For the DB, with there being training eligible and Avenir eligible rider columns would it be possible to add in a CT eligible column to help PCT teams see which riders are too good and which ones are eligible for their mandatory C2 racedays?
Probably too late for this years DB but would definitely make things easier in terms of knowing who has that extra value of potential leader in the C2 outings and who would be just a PCT Domestique.
Basically you can filter all riders below the OVL limit and get the same.
Though then you still need to check the TT/PRL/COB stat as well to limit to 76 max. As this only counts for specific terrain races, it`s hard to give a yes or no in the DB excel file.
@low trainings. Actually I considered something like your idea as well yesterday. No regular limit for trainings but a limit on the small trainings.
Except your last green part, not sure it must necessarily be same stat, but same rider having two small trainings, the second will be doubled? Probably as we talk about 60s training, it doesn't matter a lot really. Another thing to maybe check how much it is used and how much the stat balance is changed.
The last green came from rules questions in prior seasons where it was said that the extra cost only applied to a second increase on the same stat. I don't feel strongly either way but was just trying to make it clear which it was.
I am fine with the level 4 xp being added in C1 if the math works. Although the other hesitation would be that to maximize it CT teams would have to ride C1 races they might not otherwise want to. Whereas C2 they probably ride a enough regardless but given the number of C1 days CT teams now do maybe not a big deal.
roturn wrote:
I would right now expect to see CT gain around 30-40 xp in average while PCT is like additional 5-15 xp in average, which imo would be okay values. As many level 4 riders aren't at 4.0 but instead already between 4.20-4.50, this would still be 2 seasons for CT while many CT teams actually will promote and have one PCT season as well in a 2-year span to make it possible even more
Sorry but I just wanted to highlight this section, and the assumption many Lvl 4 riders in CT sit at 4.20-.50 instead of 4.00, which is not my experience at all when carrying over year-to-year in the CT.
Yes if you rode PCT and relegated, you could reasonably expect 4.20 as a starting XP level for your CT season. As a continuing CT team, this is basically an impossible expectation.
As currently neither C1 nor C2 give XP, as soon as you roll from 3.99 to 4.00 you gain zero further XP unless you've gone for an HC race (but please, tell me which CT teams are signed up for the 40HC RD needed to gain 20 lvl 4 XP). That's why as a realistic working example my four riders who turned from Lvl3 to 4 this off-season are sat at 4.00 and not 4.20.
Granted once the system is in place, you would add the C2 XP first to go from 3>4, so left over C1 RD XP would count directly to Lvl 4 growth. However again the actual RD to XP numbers don't fully support the working theory.
If i took Tyler Cole as a pretty normal example, he begins this season at 3.36 (not my highest lvl 3, not my lowest, feels relatively average). He has 81 RD and no Avenir option. 59 C2 race days to get to Lvl 4.0, leaving 22 C1 RD at 0.5 lvl4 xp would total out at 4.11. In 2024 a full 81 C1 RD would get him to 4.51, 2025 to 4.91, and a third year to 4.100. (I will note for Ortega at 3.76 it would be two years, but for white at 3.09 it could even stretch another year. Or Kelly who has less RD than Cole and less starting XP so wouldn't get to 4.11 to begin with rolling into another year of development). [please double check my math, as there could be a rounding error or two in there]
Basically I just don't want a system that relies on promotion to PCT to actually achieve the goal of developing in the CT. Seems somewhat to undermine the endeavour of the proposed changes, where you can self develop a rider to 4.100 in the PCT in two years currently anyway.
Actually came here to response to Ulrich, that leveling up a lvl4 in CT still is not supposed to be very easy and that CT managers would indeed need to go for a C1/HC schedule for lvl4 riders, which means, bigger races = bigger xp, which is why C1 makes more sense than C2.
Seen your post now, TMM, and must agree, was on mobile yesterday and only took the average of CT lvl4 riders, not taking care enough as I should have taken 2022 CT managers only and not including the relegating teams, which obviously higher the average.
Now thinking about a middle way and adding something, that was suggested before.
e.g. CT level 4 riders get fix 20xp, see it as kind of road captain bonus, teacher for talents in lower categories etc.
Then keep it at 0,5 HC and 0,5 C1 as above.
This would make it 40xp in 2 years CT plus the realistic 30-40xp per season in C1/HC events. So even for teams not promoting to PCT, they would be able to do the 4-max in 2 seasons CT.
roturn wrote:
Actually came here to response to Ulrich, that leveling up a lvl4 in CT still is not supposed to be very easy and that CT managers would indeed need to go for a C1/HC schedule for lvl4 riders, which means, bigger races = bigger xp, which is why C1 makes more sense than C2.
Seen your post now, TMM, and must agree, was on mobile yesterday and only took the average of CT lvl4 riders, not taking care enough as I should have taken 2022 CT managers only and not including the relegating teams, which obviously higher the average.
Now thinking about a middle way and adding something, that was suggested before.
e.g. CT level 4 riders get fix 20xp, see it as kind of road captain bonus, teacher for talents in lower categories etc.
Then keep it at 0,5 HC and 0,5 C1 as above.
This would make it 40xp in 2 years CT plus the realistic 30-40xp per season in C1/HC events. So even for teams not promoting to PCT, they would be able to do the 4-max in 2 seasons CT.
To me that sounds really good and kinda reasonable. So as CT Team you can still go the fast way to loan out to higher division and transfer maybe some money there. I dont see any harm with this being implemented and also with this there might be some riders lvled up which usually wouldnt because PCT and especially PT dont see the benefits from it.
I'd definitely have loved that when I joined the game - would have allowed me to level up Masnada in-house once I was unable to get a loan for him in the first season...
So the 0.5XP for C1 would benefit both CT and PCT teams, whereas the "road captain bonus" would apply only to CT teams - sounds fair to me. Level 4 riders aren't Avenir eligible and good ones don't have so many RDs that they suddenly could be maxed within one year, so I don't see any major drawbacks here.
The only (potentially) negative point would be that PCT teams would have free choice between HC and C1 races to pick the most suited for their talents - but most of them have to ride some PTHC races anyway to get enough XP.
roturn wrote:
Seen your post now, TMM, and must agree, was on mobile yesterday and only took the average of CT lvl4 riders, not taking care enough as I should have taken 2022 CT managers only and not including the relegating teams, which obviously higher the average.
It's cool, an easy miss to make unless you're actually in the CT back-to-back making those calculations. Meant to get in on the discussion earlier but kept forgetting
The fixed 20 Lvl4 XP gets around that issue well, operating like an Avenir bonus. Possibly makes it a little too easy for a relegating PCT team, who can add that 20xp onto a rider that could be up at 4.80 or higher, and then not have to make the C1 vs C2 planning challenge (how to spend 40 RD out of what could be 60 RD total for a rider would be a big challenge, made a total non-element now). But i'm kind of nitpicking here on edge cases - which is so hate to do normally.
Lets try it. One year isn't going to screw things up that bad, oh no some PT teams might not make 100k in loan fees and some CT team might get two riders maxed too easily, panic!!!
[And as the CT continues to be the division with the highest manager turnover, lowest number of races etc we should continue to find ways to make it more enjoyable beyond "but you can promote"]
I have a Suggestion!
Maybe It would be a good idea to open a Suggestion Thread for 2024 right after the season started. So there would be enough time to think about, discuss and fine-tune the ideas.
Ezeefreak wrote:
I have a Suggestion!
Maybe It would be a good idea to open a Suggestion Thread for 2024 right after the season started. So there would be enough time to think about, discuss and fine-tune the ideas.
Great suggestion
Also I think we might need some deadlines for suggestions.
Something like:
Suggestions for the 2024 season can happen between 17.08.2023 and 01.02.2024.
At the 01.02.2024 a Taskforce is set to work with the suggestions that seem relevant, and try to imply them.
By 01.04.2024 all new implementations for 2004 is announced.
To me the proces seems too fluent, which makes it difficult to really implement stuff.
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
