knockout wrote:
Can we stop the talk of training Herklotz or Demare and focus on how good Nils Politt would look with some training?
Didn't even notice! He'll be AMAZING!
Don't get me started on a 79HI Christian Mager... sploosh!
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant." [ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] Xero Racing
As a team that has been focusing heavily on talents ever since its creation, we would like to quickly present the latest improvements made by our 11 young (and young at heart) riders in the off-season.
Remi Cavagna
4.100
25yo
Allrounder
€50.000
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For our versatile Frenchman, the off-season was all about maximizing his allround potential while minimizing his wage request, and we succeeded in both to get a great domestique on many terrains at minimum wage!
We do not expect Remi to leave the team for another half a decade or more if he stays that cheap.
Furthermore, he will be able to lead us in his home race, the new Chrono d'Arenberg, where his unique skillset will be very useful.
Yikui Niu
4.100
26yo
Allrounder
€50.000
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The latest addition we've ever made, being a Free Agent that went into silent bidding, Yikui proved us right to give him a shot at the PT in his neo-pro season by finishing a strong 22nd in his home race Badaling as well as being stronger than his stats suggested in many stage races throughout the season.
We wanted to focus on his great sprint as well as his uphill abilities, hoping that he will be instrumental in the success of Arnaud Demare as the sprinter-puncheur continues to be a focal point of our team for another year.
Guy Sagiv
4.100
26yo
Baroudeur
€50.000
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Another domestique that maxed out coming into this season, Sagiv is a great fighter on flat and punchy terrain that can go for KoMs and finish off a breakaway appearance with a decent sprint, and we wanted to highlight exactly these abilities with the last stat increase.
He is potentially transfer listed, but we'd also love to see him represent us again this season.
Colin Stüssi
4.100
27yo
Stage Racer
€110.000
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The most important immediate improvement for us this year comes from our Swiss stage racer Stüssi, who will try to follow up on a surprise 300+ points season thanks to a great breakaway performance in Praha.
With an ideal skillset to lead smaller races and support Herklotz in the major ones, particularly in races with TTTs, he will be the core of our climbing squad alongside Yuriy Vasyliv for years to come.
Domenic Weinstein
4.100
26yo
Time Trialist
€50.000
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A PT team can never have too many decent and cheap TTers, and we're lucky to have found a German to fill that role in our roster with track specialist Weinstein.
Contrary to the majority of those however, he can also hold his own rather well on inclines - yet again an important skill in Herklotz races with TTTs - so it was a logical decision to improve him in that regard as well and forego some of that pure TT edge.
Ioannis Spanopoulos
4.04
27yo
Stage Racer
€50.000
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Another late left-field signing from last transfers, we do like the look of Spanopoulos as he progresses further in stage racing, his obvious strength.
As a very balanced rider close to his max, we are always aware of Festina looming in the background though.
Filippo Ganna
3.70
24yo
Time Trial
€60.000
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Our biggest talent on hand for now, Filippo Ganna continues to look amazing as he gains experience and develops into one of the leading TTers of his generation.
This year, we wanted to strengthen his rouleur skills, but we aim to give him a taste of the mountains by next year to make him even more well-rounded as the red stats await in the distance.
Florian Stork
3.68
23yo
Stage Racer
€50.000
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Signed last season with a future as the perfect stage racing domestique, Stork continues on his slow path to becoming equally good in the mountains and TTs to be another main domestique for his fellow countryman Herklotz for years to come.
Lukas Meiler
3.60
25yo
Cobbler
€50.000
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Another swap signing from last season, Meiler will be our best cobbler in two years and packs a good punch over hills for the often difficult northern classics.
Developing in pretty much the exact mould of our current leader Declerq, he has a great mentor at hand to ensure he will be up to the task by then.
Valentin Madouas
3.49
24yo
Puncheur
€110.000
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The biggest signing of our 2019 transfer season and future hills leader Madouas has started his career with some enjoyable breakaway appearances already, and will use the gained experience to improve in all relevant stats for a puncheur, especially for one that aims to be able to finish a good day off with an impressive sprint.
Next season however, we intend to have him join Ganna in the high mountains to ensure he can stay with the best climbers at the classics he will lead.
Jannik Steimle
3.07
24yo
Sprinter
€50.000
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Last but very much not least, we also signed a promising German sprinter last year in Steimle, who enjoyed a good first year as a pro at Tryg Insurance Cycling Team to gain two levels at once and work hard on his finishing speed, and particularly his outstanding acceleration.
Thanks to his very durable build uphill compared to many leadouts, we expect him to join Demare's sprint train by next season at the few races where the Frenchman requires one, and who knows who else he might lead out as well once maxed?
Did you see how well he rode?! Dude's a gem.
A weird fit, but definitely a fit. Especially for his synergy with Demare.
SotD wrote:
Wait what? So Herklotz isn’t good enough? The reigning Individual Rankings winner, whos two biggest rivals + Bewley just decreased?
I would certainly think Demare is the one who would benefit the most from training. Herklotz would probably raise his PpRD by a small bit, but also would lose racedays in general if trained... after this season also Madrazo is decreasing and then he’s the indisputed World Beater (as if he wasn’t already) :-)
Oh well, needing training money always opens for some interesting talks! :-)
Did I ever adhere to logic?
To put it simple: One of these two achieved his season goal (win green in Paris), one of them didn't (win the Giro).
It shoooould be obvious which of them isn't good enough yet.
And to be fair, he didn't win the Individual Ranking because he scored more points than ever before, he scored 134 points less than in 2018 and over 200 points less than any other winner of that ranking since we switched to this points system.
Besides, I very much fear that if you stop when you're ahead, you won't be ahead for much longer...looking straight back at you in this regard.
EVERYTHING ELSE
No comment!
Talents post above this one, in case these replies are too long for you to have noticed!
He does though move ahead by passitivity due to others fading. That's a given - No matter if Lecuisinier, Morton or Dombrowski goes to 85MO they won't be as strong as Taaramae and Spilak was - even Madrazo probably too a tad stronger. So in this case doing nothing is actually not a negative thing. I'm considering things for Lecusinier too as less racedays isn't necessarily good while +1MO obviously looks better.
Some of us didn't plan to stay "ahead" - Otherwise I wouldn't have 10 greek riders and 5 leadoutriders for Coquard
That wagecap could have EASILY been spent better if that was the main focus
Also - I'm really unhappy that the french talents isn't available - But then again, a certain german rider could be *Caught* Ackermann *Caugh*
SotD wrote:
Some of us didn't plan to stay "ahead" - Otherwise I wouldn't have 10 greek riders and 5 leadoutriders for Coquard
That wagecap could have EASILY been spent better if that was the main focus
I knew I should've edited that part to specify...
I solely referred to you having Lecuisinier who is one of the few riders that could catch up to and overtake Herklotz in the near future already if we get complacent, not to your general decision making how to move the team forward in the last years.
We'll see what happens, it does very much depend on how much a few select German riders are worth to their current managers at the start of transfers.
Now I remember why I wanted to sign Madouas, but of course I didn't have any chance against a PT-giant - especially while already overpaying another FA
Really a great set of talents you have here - hope you won't get into my way too much this time
Transfer Season 2020 - Trade and Free Agency Summary
With just one day and only one move left to be confirmed, we would like to discuss the majority of activity Team Puma - SAP has had this transfer season, and present all new riders as well as say goodbye to everyone that we had to part ways with.
(Disclaimer: all loan related deals will be presented tomorrow!)
We went into these 10 days with the cap space and the intention of signing a big name talent, or at least a significant Free Agent that would help us achieve our season goals.
However, even though we were ready to pay wages way above our evaluations and the objective value of the riders, we were outbid on every high priority target, and always after having spent a decent chunk of the 48 required hours in the lead.
Alberto Dainese couldn't be secured despite an offer that exceeded the one we signed Silvio f*cking Herklotz for back in the day, then Bakhtiyar Kozhatayev became nearly twice as expensive as the last time he was a FA.
Ferreyra, as the best value among the TT talents left in the pool after having spent the first half of transfers reserving funds for the unsuccessful attempts at the aforementioned two top targets, also ended up in a bidding war that easily went past Filippo Ganna's initial wage two seasons ago, and finally even the actually quite harmless Harm Vanhoucke wasn't worth the asking price anymore.
Management is absolutely convinced that no particular mistakes were made this transfer season though, as the team is plenty strong enough as is for the current ProTour season, and the quiet week now just means there will be enough cap space to attack again next transfers.
If anything, our only regret is that we should've just settled the Dainese issue with a first minute 500k bid right away to either secure him or be able to refocus while all of our backup plans were still in play, as many managers will now have our secondary targets at their disposal for far less wage than we would've allowed them to if we had been able to spend funds on them when their 48 hours were running!
Now despite how that summary reads, we were far from unhappy with the signings we DID make this transfer season!
In particular the addition of two further Germans, one with a Puma history, fits our long-term plans perfectly.
Furthermore, we secured talented riders on minimum wage, and finally strengthened Demare's leadout with another German speaking rider as well.
But, first of all, let's take some time to thank everyone who has left Team Puma - SAP going into the 2020 season.
Five riders were sold this year, all of them valuable domestiques that are simply suited better to other teams or lower divisions in general, or just received such good offers that we were willing to part ways in order to fund other means of improving the team.
Conor Dunne, infamously the silver medal winner of last season's B race at the World Championships, offered a unique skillset with his unusual cobbles proficiency for a climber, and was a great domestique in all races that suited him since 2016.
With Cavagna and Meiler increasing their cobbles ability and plenty of decent climbers being added to the roster, we couldn't guarantee Conor the same opportunities anymore though, and managed to strike a good deal for him that will hopefully see him be more visible in PCT next season.
Conor Dunne joins Desigual for a fee of €200.000.
Fabio Felline joined our team in 2013 (!!) and was a great rider throughout his tenure at Puma. Often in the shadows of either Kelderman or Demare, he still showcased a great punch uphill and in the sprints that allowed him to regularly finish above expectations.
Whenever he had to perform leadout duties for Demare, particularly in the Grand Tours, he showed an impeccable effort that often made the difference for Arnaud to win stages or jerseys.
Last season however was a difficult one for Felline, for reasons much discussed among the teams, and we figured he'll enjoy riding more in the Continental Tour where more races are tailored to his skillset and he can stand out from the crowd of puncheurs, and particularly for an Italian team there.
Fabio Felline joins Strava for a fee of €300.000.
Janvier Hadi quickly became a fan favorite despite being quite exotic for Puma standards, as an incredibly versatile rider that could help out wherever necessary.
We will admit though that we expected him to attack more often and score points in those occasions where breakaways fight for the victory, and when news broke that two new African teams, among them a Rwandan even, were to join the Continental Tour, we decided one of those teams would be a much better fit for him.
In the end, his home team Bralirwa - Stevens Bikes won the battle and receives Janvier Hadi for a fee of €210.000.
Ioannis Spanopoulos only became a Puma rider last season, and despite us being satisfied with his performances and his future skills, we couldn't decline a good offer for a Greek rider from a Greek team.
Especially with how early we negotiated this deal, the money we received gave us a vital headstart towards our training funds that allowed us to be more flexible in our other trade talks.
Ioannis Spanopoulos joins Festina - OAKA for a fee of €250.000.
Luca Wackermann, similar to Felline, was an invaluable domestique for Demare throughout his two seasons with us. With Niu maxing out as a similarly good leadout, but being a much better climber, we entertained offers for Luca and eventually found a good home for him.
Luca Wackermann will team up with Dunne again at Desigual for a fee of €125.000.
As mentioned above, we have five new additions so far this transfer season, with all of them either from Germany or its neighboring countries!
Our goal - besides the top name signing that didn't materialize - was to bolster our squad core with young, promising riders from our focus region that can provide useful support in many situations in the future, ideally being on or close to minimum wage throughout their careers to allow us to continue to afford Herklotz and Demare at the top, while not having to compromise on roster depth.
Furthermore, we wanted to pursue an upgrade in our leadout for Arnaud Demare if possible, with the gap from riders like Cavagna and Niu being too large to Demare's sprint abilities to form a coherent train that can maximize our win chances.
We believe we achieved these goals with the following riders, three of which will put on the Team Puma - SAP jersey this season already whereas the latter two of them will be loaned out. More on that tomorrow!
Marcel Aregger is a definitive upgrade to Felline last season as our final leadout rider, as his 78 sprint will be the perfect link between Niu's 74 and Demare's 82.
Joining his fellow countryman Stüssi from Free Agency for a €110.000 wage, which we deem perfectly reasonable for his skills, he possesses enough punch on short hills to hopefully stay with Demare on most of the tougher sprint stages and lead him out whenever the Frenchman requires a train.
Furthermore, his very strong prologue ability could come in quite handy in Qatar and the other instances of such stages.
Marcel Aregger
4.100
30yo
Sprinter
€110.000
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Mike Aaron Egger is a very special signing for us, as he already has experience wearing the Puma jersey!
Most managers won't remember as they weren't around then, but he was part of our inaugural squad back in 2012 as a mere 19 year old, and helped us promote to ProTour immediately, an achievement that was very instrumental in us having Arnaud Demare at our disposal ever since!
So after 8 years apart, we finally managed to reunite with Egger, and are very excited to see him bring his explosive, attacking style to our climbing squad.
He will receive plenty of opportunities to ride for KoM jerseys and stage wins away from Herklotz and Arndt.
Egger joined us from Evonik - ELKO for a very reasonable fee of €200.000, and we thank knockout very much for the negotiations and the willingness to allow this throwback to happen!
Mike Aaron Egger
4.100
27yo
Climber
€50.000
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Fabien Doubey was a late addition to our squad, and we were happy to see him receive no interest from other teams by then, so we could snag him for €50.000 from Free Agency.
We believe Fabien can be very valuable as a part of the aforementioned cheap roster core next season after having maxed out, with a very balanced skillset in the mountains and hills, complemented by a solid flat stat, good energy stats and a decent sprint as well!
Similar to Egger, we hope he can go on many KoM adventures.
Fabien Doubey
4.50
27yo
Puncheur
€50.000
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Johannes Schinnagel was one of our top priority targets this transfer season after the news of his team's disbandment in the off-season.
We got lucky that he was available to get picked up for €50.000 from Free Agency despite several days having passed already, and plenty of German or Germany-focused teams around.
Despite clearly never becoming a world-beater in any discipline in the future, he's destined to become a vital part of our climbing team, particularly when we don't have to worry about any TTTs along the way.
With an amazing endurance, and above average acceleration and downhill abilities, he's perfectly suited to go for KoM jerseys wherever possible, as he will attempt to always be the freshest rider of the group, no matter how hard the stage.
Just like Egger and Doubey, €50.000 is the wage we hope to always be able to retain him for.
Johannes Schinnagel
3.64
24yo
Climber
€50.000
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Last to be presented, but first to be signed! Joris Nieuwenhuis was a first minute target for us thanks to his incredibly efficient skillset once maxed, and we're glad to have secured a very solid leadout rider for the future for again just €50.000 from Free Agency, a wage we hope he can stay on throughout his career.
Being a neo-pro, he needs a lot of time to be polished and grow into his expected role, but you can see how tailor-made he will be for the role as the first leadout in a 3-rider train. A great flat stat will allow us to get ahead of the opposition before the sprint even starts, and his impressive acceleration will provide the first launch pad to get up to maximum speed as fast as possible.
His synergy with Jannik Steimle will be unmatched, as the German, once maxed himself, can then take over with 3 more SP and ACC respectively to retain the linearity of the speed increase as we get to the flamme rouge.
Furthermore, we're curious whether his downhill ability thanks to his cyclocross background will come in handy at some point as well!
Following up on yesterday's post, we will conclude our transfer season summary with our five total loans this year, three loans of Puma riders going to PCT and CT, and one loan swap with Valio - Viking Genetics.
Florian Stork will race the season for Bakkafrost to support Yonathan Monsalve.
After the Dainese saga, we're happy to have ended transfers on amicable terms with Sykkel_Freak!
Jannik Steimle will learn a lot from the sprinters at Podium Ambition, particularly from future superstar Caleb Ewan and his leadouts.
We are going to benefit from the experience he'll make there, thank you TMM!
Johannes Schinnagel will not don the Puma jersey in his first season on our payroll, but instead temporarily joins Felline at our friends Strava.
CT should be the perfect place for him to be aggressive and hone his breakaway abilities, and Shonak surely will take good care of him!
And finally, we have struck a late loan deal with Valio - Viking Genetics that sees our other moodestly talented addition Joris Nieuwenhuis spend his first pro season in PCT.
In return, we will happily welcome a valuable addition to our climbing lineups in Sasu Helme. We're excited to see him perform at the highest level for us at least this season, especially as a U25 rider, and are thankful for the flexible negotiations with Atlantius to make this happen.
Sasu Helme
4.69
24yo
Climber
€50.000
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And finally, our last FA addition this season!
We didn't initially have Atsushi Oka on our target list, but he was definitely worth picking up late in transfers as another efficient piece for our future leadout trains, as well as a valuable member of a TTT lineup.
His standout skill will be short prologues however, a discipline that can often produce random results, and we hope Oka will be on the receiving end of such randomness eventually!
After the very satisfying efforts our first ever (true) Asian addition, Yikui Niu, showed in the 2019 season, we're happy to explore that market further in 2020.
After a rather quiet transfer season, Team Puma - SAP looks mostly the same at the top end compared to last year, where that roster was sufficient to reach third overall in ProTour after all.
With four riders loaned out, and Helme returning to Valio after 2020, we currently own 25 riders, of which TWELVE are German!
We're proud of that achievement, a continuation of last season's efforts to become a home to as many German riders as possible without compromising our points scoring ability.
Back when we won the PT crown in 2018, we only had 6 Germans on the team, but it's safe to say that Team Puma - SAP are THE German team now, just two years later.
At the top, nothing significant changed this off-season. Silvio Herklotz still is our undisputed GC leader wherever his few race days allow him to, with Nikias Arndt taking over the captain role in races with as few TT kilometres as possible.
Yuriy Vasyliv and newly maxed out Colin Stüssi can act as superdomestiques for Herklotz, but also will get their own chances to fight for good GC results in TT-heavy stage races.
Further support for any GC leader we field this season will come from Mike Aaron Egger, Sasu Helme, Patrick Bevin, Yikui Niu and Fabien Doubey.
Arnaud Demare, the reigning Tour de France green jersey winner, continues to be a threat for any sprint, but particularly the ones on selective stages, and has received further leadout support in Marcel Aregger.
Yikui Niu, Remi Cavagna and Guy Sagiv are expected to play an important role for Arnaud in setting him up for success, with Nikias Arndt joining them at times to ensure together with Niu that we will always have at least some sort of leadout available, no matter how hard the day was. Atsushi Oka will learn from these more experienced riders.
Tim Declerq is the clear cobbles leader and hopes to capitalize on unusual race situations to return to his occasional Top 15 days of the past, with Lukas Meiler becoming his apprentice for a couple of years before taking over that role.
Remi Cavagna will be of use on cobbles as well, and hopes to ride for his own chances in ToNE and Chrono d'Arenberg.
Jasha Sütterlin, going into his 9th season as a Puma rider and thus being the only rider to stay with us since our inaugural season, remains our TT leader for one more year before Filippo Ganna starts to put the hammer down and become a favorite for all kinds of TTs.
Having retained Nils Politt, Patrick Bevin and Domenic Weinstein while developing Ganna, Cavagna and Stüssi to the next level means our TTT squad has become quite threatening.
Nikias Arndt will likely get another shot at leading us in some punchy races, with Christian Mager also being able to ride for his own chances. Both will obviously need to overperform or find the best strategy on the day to leave a mark on those races. Valentin Madouas continues to improve and will start to look to make an impact as well while gaining experience towards our common goal of having him lead Puma in those races in the future.
Ardennes Training Camp Report
And last but certainly not least, we have news coming from Belgium!
After our undercover scouts spotted Pierre-Henri Lecuisinier board a plane to Colombia in a French airport, a quick decision was made by management to prepare Silvio Herklotz for the new season by doing the exact opposite of what his biggest long-term opponent was apparently up to.
A short phone call later, we sent Silvio to the Ardennes to meet up with our former hills leader Wilco Kelderman, who gladly showed Herklotz the art of being a strong puncheur on the steep hills readily available in that region for a couple of weeks.
We're very happy with the results, and are looking forward to see an even more explosive version of the reigning PT Individual Standings champion on the road in 2020!
Well, Herklotz was a beast before - what should he be called now? And still 4 years of training left, that's just insane...
Your climbing squad is impressive, too, just like your possible TTT lineup. Herklotz really shouldn't lose lots of time in those now.
And oh, how I envy you for Stüssi & Aregger... Having that duo would bring me really close to promotion I guess - but instead they "just" get a domestique role in PT
Oh come on. Can you not just simply train his Mo like everyone else would have done? Will we now also have to compete in those mo/hi races in the future... F off
whitejersey wrote:
Okat was on my shortlist for a very long time but I eventually ended up going for a few different talents, solid pickup!
Same here. I already have so many similar riders to him, so felt I needed to focus on other areas of the team.
Thanks for that!
He'll be quite useful from next year on already thanks to being one level ahead of Nieuwenhuis.
The whole TT thing is a gamble, but one worth taking if he remains at 50k.
This makes me wonder what you consider an actual sprint superstar to look like Happy to have Jakob for a season
Fun to see the team becoming more German over the last two years, we're all just waiting for that TT training on Herk to ruin the game
Jannik!
quadsas wrote:
I tore up a little bit seeing hill trained rather than TT ;(
Regarding the TT vs hill topic:
Obviously I can't disclose the plans for future seasons, but for now my reasoning was that it's more valuable to create a second strength rather than covering a weakness. Especially with some of the routes this season.
With the upcoming stage racing talent having an apparent lack of HIL proficiency, especially comparing to some of the TT stats emerging (Bernal, Sivakov, Pogacar, McNulty, Wirtgen), I want to ensure that Herklotz has an advantage over them in 19 of 21 stages rather than just catching up to them in 2 of 21.
Better TT is obviously a guaranteed way to gain time, so it might cost a GC place here and there, but if he wins four extra stages per season because of it, I consider that a decent trade. Plus, bonus seconds!
Fabianski wrote:
Well, Herklotz was a beast before - what should he be called now? And still 4 years of training left, that's just insane...
Your climbing squad is impressive, too, just like your possible TTT lineup. Herklotz really shouldn't lose lots of time in those now.
And oh, how I envy you for Stüssi & Aregger... Having that duo would bring me really close to promotion I guess - but instead they "just" get a domestique role in PT
Oh, you just wait...
Yeah the TTT lineup was an important focus the last couple of seasons, with investments having been made in Politt/Cavagna for the present, and Ganna/Stork for the future.
I hadn't planned with Bevin for 2020, but he does come in quite handy now.
Stüssi scored over 300 points last season, hardly a domestique!
And Aregger is surely worth a talk next season, with Steimle getting closer to his statline by then.
redordead wrote:
Looks like Herklotz wants to win Hallstatt, badly
We as a team always do!
It's the closest thing to a home race he'll get, ever since we changed the characteristics of the Deutschland Tour.
knockout wrote:
Oh come on. Can you not just simply train his Mo like everyone else would have done? Will we now also have to compete in those mo/hi races in the future... F off
I agree. With the RDC system in PCM 18, Herklotz is more than likely going to have 85 MO anyway.
I'm not entirely confident to rely on that aspect, but it did play a small role.
Mostly, this is down to the mo/hill change though.
We clearly identified the requirement for puncheurs to have decent MO to perform, so one would think that inversely, climbers don't really benefit from HIL as much anymore.
I think it should be apparent though that the opposite is true, with HIL formerly only being used in a couple of actually relevant GT stages, while now practically every stage could have some HIL impact.
If anything, even mountain stages can now be decided by HIL if the final mountain isn't long enough to use up the entire yellow bar, regardless of how tough the stage was up until then.
Herklotz' descending and resistance should further help him to preserve enough yellow to play with and utilize this training in the finale.
Also, it wasn't entirely irrelevant that this training barely increased his OVL!
Sasu Helme 
Atsushi Oka 
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
