Wilier wrote:
You're wearing the jersey of your national team, therefore you are representing them. You are selected by a national coach, who had a job to select the best riders to try and get the best possible result. Your loyalty should be in the team you are representing in that particular race. I would be furious if one of my riders would sacrifice himself for another country/team. Thats not why you're selected.
Look, if you think as a DS that your climber can win a sprint against WVA, Kwiatek, and Hirschi - sure, hold him back. Or you just tell him that it is up to his decision and his legs how he wants to race. At that point, taking a few pulls isnt like you are betraying your country, it is just you keeping yourself in the race. I think you are seeing this waaay too much in black and white.
But whatevs, like Ollfardh said, Roglic didnt had the legs anyway, no point in discussing it.
@Abhi: I don't get it.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
Ollfardh wrote:
And who's paying you all season long, your country or your team? It's very naive to think people should just ride for their country and forget everything else. If people ride for their country, how did Rui Costa ever win that WC?
I think it's hard to underrate what WVA has done for Roglic in le Tour, so if he had something left in the tank, he should have done something back. I guess he really was empty, so yeah, end of discussion.
I guess Devenyns is probably the smartest, he simply turned down his Belgian selection because he didn't want to chase Alaphilippe.
People through shit on Valverde for supporting Costa instead of himself and Purito, and rightfully so. You ride for your own national team, not for anybody else.
If this was Liege Bastogne Liege or something, it would've been understandable to call out Roglic. Here it could've been a nice gesture, but to be fair it would've almost been unsportsmanlike to work for a rider of an opponent team sacrificing his own ambitions. How would you justify that to the teammates from other teams he worked for you (Pogacar, Polanc who was very strong, Mezgec and the others)? The only thing he (and Fuglsang) could've done was let Wout, Hirschi and Kwiatek do the work (who are much better sprinters and looking at the sprint held something back) and then try to somehow get away with a solo attack when everybody is looking at each other. This is a race of national teams, not a race of sponsor teams.
But this discussion is useless anyway since Roglic wasn't able to sprint anyway, showing that he just had nothing left.
Pogacar was just stupid tbh, it seems he's still feeling sorry for Roglic after winning le Tour so he sacrificed his own chances with that silly attack. I wonder if he could've followed Alaphilippe if he waited.
I know in theory it should be countries before teams for 1 day of the year, but the riders just don't think of it that way. Aside from Devenyns & Costa I already mentioned, there's so many examples I can remember without thinking much. Degenkolb getting pissed at Debusschere and spraying his water bottle in his face, Nys not chasing team mate Groenewegen in Sint Michiels Gestel, Longo couldn't care less if there was a Frenchie in the lead, she would always close gaps, I can't pinpoint is, but there was a race where the Dutch women kept chasing each other as well. I'm sure there's more, so I think it shows not everyone feels about it the same way.
I wonder if WVA will ride the cyclocross worlds in a few months, not sure if he can handle another silver medal.
Ollfardh wrote:
Pogacar was just stupid tbh, it seems he's still feeling sorry for Roglic after winning le Tour so he sacrificed his own chances with that silly attack. I wonder if he could've followed Alaphilippe if he waited.
To be fair everybody else except France, Australia and Belgium was silly to not send somebody up the road together with Pogacar. Italy, Spain, Colombia all would've benefitted from putting the pressure on and it was pretty obvious at that point already.
You're other points are utterly useless by the way. Degenkolb and Debusschere makes no sense at all, as Degenkolb was pissed cause he was clearly trying to ride for his country and Debusschere had a countryman up the road. Devenyns would've had no considerable impact anyway, Costa was a point of selfish rivalry inside the team, Sint Michiels Gestel is a useless example for road racing and irrelevant on the bigger scale. To the Longo point I can't say anything because I don't know about her, so can't judge it from that perspective. But looking at the common instances of riders sacrificing themselves for teammates on the national team scale shows that national teams matter a lot more in national team races than road teams matter in national team races.
I feel sorry for you that Wout didn't won, but he wasn't the strongest on the day, only the second strongest (or he didn't invest enough in the chase). Guess it would've needed other tactics (GvA going with Pogacar on the attack to have somebody come from the front to chase down Alaphilippe in the end?) or just Wout being stronger.
