can still do well enough with far more than 60 racedays. Take for instance my goal of trying to win all 3 GT with Gesink...
Training schedule: level 5 fitness giro, level 6 fitness in 3rd week tour, level 5 fitness vuelta...
Giro
Races prior: Romandie (6 stagse)
Quite easy... on form 95 during the final 2 weeks and won without a problem.
1 Robert Gesink Rabobank 93h52'56
2 Cadel Evans BMC Racing Team + 6'36
3 Michele Scarponi Lampre - Isd + 10'04
4 Ivan Basso Liquigas - Cannondale + 12'03
5 Jelle Vanendert Omega Pharma - Lotto + 12'50
6 Francesco Masciarelli Pro Team Astana + 34'58
7 Marco Pinotti HTC - Highroad + 35'14
8 Jurgen Van Den Broeck Omega Pharma - Lotto + 37'02
9 Peter Velits HTC - Highroad + 39'13
10 Dario Cataldo Quickstep + 41'44
Tour
Races prior: Ster elektrotoer (5 stages), Dutch ITT, Dutch Road champs (2 days)
Meh, Contador was just too strong. With a bit of smart riding I would have finished second. But I played all or nothing to try and win the Tour. Evans and Schleck profited from that. But hey, rather tried and lost than finish 2nd and nothing tried...
First week was build up, second week 95 form last week 99 form but it wasn't enough to beat Alberto. He pulled out 1'45 in the ITT so the diference looks bigger than it actually was in race.
1 Alberto Contador Saxo Bank - Sungard 85h59'25
2 Cadel Evans BMC Racing Team + 1'55
3 Andy Schleck Leopard - Trek + 3'18
4 Robert Gesink Rabobank + 4'05 RumBepalen
5 Jurgen Van Den Broeck Omega Pharma - Lotto + 5'33
6 Bradley Wiggins Sky Pro Cycling + 6'52
7 Samuel Sánchez Euskaltel - Euskadi + 7'52
8 Pierre Rolland Team Europcar + 11'30
9 Chris Horner Team RadioShack + 12'01
10 Michele Scarponi Lampre - Isd + 12'18
Vuelta
Races prior: NONE (!)
I wasn't happy seeing Berto on the participation list. Luckily Contador lost 4'30 in a flat stage early. And then had to attack every mt stage to get time back. He did succeed but Gesink pulled a magnificent number in the stage to Ponferrada. Attacking from 54km out he solo'd to the win 2 minutes ahead of Contador. The GC difference was back to 4 minutes before Somiedo. Contador recuperated 2 minutes but not more. So Gesink won the Vuelta... A bit lucky but we'll take it.
First week fitness was 85pts, 2nd week 95pt 3rd week back to 85pts because of fatigue. Stil reasonable!
1 Robert Gesink Rabobank 89h34'03 RumBepalen
2 Alberto Contador Saxo Bank - Sungard + 2'01
3 Joaquin Rodriguez Katusha Team + 8'41
4 Samuel Sánchez Euskaltel - Euskadi + 8'44
5 Igor Anton Euskaltel - Euskadi + 11'38
6 John Gadret Ag2r La Mondiale + 25'04
7 Tejay Van Garderen HTC - Highroad + 25'09
8 Fränk Schleck Leopard - Trek + 26'05
9 Janez Brajkovic Team RadioShack + 29'41
10 Wout Poels Vacansoleil - DMC Pro Cycling Team + 38'16
Days raced by Gesink: 76
Edited by ruben on 22-09-2011 16:45
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| YvesStevens |
Posted on 22-09-2011 16:46
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1147
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lol roturn^^ |
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| R_Funk |
Posted on 22-09-2011 22:21
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Stagiare
Posts: 186
Joined: 12-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Wow.. nice GT's you did there Ruben. Huge time difference to the other GT contenders. I always am lucky with a top 5 with Gesink  |
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| BlackwaterSaxon |
Posted on 23-09-2011 02:08
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Amateur
Posts: 18
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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I'm currently trying to get to grips with planning my teams races for the season using the season planner, but I have instead opted to take Endura Racing through a complete season.
What do you guys suggest for training schedules, do you make sure that you have your helpers split up so that two are in good form for early season, two for middle and two for late or is it not important?
Also, how do you decide what your team is going to do for the season? I'm running Endura Racing with all of the sponsor races set as well as a few multi-stage and single stage races between them, but compared to the schedule that was selected for me my riders are sitting just under 60 days total race days but with quite big gaps, how do you decide whether you're going to go for GTs and stage races or classics and such? I'm quite new to cycling so I'm unsure how to advance really.
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