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ICL20 - General | Scouting | Development
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| Ripley |
Posted on 15-09-2021 09:16
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Classics Specialist
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I never seem to have much luck developing my riders. Like my 24 yo pot 6 stage racer Cano Gonzalez won't even increase his MO by 1 point. But there's one rider I've had since the start who never disappoints, Jordi Simon, pot 5:
| AVG | FL | MO | HI | TT | PR | CB | SP | AC | DH | FT | ST | RS | RC | Age | | 2018 | 72.2 | 68 | 73 | 70 | 66 | 67 | 58 | 61 | 71 | 70 | 72 | 69 | 65 | 71 | 28 | | 2019 | 73.3 | 70 | 74 | 71 | 70 | 70 | 58 | 61 | 71 | 71 | 74 | 71 | 67 | 73 | 29 | | 2020 | 74.5 | 71 | 75 | 73 | 72 | 72 | 59 | 62 | 71 | 71 | 74 | 72 | 68 | 74 | 30 | | 2021 | 75.3 | 71 | 76 | 74 | 72 | 73 | 59 | 63 | 72 | 71 | 74 | 72 | 68 | 74 | 31 |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 15-09-2021 12:05
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World Champion
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File is great, as always!
Also a good decision to make the U23 more competitive. Question though, will the new allowed averages change anything about the efficienty of rider development while in U23 teams as AVG increases?
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Bikex |
Posted on 16-09-2021 09:38
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Team Leader
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@ciio: Riders with around 72 will still do well in U23 races and be able to develop well. It should not make a big difference in total for them.
Also you'll get a spot in WT for sure I would say!
@Ripley: For these kind of riders I would suggest using the recalc option in research. As if they don't develop for multiple years it is fair to assume they reached their ceiling.
@Ollfardh: No it will not change the efficiency.
As you can see the stat reducements I suggested for the development were not implemented this year, due to the opinions here in the thread. For next season however it is quite likely that something like this will happen. |
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| krisa |
Posted on 16-09-2021 15:40
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Classics Specialist
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Bikex wrote:
In some cases it can happen that riders that have not reached their age of decline yet can't maintain all of their stat points. This can be a result of poor performances during the season or settings implemented to keep the database balanced. This allows in return to give some developing talents more points so they develop quicker.
Ouch, now I understand why Aru doesn't reach his 82 MTN anymore  Crashing, losing many points, losing many racedays. Hope I can reach it with training again 
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 21-11-2024 22:15
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 16-09-2021 20:18
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 3259
Joined: 02-11-2010
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Post-Round 10 talent signing is still to come, right?
Man Game: McCormick Pro Cycling |
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| Ripley |
Posted on 16-09-2021 21:40
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@UU: Yep, I believe so. I'll forfeit my last scouting round, I have enough talents already.
@Ripley: For these kind of riders I would suggest using the recalc option in research. As if they don't develop for multiple years it is fair to assume they reached their ceiling.
Makes sense, but they are pretty expensive plus they could be a total waste of money. I'll try turning Dibben into a sprinter instead, at least reduce his wage for now. I might spend some training money on Tao to get him to MON 78 and see how that goes.
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| cio93 |
Posted on 16-09-2021 22:03
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World Champion
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I do have quite the opposite situation to Ripley with Fabian Schnaidt, who despite his age and mediocre results will likely find a new niche for himself that I didn't think could ever exist:
| FL | MO | HI | TT | PR | CB | SP | AC | DH | FT | ST | RS | RC | Age | | 2019 | 76 | 67 | 70 | 67 | 69 | 68 | 77 | 75 | 73 | 70 | 72 | 68 | 73 | 29 | | 2020 | 76 | 72 | 72 | 67 | 69 | 68 | 77 | 75 | 73 | 70 | 73 | 69 | 74 | 30 | | 2021 | 76 | 75 | 74 | 68 | 69 | 68 | 76 | 75 | 73 | 70 | 74 | 70 | 75 | 31 |
I don't believe +8mo +4hi should be possible at this age, but who am I to complain? 
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| Shonak |
Posted on 16-09-2021 22:09
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
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ICL version of Colbrelli 
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 16-09-2021 22:18
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Directeur Sportif
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I was just looking at it a little, Not as radical as Cio's example but definitely some things I wouldn't expect
31 yo Sanz can gain 1 fl/1 sp/1res which is a pretty good build for a rider over 30, while 26 yo Benoot, loses 1 hi/1 acc with half the total points that Sanz has. Those are standard adjustments, I haven't played with them which could alter things a little.
Rider development is by no means linear so I don't have a problem with unexpected fluctuations. But wasn't sure if that was the intent of the model.
Man Game: McCormick Pro Cycling |
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| DaveTwoBob |
Posted on 17-09-2021 10:29
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Ripley wrote:
@Ripley: For these kind of riders I would suggest using the recalc option in research. As if they don't develop for multiple years it is fair to assume they reached their ceiling.
Makes sense, but they are pretty expensive plus they could be a total waste of money. I'll try turning Dibben into a sprinter instead, at least reduce his wage for now. I might spend some training money on Tao to get him to MON 78 and see how that goes.
@Bikex Can I double check how the ceiling works. If I have a rider who is at the ceiling for a stat what happens if I buy training for that stat? Is it lost?
Suggestion - can we have a method of paying to "test" a rider (like an FTP Test) to see what his potential is for each stat or some traffic light system if you don't want it to be too obvious - Red=no increase, Amber=1 or 2 increase, Green=3 or more increase.
After this report is received it would inform a manager if a recalc is worth it as they are quite expensive. Perhaps the recalc could include a "FTP test" report so a manager has some feedback on the effect of the recalc.
Currently I am put off from using recalc due to the uncertainty and randomness, this could help to overcome it. Possible price for a FTP Test could be half that of a recalc, so for a Pot 7 that would be 175 ICL Dollars, a Pot 6 100 ICL Dollars. Thoughts?
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| Ripley |
Posted on 17-09-2021 10:57
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Classics Specialist
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@D2B: I imagine training will break through any barriers.
@UU: I'm sure we all have a rider like that, in my case it'd be Ruben Fernandez.
@cio: Schnaidt looks awesome!
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| Shonak |
Posted on 17-09-2021 12:29
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
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DaveTwoBob wrote:
Ripley wrote:
@Ripley: For these kind of riders I would suggest using the recalc option in research. As if they don't develop for multiple years it is fair to assume they reached their ceiling.
Makes sense, but they are pretty expensive plus they could be a total waste of money. I'll try turning Dibben into a sprinter instead, at least reduce his wage for now. I might spend some training money on Tao to get him to MON 78 and see how that goes.
@Bikex Can I double check how the ceiling works. If I have a rider who is at the ceiling for a stat what happens if I buy training for that stat? Is it lost?
Training is outside of normal development so should break through barrier, too.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| dominox |
Posted on 17-09-2021 18:47
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Look at the difference of stats increase from ICL 16 and my first season. He was with me since my first season, pot 5, now pot 7 and this potential monstrosity of a rider, lol
| | AVG | FL | MO | HI | TT | PR | CB | SP | AC | DH | FT | ST | RS | RC | | | 73,0 | 72 | 67 | 70 | 69 | 69 | 68 | 74 | 72 | 71 | 68 | 69 | 67 | 67 |  | Patryk Komisarek | 79,5 | 77 | 74 | 77 | 71 | 74 | 74 | 79 | 79 | 75 | 71 | 78 | 72 | 76 |
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| Laurens147 |
Posted on 18-09-2021 10:08
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Thanks Bikex for the development file, it looks great
I can't wait to start the new season!
MG - Lotto - Caloi
[MG] New Manager of the Year - PCM.daily Awards 2022
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 18-09-2021 10:30
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
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dominox wrote:
Look at the difference of stats increase from ICL 16 and my first season. He was with me since my first season, pot 5, now pot 7 and this potential monstrosity of a rider, lol
| | AVG | FL | MO | HI | TT | PR | CB | SP | AC | DH | FT | ST | RS | RC | | | 73,0 | 72 | 67 | 70 | 69 | 69 | 68 | 74 | 72 | 71 | 68 | 69 | 67 | 67 | | Patryk Komisarek | 79,5 | 77 | 74 | 77 | 71 | 74 | 74 | 79 | 79 | 75 | 71 | 78 | 72 | 76 |
Determination and a careful build-up of your rider pays off, well done dominox! |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 19-09-2021 13:41
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
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What a beast. Looks like some nice competition for Sagan in the fight for world cup domination!
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ripley |
Posted on 21-09-2021 09:35
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3341
Joined: 25-11-2014
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@dominox: I'm glad it worked out so well. As for the World Cup: Sagan says, bring it on! 
Suggestion - can we have a method of paying to "test" a rider (like an FTP Test) to see what his potential is for each stat or some traffic light system if you don't want it to be too obvious - Red=no increase, Amber=1 or 2 increase, Green=3 or more increase.
After this report is received it would inform a manager if a recalc is worth it as they are quite expensive. Perhaps the recalc could include a "FTP test" report so a manager has some feedback on the effect of the recalc.
Currently I am put off from using recalc due to the uncertainty and randomness, this could help to overcome it. Possible price for a FTP Test could be half that of a recalc, so for a Pot 7 that would be 175 ICL Dollars, a Pot 6 100 ICL Dollars. Thoughts?
From my experience with Dibben and Hart it becomes pretty obvious when you get close to a ceiling. I try totally commiting development to just the main stat and next to no base points are added anymore. So we probably don't need an "FTP Test".
My suggestion would be that we can choose the direction for a recalc potion. It's probably expensive enough even then and you wouldn't need it for the vast mjaority of riders anyway. Personally I wouldn't care if I didn't have a British team and was hoping Tao would develop into a decent captain. If I could choose a recalc potion towards climber I might go for it but as it is it's just too risky. Has anybody ever bought a recalc potion before?
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 21-09-2021 09:42
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World Champion
Posts: 14562
Joined: 08-08-2011
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Still not sure if I'm going to fully commit GVK to the World Cup, but I guess I could to make it more exciting.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| dominox |
Posted on 21-09-2021 10:12
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Shonak wrote:
What a beast. Looks like some nice competition for Sagan in the fight for world cup domination!
Ripley wrote:
@dominox: I'm glad it worked out so well. As for the World Cup: Sagan says, bring it on!
Ollfardh wrote:
Still not sure if I'm going to fully commit GVK to the World Cup, but I guess I could to make it more exciting.
Is that some sort of World Cup challenge for next season? Never really fully commited to this, but if Sagan throws it at me, and GVK considers it... Komisarek might agree for this challenge  |
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| Bikex |
Posted on 21-09-2021 11:07
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Team Leader
Posts: 7255
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@Ulrich: Yes scouting signing for post r10 will come soon
@cio: Schnaidt seems to still have quite a lot of unused development points available. If you had chosen sprinter training he'd probably been able to reach 79.
@Ulrich: fluctuations are mostly caused by a riders performance. There's also a small random component that is active once a rider is close to his ceiling. As the actual ceiling during the development process fluctuates around a specific value for each rider.
@DaveTwoBob: Points bought during research don't affect development.
I like your idea of an FTP-Test. I was anyways planning to have something like this in the game, as with how the development works now it is often not as easy to see if a rider is close to his maximum. My plan was to have a new column in the db, that gives information on that. The older a rider the more specific the data would be.
@Ripley: The recalc has not been used very often, but not never, most prominently by Croatia for Kelderman and Polanc I believe.
The recalc is not speciality specific and it is guaranteed to make a rider's ceiling not less. So in case of a rider like TGH that has a rather low ceiling, the recalc would almost certainly improve that. |
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