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2025 Calendar and the Tour of America
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| ManGame-Admin |
Posted on 16-02-2025 19:43
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 1186
Joined: 28-05-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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With the decision to move to PCM24 finalized we are beginning work on next year's calendar. We are currently planning minimal changes as it doesn't make sense to tweak parcours when every race changes a little under a new game version.
However, we do need to reduce race days as we added some thinking there would be a larger CT last season. Currently our bias for doing that is to shorten the Tour of America to 14 days. It would still score HC points. We recognize that this is a big change so we wanted to get some community input. That isn't to say this is a democracy, but interested in reactions. The 3 main reasons are:
1. It is pretty well recognized that competing in the TOA is a sub-optimal planning strategy. Over the last 3 seasons, the best PCT finish by a team with a podium in the TOA GC is 8th. Over that same time 3 teams have finished on the podium of the TOA and been relegated. Shortening it to 14 days would better balance that and make the TOA more comparable to PT Grand Tours which are fought out by teams at the top of the division.
2. Reporting GTs is a big commitment. Shortening it would reduce that commitment.
3. It reduces the race days without reducing the variety of races available which supports varied team building and rider development strategies.
4. There are far fewer stages available for the TOA so having a shorter race will make keeping the parcours fresh easier.
Feel free to vote and/or post thoughts in the thread. If you have other strong feelings on the calendar please PM Ulrich or Abhi directly - this thread is for the TOA change. |
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| seancoll |
Posted on 16-02-2025 21:45
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Domestique
Posts: 541
Joined: 20-12-2022
PCM$: 500.00
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I haven't been here for long - so take what I'm sharing with a grain of salt - But I see TOA as the CT Grand Tour. Part of me would be interested in seeing ToA as a mandatory C1 race for CT teams and making it optional for PCT (option for PCT would be dependent on CT team numbers).
But regardless of decisions on length, requirements, etc. Full support for whatever is done to make it better for the game.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 15-03-2025 05:50
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| kandesbunzler26 |
Posted on 16-02-2025 22:09
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1321
Joined: 07-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I'd say the biggest issue is what's stated in point 1. In addition to what has been said last season only one competing CT team got a PpRD ratio of 8+ (which was required to fight for promotion) out of this race - and it took 4 stage wins, some podiums and a long KoM reign for that (I have to know  ). That's not just bragging but also shows that the format as it is is one for those managers willing to sacrifice power play for role play reasons - and that's also the main reason why I skip the race this season in order to get the points needed to stay in PCT in more and shorter races instead of risk wasting the precious RDs of my leaders for some rather minor HC points (especially if you're not in the podium fight).
That said I want to state that I really like the idea of a GT for the lower divisions, but maybe a combination of a shorter race and seans idea of a mandatory race would be a better way of approaching this: How about a mandatory 14-day HC ToA for the PCT (maybe even with PTHC points to make it attractive for the best riders of the division)? So taking part in this is no longer a risk, but you have to go through the same roster selection process as PT teams for their GTs (at least kind of). And then make Vuelta al Tachira (for example) the corresponding race for CT: also mandatory (and closed for PCT teams) and with a C1 points scale.
I'm not sure all of this would work, but maybe it could give ToA (and a potential CT equivalent) more of a real GT importance.
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| Jakstar22 |
Posted on 17-02-2025 00:00
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Team Leader
Posts: 7341
Joined: 11-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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I like the idea of having a mandatory shorter GT for CT and PCT. ToA for PCT and then like Tachira or bringing Portugal (which is a long race anyway) as the CT mandatory race. Could make it have certain restrictions for the riders that race so that it is fair more exciting and seen as a kind of warm up for those teams that end up making the PT (for experience in certain selections ect).
Not sure if that makes sense but could add a fun dynamic. This is also coming from someone that regularly picks the ToA thinking I can win it and get promoted even though its more likely for my story telling reasons  )
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| redordead |
Posted on 17-02-2025 06:41
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5028
Joined: 18-10-2017
PCM$: 200.00
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For points 2), 3) and 4) if it makes organisation much easier then I don't have a problem with it. Otherwise I don't like the change, especially if ToA became mandatory in PCT/CT. I'm actually looking forward if I don't need to attend a Grand Tour next season.
"I am a cyclist, I may not be the best, but that is what I strive to be. I may never get there, but I will never quit trying." - Tadej Pogačar
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| jt1109 |
Posted on 17-02-2025 09:04
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3288
Joined: 23-07-2008
PCM$: 400.00
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Think making a 14 day GT in CT and PCT mandatory is a great idea giving
HC scoring PCT
C1 scoring CT
is the way to go think losing the tour of America is a real shame but have to do whats in the best interest of the game sometimes and shaving some days off the calender is the way to go imo |
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 17-02-2025 10:15
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Team Manager
Posts: 6600
Joined: 14-09-2008
PCM$: 1290.00
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I haven't fully thought this through, but if we want to keep a GT for the lower divisions (which I think is good thing) but address point #1 (which is a real problem imo), could it be an option to keep it a three week race but simply charge teams just 14 race days for it (or any other number that makes sense)? Given that we agree that competing in the ToA currently is a competitive disadvantage, I think from a fairness perspective it would be fine with the right balancing. It might set an odd precedent, but it is a pretty unique case, after all. Though it doesn't alleviate the burden on reporters, of course.
Otherwise, I'd be happy with two 14 day races in PCT and CT, mandatory or not. Both have their interesting pros and cons imo.
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| Roman |
Posted on 17-02-2025 10:40
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4406
Joined: 29-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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I like the idea to have a mandatory 2-week mini GT for both PCT and CT, giving out PT race category points. Think there could be 2 special bands as a HC race available for both PCT and CT.
Joining Tour of America it could be Vuelta a Colombia (or even La Vuelta Americana) as a race in South America or an expanded Tour Down Under, Tour de Suisse or Deutschland Tour, where it could be easier to find a variety of stages.
1. These two races would become a priority race for all teams involved.
2. Shorter GT would bring in better fields than ToA.
3. Would help CT teams with young riders development without ruining the attractivity of PT loans.
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 17-02-2025 11:30
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2967
Joined: 09-05-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Roman wrote:
I like the idea to have a mandatory 2-week mini GT for both PCT and CT, giving out PT race category points. Think there could be 2 special bands as a HC race available for both PCT and CT.
Joining Tour of America it could be Vuelta a Colombia (or even La Vuelta Americana) as a race in South America or an expanded Tour Down Under, Tour de Suisse or Deutschland Tour, where it could be easier to find a variety of stages.
1. These two races would become a priority race for all teams involved.
2. Shorter GT would bring in better fields than ToA.
3. Would help CT teams with young riders development without ruining the attractivity of PT loans.
I will add Balkans International as well
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 17-02-2025 14:28
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World Champion
Posts: 14738
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 10300.00
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ToA is unpopular now, because of the things you say. But if you make it more interesting pointwise, it will become oversubscribed very easily.
I like the idea of 2 PCT/CT GT's of 14 days where you have to pick one similar to how the PTHC bands are selected right now. It could be one "classic" GT and another with more focus on hills, a cobbled stage, no TT, just some variations.
I wouldn't mind seeing the ICL approach to GTs, it could make things easier for the reporters.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| DaveTwoBob |
Posted on 17-02-2025 15:51
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2448
Joined: 07-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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ToA was always a RP choice for me but its not a good choice for a promotion contender. A 2 week version seems a sensible choice and PCT teams can always apply for a GT wildcard if they want a 3 week fix.
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 17-02-2025 16:04
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2967
Joined: 09-05-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Shortening the ToA to 14 RD IMO also presents an unique opportunity for teams to use all of the maximum RD allowed for stagiaires. Lets say a CT team decides to sign up for ToA next year and keep 2 rider slots for 4 stags (the maximum number allowed as per transfer rules unless that changes down the line). C1 gives 2.1 XP (assuming that this race will only use the HC points scale) per RD which is nearly 30 XP. The downside is that compared to entering stags in C2 races means around 15 XP less, but putting them in ToA will allow teams to not worry about putting them in other races. The question would be if the 15 XP sacrifice is worth it.
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| sammyt93 |
Posted on 17-02-2025 19:55
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3648
Joined: 03-07-2012
PCM$: 300.00
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Roman wrote:
I like the idea to have a mandatory 2-week mini GT for both PCT and CT, giving out PT race category points. Think there could be 2 special bands as a HC race available for both PCT and CT.
Joining Tour of America it could be Vuelta a Colombia (or even La Vuelta Americana) as a race in South America or an expanded Tour Down Under, Tour de Suisse or Deutschland Tour, where it could be easier to find a variety of stages.
1. These two races would become a priority race for all teams involved.
2. Shorter GT would bring in better fields than ToA.
3. Would help CT teams with young riders development without ruining the attractivity of PT loans.
Vuelta Tachira has traditionally been a long South American based C2 race, turning that into a South American 14 day race would probably make the most sense and allow me to attend the new race whilst keeping my streak going lol.
On that note if a 14 day C2 race was to exist it would be cool to have 14 mandatory C2 days for PCT teams but with the same current team strength restrictions so it would be a gamble to get a top 10 there with the extra points on the line.
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 18-02-2025 01:25
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 3423
Joined: 02-11-2010
PCM$: 300.00
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Consensus on the poll seems to be people are OK with this. Most of the discussion is around a mandatory GT for PCT/CT. I like this idea but it would require a more complete re-organization of the calendar, Not sure that is on the cards now but might be in future seasons. Will leave that to others.
If we did want another 14-day GT I would be inclined to do a Tour of Asia/Australasia, as I think it offers the biggest range of terrains. The TOA has been covering all of the Americas lately.
I think the question was raised if this made the race too attractive - I did some math on this. Below is the PPrD for Eastman, McNulty and Powless comparing their TOA scoring to their scoring in other races, compared to what they would have scored if they put up the same points in a 14-day TOA (thanks to Fab for the great point breakouts).
| Other | 21 Day TOA | 14 Day TOA | | Eastman | 29.1 | 18.2 | 27.4 | | McNulty | 22.7 | 16.5 | 24.8 | | Powless | 9.9 | 11.6 | 17.4 |
For Eastman and McNulty it puts the TOA similar to their other race days. For Powless a lot better. I am not sure it is a slam dunk to go here even with a 14 day race. Keeping in mind the scores would actually go down due to less stage points, Powless is a relatively weak rider to finish 3rd and that the scoring was more concentrated in 2023 given only 7 PCT teams went.
Apologies for concentrating on PCT but I think that is where the score imbalance is the biggest issue.
I am fine with Cunego's idea as well but do think the burden on administrative aspects is also a factor
Man Game: McCormick Pro Cycling |
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