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PCM.daily Stat Discussion
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 27-09-2020 17:06
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Guya maybe Hirschi hill 79??? |
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 27-09-2020 21:39
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
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I think this World Championships clearly showed that it was not a disadvantage to ride the Tour if not going full on GC. May be interesting for future race planning of contenders, as you usually don't race that hard after Le Tour and cool down with after-Tour-criteria.
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| andrew7taylor |
Posted on 28-09-2020 10:09
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Free Agent
Posts: 130
Joined: 20-04-2019
PCM$: 200.00
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Croatia14 wrote:
I think this World Championships clearly showed that it was not a disadvantage to ride the Tour if not going full on GC. May be interesting for future race planning of contenders, as you usually don't race that hard after Le Tour and cool down with after-Tour-criteria.
Funny tidbit, every single Olympic gold medallist (10/10) have rode the Tour. Even when it finished just a week before (Atlanta, London). Teams and riders never thought that riding a GT was a disadvantage, but I'm glad you've come around, too.
It's a bit hard not to race hard after the Tour in a year when everything is after the Tour. People won't be riding criteriums instead of Monuments... |
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 28-09-2020 10:19
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
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andrew7taylor wrote:
Croatia14 wrote:
I think this World Championships clearly showed that it was not a disadvantage to ride the Tour if not going full on GC. May be interesting for future race planning of contenders, as you usually don't race that hard after Le Tour and cool down with after-Tour-criteria.
Funny tidbit, every single Olympic gold medallist (10/10) have rode the Tour. Even when it finished just a week before (Atlanta, London). Teams and riders never thought that riding a GT was a disadvantage, but I'm glad you've come around, too..
Well common sense is that you need a couple of weeks to recover from the Tour, that's why almost nobody that has been successful at Le Tour rides any UCI races in the weeks afterwards.
Out of the Top15 of the 2019 GC of the Tour de France, only Bernal, Alaphilippe, Valverde, Gaudu and Landa rode a race in the following weeks, all riding the Clasica San Sebastian. Despite all being top quality riders, only Valverde managed to finish the race, he finished 10th. Thus I'd say going for the GC at a GT and then having goals shortly after clearly is a disadvantage, but stage hunting/helping at one should be fine as you can allow yourself off-days to recover. So I agree on your assessment as long as riders ride the Tour not for GC not directly in front of the big event.
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| andrew7taylor |
Posted on 28-09-2020 18:43
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Free Agent
Posts: 130
Joined: 20-04-2019
PCM$: 200.00
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Croatia14 wrote:
Well common sense is that you need a couple of weeks to recover from the Tour, that's why almost nobody that has been successful at Le Tour rides any UCI races in the weeks afterwards.
Out of the Top15 of the 2019 GC of the Tour de France, only Bernal, Alaphilippe, Valverde, Gaudu and Landa rode a race in the following weeks, all riding the Clasica San Sebastian. Despite all being top quality riders, only Valverde managed to finish the race, he finished 10th. Thus I'd say going for the GC at a GT and then having goals shortly after clearly is a disadvantage, but stage hunting/helping at one should be fine as you can allow yourself off-days to recover. So I agree on your assessment as long as riders ride the Tour not for GC not directly in front of the big event.
Well common sense is that it's difficult to ride any races when in a normal year there's barely any top level races between the Tour and the Vuelta for GT riders. And someone who's riding the Giro/Tour or the Tour/Vuelta combo will be looking to cut down on racing anyway.
But I don't know if you noticed, but this is not a normal year and the calendar isn't the usual either.
PCS explains it perfectly:
The average number of racedays before the start of Tour de France of all competitors compared to the average of the last 5 editions.
2015-2019: 39.8
2020: 19.8
Also common sense is that one-day races and the GC at Grand Tours require massively different skillsets. Power and explosiveness vs. efficiency and regeneration.
The punchers, classics riders and sprinters who rode the Tour will race hard, but they didn't ride for GC anyway.
And the riders who rode for GC don't have the skillset to win Liége, Gent-Wevelgem or De Ronde so they weren't riding them anyway. They have the choice of Vuelta or nothing. I struggle to see what's interesting about that... |
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| Arberg |
Posted on 29-09-2020 10:53
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 265
Joined: 09-04-2018
PCM$: 200.00
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What does TT stats look like? |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 29-09-2020 12:48
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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There is some room for changes here I'm sure but this is what they are at the moment:
Dennis 82/80
Ganna 81/82
Campanaerts 81/79
Van Aert 80/80
Dumoulin 80/78
Asgreen 80/77
Kung 79/81
Evenepoel 79/80
Cavagna 79/79
Affini 78/80
Bevin 78/79
Thomas 78/79
Dowsett 78/78
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 29-09-2020 14:00
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Remco the other way around surely? He never did as well in short prologues compared to the longer time trials.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Arberg |
Posted on 30-09-2020 15:29
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 265
Joined: 09-04-2018
PCM$: 200.00
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79-80 IMO. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 22:02
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| cio93 |
Posted on 02-10-2020 15:41
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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Dunno where he stands in the DB at the moment since I don't have PCM 20, but Jannik Steimle has shown two promising prologue efforts recently now.
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| jeremyrobin |
Posted on 03-10-2020 16:26
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Under 23
Posts: 59
Joined: 29-09-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Can you add Axel Zingle (https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/axel-zingle), Felipe Orts (https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/felipe-orts), Alan Boileau (https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/alan-boileau), Ben Zwiehoff (https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/ben-zwiehoff), Juan Ayuso (https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/juan-ayuso-pesquera) and Alexandre Delettre (https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/alexandre-delettre) in the next update please |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 03-10-2020 17:51
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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And more push for Olav Kooij, he shows that is a good sprinter (and add his picture photo please xD) |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 03-10-2020 20:15
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Aizak: At moment Hirschi is 79 hill.
Olifardh: For the last year Remco has had one more point in his TT/Pro stats in favour of pro and didn't notice too much since then that this should be changed, can you give an example over the last year and if so will do it.
Cio: Steimle could have a drastic TT/Pro stat like 69/80 which is even wider than that of say Laporte.
The other suggestions will be passed onto the team members that will include them.
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| King_Ric |
Posted on 03-10-2020 20:52
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Junior Rider
Posts: 44
Joined: 03-07-2019
PCM$: 200.00
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Impressive performance by João Almeida today, don't you think?
Maybe justifying an upgrade in TT/PRO? |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 03-10-2020 21:09
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Well just Algarve and San Juan this year, won both but 15/20K not telling much. I think the year before were much more meaningful as there were some top races there:
Won European TT 22K
Technical win WC TT 54K
NC 3rd but still in front of Campenaerts (WVA won) 38K
Only 4th in Tour of Belgium 9K TT
Romandie 15th for 17K
UAE Tour 7th for 16K
SAn Juan 3rd 12K
So I would say he generaly does better on the longer TT's.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Arberg |
Posted on 04-10-2020 08:13
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 265
Joined: 09-04-2018
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
Well just Algarve and San Juan this year, won both but 15/20K not telling much. I think the year before were much more meaningful as there were some top races there:
Won European TT 22K
Technical win WC TT 54K
NC 3rd but still in front of Campenaerts (WVA won) 38K
Only 4th in Tour of Belgium 9K TT
Romandie 15th for 17K
UAE Tour 7th for 16K
SAn Juan 3rd 12K
So I would say he generaly does better on the longer TT's. Agree. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 04-10-2020 11:32
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Remco changed to 80/79.
Also interested in hearing suggestions for TT/Pro for Almeida?
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| hansw |
Posted on 04-10-2020 13:02
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Amateur
Posts: 21
Joined: 17-07-2018
PCM$: 200.00
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I would give Almeida 75 or 76 in TT |
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| King_Ric |
Posted on 04-10-2020 14:27
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Junior Rider
Posts: 44
Joined: 03-07-2019
PCM$: 200.00
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It's hard to tell as we don't have many examples of his capacities. I think we should wait and see how he does in the next two TTs |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 04-10-2020 20:29
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Hans- That might be a bit too high for now and have put him a few points less than this but thanks for the suggestion.
KR- This is very good advice and the next TT especially will be the one to look at
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