Welcome to the new thread where you can discuss the stats for the PCM.daily Projects for PCM 23.
Everything commented here will be considered for the next releases of our projects.
Keep in mind that while top stats are the most noticeable stats, for us it's especially useful to discuss stats about smaller riders, those are often easier to miss.
Rules
1. If you comment on someone's post, comment on the contents of the post, not on the person!
2. Don't make fun of suggestions of other members. Everyone can post their suggestions. It's up to our statmakers to decide what to do with them.
3. Keep your posts strictly on-topic.
Any posts that violate these rules will be deleted immediately and without notification. Consistent violation of the rules could result in suspension or even a ban.
Edited by cunego59 on 12-06-2023 14:12
jacob_lion wrote:
Does Anyone what database editors work for PCM 2023?
Neither PCM fast editor og PCM Tools by Davys work any more for PCM 2023. They worked great for PCM 2022.
Hope someone can help.
PCM Fast Editor still works, here I edited WVA with fast Editor https://imgur.com...
For me, it worked 2 days ago, after the 3rd or 4th time reinstalling, and now it it again unable to save/export anything. Edit: After testing multiple saves from the weekly saves folder, only some of them dont work.
Edited by MarvinEhre on 04-07-2023 09:35
Shame PCM is being played less and less each year. I remember 15 years ago a lively community, even 3-4 years ago it was a lot more active. Anyway, thanks for always making this DB.
Just to get some discussion going, I'll share my thoughts on current GC contenders.
These are all the riders that I believe have a shot at winning any of the 3 grand tours.
I've changed (all) their stats to what I believe to be the best in-game representation of real-life performance. So don't go crazy at the Hill stat as it's only used from 88+ effort and represents the maximum uphill speed that rider can attain. Pure MO is used up till 77 then mixes with MM being used from ~77 to ~87. At 82 effort, it's 50/50 for MO/MM. At 87 it's Pure MM.
Of course, Flat, TT and especially REC are important in PCM 23 (STA and RES only do something when green bar drops below 67%).
Based on a somewhat crude x5 x3 x2 or x1 multiplier for how important each of these stats are according to me (besides just the stats themself, this is also up to debate) I've been able to create something I call the GC stat (simply a combination of all stats timed by their multiplier and then divided again)
MO 5x
MM 2x
Hill 1x
Fla 1x
TT 3x
Rec 3x
Total
GC stat
Pogacar
405
166
83
78
234
246
1212
80,80
Vingegaard
415
162
78
74
231
249
1209
80,60
Roglic
400
164
82
76
231
237
1190
79,33
Evenepoel
395
162
82
80
243
225
1187
79,13
Thomas
405
152
77
77
234
234
1179
78,60
Hart
400
156
78
73
231
231
1169
77,93
Mas
400
158
78
75
222
234
1167
77,80
Almeida
405
152
77
76
231
228
1169
77,93
Carapaz
400
158
78
72
216
240
1164
77,60
Rodriguez
400
158
78
75
222
225
1158
77,20
Hindley
400
158
79
72
207
237
1153
76,87
Vine
400
156
77
71
222
219
1145
76,33
Kuss
410
152
77
70
204
228
1141
76,07
I really like the results for the GC stat (I just did this as an afterthought) to me it gives a really good representation of who's most likely to win any given GC.
Pogi and Vingegaard are head and shoulders above everyone else.
Roglic, Evenepoel, and Thomas are the main favorites if the top 2 aren't there.
A TT-heavy parcours definitely favors Remco and would see him ranked slightly higher than currently.
After that it becomes harder to judge, most of them are really close in real life as well and can win any GT if the terrain suits them or who's luckier or in better form.
Edited by Ho0liGaN on 11-07-2023 01:41
Ho0liGaN wrote:
Shame PCM is being played less and less each year. I remember 15 years ago a lively community, even 3-4 years ago it was a lot more active. Anyway, thanks for always making this DB.
Just to get some discussion going, I'll share my thoughts on current GC contenders.
These are all the riders that I believe have a shot at winning any of the 3 grand tours.
I've changed (all) their stats to what I believe to be the best in-game representation of real-life performance. So don't go crazy at the Hill stat as it's only used from 88+ effort and represents the maximum uphill speed that rider can attain. Pure MO is used up till 77 then mixes with MM being used from ~77 to ~87. At 82 effort, it's 50/50 for MO/MM. At 87 it's Pure MM.
Of course, Flat, TT and especially REC are important in PCM 23 (STA and RES only do something when green bar drops below 67%).
Based on a somewhat crude x5 x3 x2 or x1 multiplier for how important each of these stats are according to me (besides just the stats themself, this is also up to debate) I've been able to create something I call the GC stat (simply a combination of all stats timed by their multiplier and then divided again)
MO 5x
MM 2x
Hill 1x
Fla 1x
TT 3x
Rec 3x
Total
GC stat
Pogacar
405
166
83
78
234
246
1212
80,80
Vingegaard
415
162
78
74
231
249
1209
80,60
Roglic
400
164
82
76
231
237
1190
79,33
Evenepoel
395
162
82
80
243
225
1187
79,13
Thomas
405
152
77
77
234
234
1179
78,60
Hart
400
156
78
73
231
231
1169
77,93
Mas
400
158
78
75
222
234
1167
77,80
Almeida
405
152
77
76
231
228
1169
77,93
Carapaz
400
158
78
72
216
240
1164
77,60
Rodriguez
400
158
78
75
222
225
1158
77,20
Hindley
400
158
79
72
207
237
1153
76,87
Vine
400
156
77
71
222
219
1145
76,33
Kuss
410
152
77
70
204
228
1141
76,07
I really like the results for the GC stat (I just did this as an afterthought) to me it gives a really good representation of who's most likely to win any given GC.
Pogi and Vingegaard are head and shoulders above everyone else.
Roglic, Evenepoel, and Thomas are the main favorites if the top 2 aren't there.
A TT-heavy parcours definitely favors Remco and would see him ranked slightly higher than currently.
After that it becomes harder to judge, most of them are really close in real life as well and can win any GT if the terrain suits them or who's luckier or in better form.
Thanks for posting this and we have worked our climbing stats using a similar formula as this with the emphasis still being on main mountain but we have made heavy use of the medium mountain stat as well. We have had problems with Remco due to his TT and high backup stats as well and have constantly changed his stats: We have thought of giving him 78/82/80, 79/81/81 and the one I most favour 79/82/80 because we still really don't know how he is on a longer climbs in a GT under pressure from other top GT riders, we nearly found out last year in the Vuelta till Roglic crashed and we know he had to abandon the Giro this year as well, so we still don't really know.
What we do know of course is that Pogacar and Vingegaard are a world above the others with possibly only Roglic able to come close to them and we have worked the climbing stats to reflect this. As for other riders like Thomas we have gone for higher mountain but lesser medium mountain and hill etc
We have worked this formula through most of the riders in the DB with climbing stats of 70 and above and with the sprinters as well.
irdalopez wrote:
Will we have an update when we finish Lombardy?
There is now a new update just released and after this attention will switch to the 2024 season. There might be a possibility though of a final stats update after Lombardia.
We've done more testing with the stats over the last several months than ever before. We've tested multiple Tour de France and races like Flanders, Roubaix and LBL etc and these were done in both pure test mode (all random form and RDC deactivated and also with these options activated as well for contrast)
Pogacar with 81/82/82 was able to win 75% of all TDF because of his huge sta/res which can't be lowered as he needs this to win in classics, Vingegaard because of his lower sta/res needs very high climbing stats as so far he is not a classics rider and he was able to win the other 25%, so if Pogacar is raised anymore he will probably win 100% unless of course random form is used and he has bad form. Remco like Pogacar has huge sta/res and even higher flat and TT and in testing with even 78 mtn was able to finish second more times than Vingegaard and at 77 mtn was easily the third best ahead of Roglic it was only when he was reduced to 76 mtn and Roglic increased to 83 med that Roglic was the third best and Remco the fourth. We have to assume still that Remco is the fourth best in a TDF until he gets a huge result. ,
Edited by Tafiolmo on 28-04-2024 21:55
In the classics giving Pogacar 83 cobble would be a nightmare as he would win a huge amount of Roubaix as well as Flanders. Even with 79 cobble in testing he was able to win Roubaix and so far we have no idea how he would do at Roubaix.
The object of the cobble testing was also to separate Roubaix cobble riders (big cobble and flat) and Flanders cobble riders (good climbing stats) and those that are good at both a combination of these two, which is why riders like Pogacar, Powless and Madaous are able to do well at Flanders but not so well at Roubaix, while riders like Degenkolb and Rex are going to be better at Roubaix and not so good at Flanders
Grand Tour testing proved to be easier than classics with problem races being Milan San-Remo, Flanders and LBL whereas races like Roubaix have been very easy to test.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 28-04-2024 22:00
