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Tour de France 2023
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| iNSUPERABLE |
Posted on 18-07-2023 16:46
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Stagiare
Posts: 159
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Alien performance ! Congrats, hope Pog and Jonas get a little bit more competition from other riders like Ayuso and Remco |
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| quadsas |
Posted on 18-07-2023 16:49
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Small Tour Specialist
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Jumbo balanced diet working as intended. this is literally like 10 times better TT performance than any other in history. Overconfidence in their methods should come to bite them, this is just way too obvious 
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| kubys |
Posted on 18-07-2023 16:49
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Domestique
Posts: 699
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Juice
Die hard fan of Tom Boonen and Quickstep since 2004.
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| Thor Hushovd |
Posted on 18-07-2023 16:51
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Under 23
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Beautiful! Funny to see all the Pogacar fans on twitter who complained about the motorbike mentioning doping now. |
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| quadsas |
Posted on 18-07-2023 16:53
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Small Tour Specialist
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Thor Hushovd wrote:
Beautiful! Funny to see all the Pogacar fans on twitter who complained about the motorbike mentioning doping now.
I am pretty sure people been calling Jumbo massive dopers for years now (every team dopes of course, but Jumbo is just so outrageously obvious and much better at it than others).
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| SotD |
Posted on 18-07-2023 17:02
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World Champion
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Yes it’s suspecious that a rider who solely focus on the Tour beat a rider WHO’s on 99% top level all year long, for 4 years straight, coming to chase the win after breaking his hand in the ardennes keeping him out of race practice…
One is definately more doped than the other.
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| Thor Hushovd |
Posted on 18-07-2023 17:05
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Under 23
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quadsas wrote:
Thor Hushovd wrote:
Beautiful! Funny to see all the Pogacar fans on twitter who complained about the motorbike mentioning doping now.
I am pretty sure people been calling Jumbo massive dopers for years now (every team dopes of course, but Jumbo is just so outrageously obvious and much better at it than others).
You missed the point here buddy. Try reading my post again, but I'll be nice. They're either both doping, or none of them are. So the guys who were quiet in 20 and 21 but loudmouths now was the ironic part I was talking about. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 06-12-2025 18:37
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Bot Agent
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| iNSUPERABLE |
Posted on 18-07-2023 17:07
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Stagiare
Posts: 159
Joined: 03-04-2012
PCM$: 260.00
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SotD wrote:
Yes it’s suspecious that a rider who solely focus on the Tour beat a rider WHO’s on 99% top level all year long, for 4 years straight, coming to chase the win after breaking his hand in the ardennes keeping him out of race practice…
One is definately more doped than the other.
i am suprised no one ever talks about that, you can't win ronde, amstel and fleche and then compete at 100% in the TdF |
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| Ezeefreak |
Posted on 18-07-2023 17:09
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Domestique
Posts: 700
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What an impressive perfomance by Vingegaard. If you look at the race it wasnt also pure strength. Not changing the bike gained alone 15 seconds and also he was taking way more risk while riding and i think this was also at least like 30 seconds.
If you ask about my personal opinion and preferences I would still say Pogacar is the better (and also more fun) overall rider. BUT Vingegaard is just the better STage racer at this moment. He has the better physical gifts in that aspect and feels a bit more like "oldschool" riders who solely focus on Grand tours. That may be boring but succesfull and today was also fun to watch.
Cant wait Remco join these two also because he is a different kind of beast than the other 2 and this would be even more fun. And there is so much more talented riders in the future, great time for cycling. I hope this wont be crushed like almost 2 centuries ago 
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| quadsas |
Posted on 18-07-2023 17:09
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2728
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SotD wrote:
Yes it’s suspecious that a rider who solely focus on the Tour beat a rider WHO’s on 99% top level all year long, for 4 years straight, coming to chase the win after breaking his hand in the ardennes keeping him out of race practice…
One is definately more doped than the other.
Beating Pogacar is not the problem. the numbers are. They are impossible unless you are literally the greatest time trialist who has ever lived and by a massive margin (and this guy couldnt even beat Bjerg in uphill TT this year). Pogacar did insane numbers too, and Vingegaard destroyed them.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 18-07-2023 17:10
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World Champion
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This is cycling, guys, every performance must be taken with a grain of salt. Especially out of this world performances like today. Or a GT rider winning Ronde van Vlaanderen.
I don't mind people accusing Jumbo or Vingegaard of doping. But it's hilarious when fanboys of equally suspicious teams or riders do it.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 18-07-2023 17:11
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15024
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Impressive Vingegaard today, simply amading. Should be in the bag now. Sadly focussing on one race will become the standard again now. Pogacar will be forced to skip classics if he wants to beat this Vingegaard.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Ezeefreak |
Posted on 18-07-2023 17:13
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Domestique
Posts: 700
Joined: 06-07-2009
PCM$: 300.00
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quadsas wrote:
SotD wrote:
Yes it’s suspecious that a rider who solely focus on the Tour beat a rider WHO’s on 99% top level all year long, for 4 years straight, coming to chase the win after breaking his hand in the ardennes keeping him out of race practice…
One is definately more doped than the other.
Beating Pogacar is not the problem. the numbers are. They are impossible unless you are literally the greatest time trialist who has ever lived and by a massive margin (and this guy couldnt even beat Bjerg in uphill TT this year). Pogacar did insane numbers too, and Vingegaard destroyed them.
This was stage 16. This isnt anymore about your skills in one discipline. It's about recovering, stamina and all these physical gifts. If this would be a one day race and everyone prepared the right way I am sure Pogacar and Vingegaard would have barely taken a spot in the top 10.
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| whitejersey |
Posted on 18-07-2023 17:15
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3221
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quadsas wrote:
SotD wrote:
Yes it’s suspecious that a rider who solely focus on the Tour beat a rider WHO’s on 99% top level all year long, for 4 years straight, coming to chase the win after breaking his hand in the ardennes keeping him out of race practice…
One is definately more doped than the other.
Beating Pogacar is not the problem. the numbers are. They are impossible unless you are literally the greatest time trialist who has ever lived and by a massive margin (and this guy couldnt even beat Bjerg in uphill TT this year). Pogacar did insane numbers too, and Vingegaard destroyed them.
You mean the Mikkel Bjerg who literally won 3 U23 ITT World Championships in a row and finally got the ITT stage win at WT level that everyone have been waiting for since he signed with UAE? Pretty much every race Bjerg goes to on the WT he has to save himself to work for Pogacar and he didn't have to do that for Dauphine. Other example this year is him finishing 7th in Romandie.
Vingegaard also donated the win to Wout last year in the Tour where he probably would have put a solid amount of time into Tadej Pogacar. We also don't see Vingegaard race a lot of TTs over the course of a season and his goal is always to peak in the Tour so I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't at 100% in Dauphine.
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| quadsas |
Posted on 18-07-2023 17:41
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2728
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whitejersey wrote:
quadsas wrote:
SotD wrote:
Yes it’s suspecious that a rider who solely focus on the Tour beat a rider WHO’s on 99% top level all year long, for 4 years straight, coming to chase the win after breaking his hand in the ardennes keeping him out of race practice…
One is definately more doped than the other.
Beating Pogacar is not the problem. the numbers are. They are impossible unless you are literally the greatest time trialist who has ever lived and by a massive margin (and this guy couldnt even beat Bjerg in uphill TT this year). Pogacar did insane numbers too, and Vingegaard destroyed them.
You mean the Mikkel Bjerg who literally won 3 U23 ITT World Championships in a row and finally got the ITT stage win at WT level that everyone have been waiting for since he signed with UAE? Pretty much every race Bjerg goes to on the WT he has to save himself to work for Pogacar and he didn't have to do that for Dauphine. Other example this year is him finishing 7th in Romandie.
Vingegaard also donated the win to Wout last year in the Tour where he probably would have put a solid amount of time into Tadej Pogacar. We also don't see Vingegaard race a lot of TTs over the course of a season and his goal is always to peak in the Tour so I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't at 100% in Dauphine.
reading really is very hard
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 18-07-2023 17:45
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3837
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I just want to say I'm amazed by Pedersen getting a top-10 in this time trial, superb stuff from him. I knew he was a decent time trialist, but to compete with the best stage racers like this (and WVA/Cavagna) really is fantastic.
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| quadsas |
Posted on 18-07-2023 17:50
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2728
Joined: 18-01-2013
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quadsas wrote:
whitejersey wrote:
quadsas wrote:
SotD wrote:
Yes it’s suspecious that a rider who solely focus on the Tour beat a rider WHO’s on 99% top level all year long, for 4 years straight, coming to chase the win after breaking his hand in the ardennes keeping him out of race practice…
One is definately more doped than the other.
Beating Pogacar is not the problem. the numbers are. They are impossible unless you are literally the greatest time trialist who has ever lived and by a massive margin (and this guy couldnt even beat Bjerg in uphill TT this year). Pogacar did insane numbers too, and Vingegaard destroyed them.
You mean the Mikkel Bjerg who literally won 3 U23 ITT World Championships in a row and finally got the ITT stage win at WT level that everyone have been waiting for since he signed with UAE? Pretty much every race Bjerg goes to on the WT he has to save himself to work for Pogacar and he didn't have to do that for Dauphine. Other example this year is him finishing 7th in Romandie.
Vingegaard also donated the win to Wout last year in the Tour where he probably would have put a solid amount of time into Tadej Pogacar. We also don't see Vingegaard race a lot of TTs over the course of a season and his goal is always to peak in the Tour so I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't at 100% in Dauphine.
reading really is very hard
to put it into perspective even though you completely missed my point, if Vingegaard rode like he did today, he would've beated Bjerg by 3 minutes in 37minute timetrial
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| SotD |
Posted on 18-07-2023 17:54
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World Champion
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What is your point actually? Vingegaard is obviously a better rider/TT’er than Bjerg. They are not even on the same planet…
Bjerg won 3 U23 TTT Championships mainly because his worst rivals turned professional while he kept riding U23. He was never the best timetriallist in even that age-comparison.
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| quadsas |
Posted on 18-07-2023 18:00
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2728
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SotD wrote:
What is your point actually? Vingegaard is obviously a better rider/TT’er than Bjerg. They are not even on the same planet…
Bjerg won 3 U23 TTT Championships mainly because his worst rivals turned professional while he kept riding U23. He was never the best timetriallist in even that age-comparison.
My point is literally in the initial post. That this supposed greatest timetrialist of all time (according to today) couldnt beat Bjerg in an uphill timetrial just a few months ago
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| SotD |
Posted on 18-07-2023 18:16
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World Champion
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quadsas wrote:
SotD wrote:
What is your point actually? Vingegaard is obviously a better rider/TT’er than Bjerg. They are not even on the same planet…
Bjerg won 3 U23 TTT Championships mainly because his worst rivals turned professional while he kept riding U23. He was never the best timetriallist in even that age-comparison.
My point is literally in the initial post. That this supposed greatest timetrialist of all time (according to today) couldnt beat Bjerg in an uphill timetrial just a few months ago
So the point is basically to underline your lack of knowledge about timing your efforts?
Jonas Vingegaard was not on 100% during the Dauphine. He also had limited reasons to go flat out, as his win was not exactly jeopardized at any point.
Last season Vingegaard was also significantly faster than Pogacar in the final timetrial, but he didn't have any incitament to win the stage as it was his teammate who was in the hot seat, while he already had won the race unless he was to lose 3 minutes. So he rode controlled for most of the race, yet still shattering his opponents, only to then sit up entirely in the end.
Today Vingegaard won because he was the strongest, most risk-taking and because Pogacar didn't climb up to his normal level. He did the climb not only slower than a full-throttle Ciccone, but also slower than his teammate Adam Yates. Pogacar on normal level would have cut something like 20-30 seconds off the gap.
Still a massive performance by Vingegaard, but looking at how he performed last year I really don't get why people are surprised that he beat Pogacar by ~50-60 seconds. The rest is on Pogacar not riding to perfection.
Earlier this season, when Vingegaard had no reasons to be in shape, he destroyed Rohan Dennis on an 18km Rohan Dennis parcours.
Already in 2021, before he became even remotely close to his current level, he showed that he was among the very best Timetriallists in the world, being beaten only by Roglic and McNulty - but beating the upcoming World Champion Foss in Basque Country, while taking two consequtive 3rd places in the Tour de France, easily beating both Pogacar and Bjerg in the 3rd week timetrial, on a parcours that was not exactly in his favour. Pan-cake flat. In the start of the race he also blew van Aert and Bjerg behind, despite him not being the leader of the team. He was actually also better than Roglic there.
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