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Suggestions for 2023
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| Ezeefreak |
Posted on 25-06-2023 12:16
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Domestique
Posts: 555
Joined: 06-07-2009
PCM$: 300.00
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Again I am here with something to suggest 
Relegation/Promotion with disbands
I dont like the current system were if a team disbands in a higher division the ones of the non-promotion seeds gets promoted and the relegated teams get "still punished".
I would like to see a different system here. Maybe altering between relegating the 6th from below and then not relegating the 5th last from the upper deivision and so on.
So if
- 1 disband (or otherwise additional spot in the higher division) > 6th team gets promoted
- 2 disbands (or see above) > 6th Team promoted, 5th last not relegated
- 3 disbands (^)> 6th and 7th promoted, 5th last not relegated
- 4 disbands (^)> 6th and 7th promoted, 5th and 4th last not relegated
- i think you can see how it goes from here
Imho thats a more fair system. And if you can clearly can see its also not a suggestion i personally can benefit in the current situation
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 25-06-2023 13:33
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2933
Joined: 09-05-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Ezeefreak wrote:
Again I am here with something to suggest
Relegation/Promotion with disbands
I dont like the current system were if a team disbands in a higher division the ones of the non-promotion seeds gets promoted and the relegated teams get "still punished".
I would like to see a different system here. Maybe altering between relegating the 6th from below and then not relegating the 5th last from the upper deivision and so on.
So if
- 1 disband (or otherwise additional spot in the higher division) > 6th team gets promoted
- 2 disbands (or see above) > 6th Team promoted, 5th last not relegated
- 3 disbands (^)> 6th and 7th promoted, 5th last not relegated
- 4 disbands (^)> 6th and 7th promoted, 5th and 4th last not relegated
- i think you can see how it goes from here
Imho thats a more fair system. And if you can clearly can see its also not a suggestion i personally can benefit in the current situation
I'd suggest in addition to this the number of teams in PT and PCT to be reduced to ensure that there would be enough existing teams in CT. However changes to the promotion and relagation rules should be applied for the 2023-24 off-season. Here are my proposals:
1. Decrease the number of promoted/relagated teams from 5 to 3
2. PT to be decreased to 20 teams, PCT - to 22 teams. If this comes into effect for the 2024 season would mean that 5 teams would be relagated, but only 3 would be promoted.
3. With reduced number of teams in PT expanding the maximum PCT team wildcard quota for PT races from 2 to 4 could be explored (although some calendar rethink may be needed). In a similar fashion this could allow more opportunities for CT teams in HC classified races (provided that a spot is available)
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 25-06-2023 13:43
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World Champion
Posts: 13915
Joined: 05-08-2008
PCM$: 300.00
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I don't like the idea of allowing teams who were not good enough to stay in the division be allowed to do so due to disbands. I think one team should be spared from relegation only if we'd be looking at the fourth/fifth team that missed out on promotion actually promoting due to disbands. And that is for PT. I think it's fine when more teams go up from CT to PCT.
The idea of lowering the number of teams in the divisions and how many go down/promote can be explored, but I'm not a fan of 4 PCT teams receiving wildcards to a PT race when it doesn't cost them any race days. The two division already interact enough through the PTHC races.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 13:28
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 25-06-2023 16:54
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 3263
Joined: 02-11-2010
PCM$: 300.00
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alexkr00 wrote:
I don't like the idea of allowing teams who were not good enough to stay in the division be allowed to do so due to disbands. I think one team should be spared from relegation only if we'd be looking at the fourth/fifth team that missed out on promotion actually promoting due to disbands. And that is for PT. I think it's fine when more teams go up from CT to PCT.
I am not sure that is any worse than a team promoting who wasn't good enough to earn it. But agree there is a line somewhere. I think the calculus is probably different in PT/PCT than in PCT/CT. I feel like PCT teams in 8th or 9th place PCT teams are more read for/deserving of PT than 8th or 9th placed CT teams are for PCT.
Man Game: McCormick Pro Cycling |
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 25-06-2023 22:39
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4669
Joined: 29-09-2018
PCM$: 185.00
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Ulrich Ulriksen wrote:
I feel like PCT teams in 8th or 9th place PCT teams are more read for/deserving of PT than 8th or 9th placed CT teams are for PCT.
On one hand, I can agree on this. PCT is far more competitive than CT, where there usually are far less teams (this year 24 vs. 19, last year it was 26 vs. 14 as an extreme case), so to end up 8th or 9th in PCT you still have to be better than many, many teams. In CT, up to half of the division can be new teams, who mostly don't end up on the automatic promotion spots (kudos to Colombini to still do it).
On the other hand, any team promoting from CT can be able to improve enough to stay up. Looking at those who promoted with me in 2020, all of the 4 "additional" promoters stayed up, while three of the Top 5 went down again - so I'm not that sure how much that tells about quality. Maybe those who are "gifted" promotion just are more aware that it takes a major rebuild to be competitive in PCT 
I'm not a fan of reducing the size of the division; for the future of the game, it would be vital anyway to keep MG attractive, and to keep long-term managers involved. But if the total number of managers drops, well, I agree that this would be the only option to stay with the 3-tier system.
I wouldn't rush such a change now, though, given that we had quite a lot of new managers now whereof more than half are continuing. If we can get a similar number of applications every year, we might even get to the point where quality of applications matters again... But yeah, call me a dreamer - you're probably right
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| whitejersey |
Posted on 25-06-2023 23:04
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2905
Joined: 07-08-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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I will join the choir and say that reducing size of PT and PCT is absolutely not the way to go for the longevity of the game. You need to have these bigger divisions for the health of the game.
Also when a team relegates they failed their shot at staying up and it's natural that they should relegate. There are worlds where teams that would have relegated and get to stay up gets a massive advantage in renewals and can use that as a stepping stone etc, same can be said for an extra team coming in with a ton of open cap space but at least that balances itself out with a core that's nowhere near PCT quality.
I understand Alek's frustrations with the PCT teams stealing points via wild cards in PT races and I understand that having 4 teams in those through wild cards is pretty significant but the teams do pay to be there for the exp and to have some fun in the famous races. Personally never been big on the wild cards but they're are a key strategic element for a lot of PCT managers in leveling up riders and saving on loan fees.
I am massively against reducing the amount of teams that promote/relegate. If you only let 3 teams from each division switch places the game becomes static, the allure of the game is building a project that can promote, if you remove 40% of the promotion spots the game becomes way less enticing for new managers and CT managers. The allure of the PCT is that its the division in the game that is in constant flux and having 10 new teams in the division each season is key to keeping the middle step of the game interesting.
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 26-06-2023 01:30
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 3263
Joined: 02-11-2010
PCM$: 300.00
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Fabianski wrote:
Ulrich Ulriksen wrote:
I feel like PCT teams in 8th or 9th place PCT teams are more read for/deserving of PT than 8th or 9th placed CT teams are for PCT.
On the other hand, any team promoting from CT can be able to improve enough to stay up. Looking at those who promoted with me in 2020, all of the 4 "additional" promoters stayed up, while three of the Top 5 went down again - so I'm not that sure how much that tells about quality. Maybe those who are "gifted" promotion just are more aware that it takes a major rebuild to be competitive in PCT
2020 was a year the number of PT teams dropped, and there were too many FAs. So perversely I think it was an advantage to be a weaker CT team (as WJ suggests it might be). The stronger CT teams should have abandoned their cores but understandably didn't want to but the weaker ones had no choice. So I think this is an argument for not promoting 8th+ teams when they will actually be in a stronger position than is fair (balancing the FA market to the number of teams would solve this problem).
Man Game: McCormick Pro Cycling |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 26-06-2023 09:04
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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By popular demand, bring back crashes!
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 26-06-2023 10:44
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2933
Joined: 09-05-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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whitejersey wrote:
I will join the choir and say that reducing size of PT and PCT is absolutely not the way to go for the longevity of the game. You need to have these bigger divisions for the health of the game.
Also when a team relegates they failed their shot at staying up and it's natural that they should relegate. There are worlds where teams that would have relegated and get to stay up gets a massive advantage in renewals and can use that as a stepping stone etc, same can be said for an extra team coming in with a ton of open cap space but at least that balances itself out with a core that's nowhere near PCT quality.
I understand Alek's frustrations with the PCT teams stealing points via wild cards in PT races and I understand that having 4 teams in those through wild cards is pretty significant but the teams do pay to be there for the exp and to have some fun in the famous races. Personally never been big on the wild cards but they're are a key strategic element for a lot of PCT managers in leveling up riders and saving on loan fees.
I am massively against reducing the amount of teams that promote/relegate. If you only let 3 teams from each division switch places the game becomes static, the allure of the game is building a project that can promote, if you remove 40% of the promotion spots the game becomes way less enticing for new managers and CT managers. The allure of the PCT is that its the division in the game that is in constant flux and having 10 new teams in the division each season is key to keeping the middle step of the game interesting.
Well, you're more than welcome to suggest alternative ideas, because we're seeing the CT division dwindling in numbers. TBH I'd rather see 3 really healthy divisions than having a CT division with what - 10-12 teams? And if reducing the amount of teams in the PT/PCT and/or the amount of teams that promote/relagate is a way to have at least decent field of CT teams - then so be it.
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| whitejersey |
Posted on 26-06-2023 10:58
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2905
Joined: 07-08-2011
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I think that with the new recruitment efforts that we began last year I think that the low amount of teams in CT will fix itself pending continuation after this current season.
If we do our recruiting properly everything should be just fine. Reducing division sizes has huge implications of the balance of the game (like me getting Elissonde for 100k in FA when he went for 230k the year prior), furthermore it also really hurts managers trying to get PT loans etc.
A further reduction in division sizes will have huge balancing implications. Last year we had 10 new managers join, 9 start the season and 5-6 continuing, if we're able to keep up this level of recruitment for the next two years there won't be an issue with divisions. I think everyone is overreacting because there is an uncharacteristic amount of long term managers considering disbanding or already committed to the disband this year. Having this many established teams disband is not the norm, you shouldn't try to correct for freak scenarios.
In terms of promoting the game, there are so many different avenues that we haven't even considered yet and the game is getting traction in applications, there are general cycling forums like Reddit etc. that we haven't even started to delve in to, PCM interested people should naturally be the first priority but the allure of the game is that you get to be an actual manager of an actual team in an actual racing calendar against other managers, if it gets pitched correctly on the proper channels this could leave us with a ton of applicants if the need would be there.
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 26-06-2023 11:18
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3367
Joined: 20-04-2020
PCM$: 425.00
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I do think some people might be overreacting a bit indeed. I don't doubt we'll be able to fill enough spots with new managers this season and the seasons to come. Just a shame that this season we see some very nice long term managers (thinking of) leaving the game, but that can always happen I guess.
whitejersey wrote:In terms of promoting the game, there are so many different avenues that we haven't even considered yet and the game is getting traction in applications, there are general cycling forums like Reddit etc. that we haven't even started to delve in to.
Fyi, I did try to delve into Reddit last year as well. Put some 'promotion material' and invites in some Reddit groups, without trying to come of as someone who's only there to try and 'sell' them MG. Some cycling related, some pcm or sports manager game related, etc. In general it was hard though, because in many cases the mods felt like it was selfpromotional or sth and just deleted it.
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| whitejersey |
Posted on 26-06-2023 12:21
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2905
Joined: 07-08-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Nemolito wrote:
I do think some people might be overreacting a bit indeed. I don't doubt we'll be able to fill enough spots with new managers this season and the seasons to come. Just a shame that this season we see some very nice long term managers (thinking of) leaving the game, but that can always happen I guess.
whitejersey wrote:In terms of promoting the game, there are so many different avenues that we haven't even considered yet and the game is getting traction in applications, there are general cycling forums like Reddit etc. that we haven't even started to delve in to.
Fyi, I did try to delve into Reddit last year as well. Put some 'promotion material' and invites in some Reddit groups, without trying to come of as someone who's only there to try and 'sell' them MG. Some cycling related, some pcm or sports manager game related, etc. In general it was hard though, because in many cases the mods felt like it was selfpromotional or sth and just deleted it.
Fair, I misunderstood where you guys went to promote last year and thought you kept to PCM related communities primarily. 
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| whitejersey |
Posted on 26-06-2023 15:33
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2905
Joined: 07-08-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Put the "Tour" back in Cheshire Cycling Tour
So I love Benelux Challenge, as I have stated multiple times it is one of my favourite races together with Vienna do Castelo, but it's not a true cobblers stage race.
For the PCT level I feel like we are lacking a stage race that allows cobblers to shine, I can see why this would not be something for this year with renewals already being sent out but I think that for the 2024 season it is something to consider bringing back to the table.
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 26-06-2023 15:44
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World Champion
Posts: 11392
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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Put the "Tour of Japan" back in the "Man-Game Calendar"
We always won it
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
2x  x2
2x  x2 |
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 26-06-2023 20:27
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4669
Joined: 29-09-2018
PCM$: 185.00
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jandal7 wrote:
Put the "Tour of Japan" back in the "Man-Game Calendar"
We always won it
Except in 2021, where we could win it cause you weren't there 
I support this demand, though. It was a stage race with a unique character, with the MTT being the only (truly) GC-defining stage. I'd love to get it back.
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| quadsas |
Posted on 26-06-2023 20:43
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2518
Joined: 18-01-2013
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jandal7 wrote:
Put the "Tour of Japan" back in the "Man-Game Calendar"
We always won it
Pretty sure it was also our first stage win ever. So signed, even if it's jandal's suggestion
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 02-08-2023 13:13
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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Obviously too late for this idea to come into play for the 2023 season, but if i write it now i can find it easily in 12 months time.
Update to Training: Variable Cost By Potential
Currently you pay based upon the new stat/ovl value. It's good, simple, works reasonably well. However as we continue to try and better balance the DB in terms of inflation, and working to better support a diversity of ways to play and encourage more lower end PCT/CT training i offer the following:
A separate multiplier/cost based upon a riders potential!
Eg 72 | 250,000 | Pot1-3 x0.8, 4-5 x1, 6-7 x1.2
[figures not finalised]
Why? For years i've been talking about having more lower Potential riders, to both allow more variety in rider builds by adding at high stats with limited growth, and to increase decline rates to better match stat gain increases.
This would add another dimension to team building, especially for smaller nations (yes, here's my bias). Much easier to get a Pot 2 rider maxing at 70-72 added. Now with cheaper training it becomes easier to turn that rider into a contributor and boost your own national development without relying solely on rider additions which are weighted against you.
This will also encourage more CT training, as the potentially cheaper costs becomes more worthwhile to take a 72 rider up to 75-77 where they could turn into a scorer. This would overall I believe better balance the DB as it allows more non-primary stat training, and helps those more static CT teams with another way to push forwards up the ladder.
This would also add to a better, more fluid and varied, transfer economy. It may just take an edge off that top end stat inflation.
Obvious negatives, we still don't have many Pot1-3 riders in the DB of use, but we can change this with more additions in this range and continued active DB culling and management year-to-year. It would also add a bit more checking of transfer sheets to ensure no rule breaking, but as a game overall we're good at spotting mistakes and i don't see it adding more than a couple of manhours to stay ontop of.
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| sammyt93 |
Posted on 02-08-2023 21:59
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3634
Joined: 03-07-2012
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quadsas wrote:
jandal7 wrote:
Put the "Tour of Japan" back in the "Man-Game Calendar"
We always won it
Pretty sure it was also our first stage win ever. So signed, even if it's jandal's suggestion
This was our first GC win so we sign off on it too, I'm going to mis that TT up Mount Fuji, such a fun stage and it was a great tour
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 03-08-2023 06:59
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11676
Joined: 27-07-2015
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sammyt93 wrote:
quadsas wrote:
jandal7 wrote:
Put the "Tour of Japan" back in the "Man-Game Calendar"
We always won it
Pretty sure it was also our first stage win ever. So signed, even if it's jandal's suggestion
This was our first GC win so we sign off on it too, I'm going to mis that TT up Mount Fuji, such a fun stage and it was a great tour
https://pcmdaily....d_id=64750
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| SotD |
Posted on 03-08-2023 07:22
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World Champion
Posts: 12188
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 2980.00
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I think it would be better for the game if Greeks trained at half cost.
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
