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PCM.daily Stat Discussion
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 18-09-2020 09:33
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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AiZaK wrote:
Tafiolmo I think David de la Cruz must be 77 again in Climber and a little more energy/endurance, 68 its too low, maybe something like 72 more or less?
If you've read the last few posts then you will see that there is going to be a stretch out for the climbers and so for sure De La Cruz will at least be 77 mtn 
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| Ho0liGaN |
Posted on 18-09-2020 16:58
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Junior Rider
Posts: 42
Joined: 30-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Once again thanks for the comments and would be interested in seeing your suggestions for sprint stats as in the Tour I'm playing Bennett with 81/82 has performed as as or even better than at the Tour whereas Ewan with 81/83 and even getting a better lead-out hasn't but that, of course, is probably just down to form but maybe these stats are good because on one stage Pedersen with 77/78 was able to beat them both in the sprint.
Thanks for the kind words. I find statting sprinters pretty difficult. Sprints as a whole aren't implemented the best. often you will find GC riders in the top 10-20 of a sprint even with mid 60's stats. Getting a good view on how sprints exactly work in this game is near impossible, it only (really) happens at the end of the stage, and it varies greatly by what kind of stage it was, wind velocity and/or direction. Very rarely will you have a flat stage where all sprinters will be present and without any strong head/tailwind to get an accurate representation of who the best sprinter is in-game. 90% of the time it will simply be timing, who runs out his red bar last.
Because of this, I haven't put too much thought into it and haven't really tinkered with the stats to try and get the most accurate representation. |
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| Ho0liGaN |
Posted on 18-09-2020 19:14
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Junior Rider
Posts: 42
Joined: 30-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Wall of results, i've simulated about 25 grand tours. Most of them TDF, but all from different years, with long TT's team TT's short TT's, lots of mountain stages, lots of hilly stages. You name em, ive simulated them. I wont post the results of all of them But Ill post the top 20 of a couple of them.
1 Primož Roglič Team Jumbo-Visma 85h37'02
2 Tadej Pogačar UAE Team Emirates + 2'42
3 Adam Yates Mitchelton-Scott + 4'13
4 Miguel Ángel López Astana Pro Team + 4'53
5 Steven Kruijswijk Team Jumbo-Visma s.t.
6 Egan Bernal Team Ineos + 6'06
7 Tom Dumoulin Team Jumbo-Visma + 6'47
8 Richie Porte Trek - Segafredo + 9'04
9 Rigoberto Urán EF Pro Cycling + 9'17
10 Romain Bardet Ag2r La Mondiale + 10'19
11 Emanuel Buchmann BORA - hansgrohe + 11'37
12 Chris Froome Team Ineos + 12'53
13 Bauke Mollema Trek - Segafredo + 13'29
14 Mikel Landa Bahrain - McLaren + 14'47
15 Nairo Quintana Team Arkéa - Samsic + 15'09
16 Thibaut Pinot Groupama - FDJ + 15'19
17 Simon Yates Mitchelton-Scott + 15'52
18 Lilian Calmejane Team Total Direct Energie + 15'59
19 Pello Bilbao Bahrain - McLaren + 18'44
20 Michael Woods EF Pro Cycling + 20'35
1 Tadej Pogačar UAE Team Emirates 63h37'23
2 Primož Roglič Team Jumbo-Visma + 2
3 Egan Bernal Team Ineos + 44
4 Tom Dumoulin Team Jumbo-Visma + 1'55
5 Richie Porte Trek - Segafredo + 1'56
6 Chris Froome Team Ineos + 2'34
7 Emanuel Buchmann BORA - hansgrohe + 2'43
8 Adam Yates Mitchelton-Scott + 2'47
9 Simon Yates Mitchelton-Scott + 2'51
10 Nairo Quintana Team Arkéa - Samsic + 2'59
11 Thibaut Pinot Groupama - FDJ + 3'10
12 Sepp Kuss Team Jumbo-Visma + 5'08
13 Alejandro Valverde Movistar Team + 5'40
14 Bauke Mollema Trek - Segafredo + 6'10
15 Vincenzo Nibali Trek - Segafredo + 6'23
16 Romain Bardet Ag2r La Mondiale + 8'54
17 Wout Van Aert Team Jumbo-Visma + 9'38
18 Ion Izagirre Astana Pro Team + 10'08
19 Lilian Calmejane Team Total Direct Energie + 10'42
20 Guillaume Martin Cofidis, Solutions Crédits + 11'18
1 Primož Roglič Team Jumbo-Visma 84h32'42
2 Tadej Pogačar UAE Team Emirates + 1'34
3 Egan Bernal Team Ineos + 3'37
4 Steven Kruijswijk Team Jumbo-Visma + 3'58
5 Mikel Landa Bahrain - McLaren + 4'56
6 Richard Carapaz Team Ineos + 5'08
7 Tom Dumoulin Team Jumbo-Visma + 5'32
8 Miguel Ángel López Astana Pro Team + 6'36
9 Wout Van Aert Team Jumbo-Visma + 7'35
10 Wout Poels Bahrain - McLaren + 7'51
11 Romain Bardet Ag2r La Mondiale + 8'19
12 Vincenzo Nibali Trek - Segafredo + 8'35
13 Bauke Mollema Trek - Segafredo + 8'48
14 Simon Yates Mitchelton-Scott + 10'29
15 Emanuel Buchmann BORA - hansgrohe + 11'16
16 Sepp Kuss Team Jumbo-Visma + 11'37
17 Geraint Thomas Team Ineos + 12'35
18 Enric Mas Movistar Team + 13'06
19 Sergio Higuita EF Pro Cycling + 13'09
20 Lilian Calmejane Team Total Direct Energie + 14'12
(very weak field, and I think it was the '94 tour with like 130 km of timetrial)
1 Egan Bernal Team Ineos 87h24'25
2 Tom Dumoulin Team Jumbo-Visma + 34
3 Steven Kruijswijk Team Jumbo-Visma + 2'47
4 Richie Porte Trek - Segafredo + 2'54
5 Miguel Ángel López Astana Pro Team + 3'50
6 Richard Carapaz Team Ineos + 4'23
7 Rigoberto Urán EF Pro Cycling + 5'04
8 Sepp Kuss Team Jumbo-Visma + 5'18
9 Mikel Landa Bahrain - McLaren + 5'31
10 Emanuel Buchmann BORA - hansgrohe + 7'30
11 Domenico Pozzovivo NTT Pro Cycling + 9'50
12 Vincenzo Nibali Trek - Segafredo + 12'06
13 Pello Bilbao Bahrain - McLaren + 14'17
14 Damiano Caruso Bahrain - McLaren + 16'01
15 Giulio Ciccone Trek - Segafredo + 16'18
16 Tanel Kangert EF Pro Cycling + 16'42
17 Alexey Lutsenko Astana Pro Team + 17'10
18 Enric Mas Movistar Team + 18'04
19 Ion Izagirre Astana Pro Team + 19'29
20 Artem Nych Gazprom - RusVelo + 19'37
1 Steven Kruijswijk Team Jumbo-Visma 84h44'34
2 Miguel Ángel López Astana Pro Team + 53
3 Tadej Pogačar UAE Team Emirates + 2'08
4 Damiano Caruso Bahrain - McLaren + 3'03
5 Mikel Landa Bahrain - McLaren + 4'38
6 Adam Yates Mitchelton-Scott + 5'01
7 Richie Porte Trek - Segafredo + 7'12
8 Richard Carapaz Team Ineos + 7'45
9 Rigoberto Urán EF Pro Cycling + 7'47
10 Geraint Thomas Team Ineos + 8'37
11 Bauke Mollema Trek - Segafredo + 10'29
12 Sepp Kuss Team Jumbo-Visma + 10'30
13 Pello Bilbao Bahrain - McLaren + 16'41
14 Wilco Kelderman Team Sunweb + 17'22
15 Giovanni Visconti Vini Zabù - KTM + 18'02
16 Alexey Lutsenko Astana Pro Team + 18'34
17 Esteban Cháves Mitchelton-Scott + 18'49
18 David De la Cruz UAE Team Emirates + 21'04
19 Domenico Pozzovivo NTT Pro Cycling + 21'33
20 Tao Geoghegan Hart Team Ineos + 21'37
(giro)
Going through these results, I found that time after time there were some strange results. most notably with Uran who never seems to perfom despite him being a very balanced rider. Also, some of the riders (pinot) is really suffering from the low REC, while we see riders like Kuss and caruso who both have similar REC do manage to get high results.
These are only simulated results, (im not doing 25+ grand tours just to get some results  ) And we all know that in-game the results are usually much more balanced, instead of some weird stuff like the number 3 in the GC winning 2 minutes in a relatively simple Hill stage. |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 19-09-2020 08:55
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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In your tests Van Aert is 74/75 in mountain??? |
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| Ho0liGaN |
Posted on 19-09-2020 15:57
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Junior Rider
Posts: 42
Joined: 30-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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He was
77 MTN
79 Hill,
78 TT,
72 REC,
79 in STA and RES
78FLAT and
78 SPR
While none of these in a vacuum would be too strange to say he's worth the stats. All things combined he becomes too strong for the game |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 12:46
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| bob7 |
Posted on 19-09-2020 17:12
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Stagiare
Posts: 220
Joined: 27-01-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Pogacar 86 TT? |
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| redordead |
Posted on 19-09-2020 17:45
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4881
Joined: 18-10-2017
PCM$: 200.00
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86 recovery for sure
"I am a cyclist, I may not be the best, but that is what I strive to be. I may never get there, but I will never quit trying." - Tadej Pogačar
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 19-09-2020 18:41
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
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Sadly simulation says nothing about the of racing. 
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 19-09-2020 18:43
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Hooligan thanks for those result listings and was most interested in seeing how the high hill stat riders performed in relation to the natural climbers and the results look good.
Yes Pogacar REC will be higher but worth bearing in mind that he lost time to Roglic on the big mtn stage the other day and Roglic's collapse today brought back memories of his failure at the Giro, so clearly a rec problem even though in this Tour it was just one day.
A bit later I will post the expected climbing stats for the new update here and any comments welcome.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 19-09-2020 19:13
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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These are the provisional climbing stats for the next update and have listed just some of the main climbers in the Tour with mtn and hill followed by REC. Obviously all the other stats not listed such as ACC, RES and TT etc have a big impact too but have just listed these three below.
Pogacar 82/78 (79)
Roglic 82/78 (75)
Pinot 82/77 (68)
Bernal 82/76 (79)
Landa 81/77 (81)
Lopez 81/77 (76)
Porte 81/77 (73)
Quintana 81/76 (75)
Kuss 81/75 (75)
Uran 80/78 (79)
A.Yates 80/78 (71)
Bardet 80/78 (76)
Dumoulin 80/77 (78)
Mas 80/77 (77)
Martin 79/78 (76)
Valverde 78/80 (75)
WVA 75/76 (76)
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 19-09-2020 19:48
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Some comments:
- Roglic at 75 REC seems a bit off, even after his collapse today he still finished 4-3-1-2 in his last GT's and should be amongst the highest here
- I understand why you turnet Pinot into the one dimentional climber that can't do anything in a GT, but there was some bad luck involved as well. I still think he should be more balance because he was really close a few times.
- I would rate Lopez as the better climber over Porte and Landa, sure his time trial and/or recovery was horrible but in the mountains he was better so I wouldn't give him the exact same MO/Hill.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 19-09-2020 20:02
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Very good stats I only would change Roglic more Rec like 78/79 (Pogaçar he can be 80/81 in Rec), Superman Lopez 82 in Mountain, Richie Porte 78 in Hill, Guillaume Martin 77 in Hill and Sepp Kuss 76 in Hill
Edited by AiZaK on 19-09-2020 20:22
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 19-09-2020 20:29
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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Agreed with Ollfardh. Roglic was in total control of Vuelta last year and this year he looked the strongest in the final mountain stage in the Tour ( stage 18 ) as well. He just had an under-par day today coupled with Pogacar's staggering ( New climb record despite bike change, after flying in the flat already! ) performance. He should have 78 or so in REC, and Pogacar should have 82 REC or so ( he was flying in Vuelta stage 20 as well )
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan'
Gracias Alberto.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 19-09-2020 20:58
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Great and these are just the comments that I'm looking for to get as many perspectives as possible and will look at these suggestions. Bear in mind though that to really use REC effectively we really have to make the widest use of it.
I agree with Lopez being probably worth a point over Landa and Porte and we could have Lopez at 82 and those two at 81 or at 81 and those two at 80. Overall I couldn't decide when doing the list and just left them all 81 for now.
Not sure if Pogacar should be more than 80 rec and would say he's like Froome meaning that he can can randomly doing something special in the final week whereas riders like Kruijswijk, Landa and Nibali are more consistent in the final week, I know Landa had a disappointing day but he does have a superb record in the third week. Landa worth 78 hill as I just remembered that he can do well at Basque whereas Porte only really does well in hills Down Under.
Pogacar 82/78 (79)
Roglic 82/78 (77)
Pinot 82/77 (68)
Lopez 82/77 (75)
Bernal 82/76 (79)
Landa 81/78 (81)
Porte 81/77 (73)
Quintana 81/76 (75)
Kuss 81/76 (75)
Uran 80/78 (79)
A.Yates 80/78 (71)
Bardet 80/78 (76)
Dumoulin 80/77 (78)
Mas 80/77 (77)
Martin 79/78 (76)
Valverde 78/80 (75)
WVA 75/76 (76)
Edited by Tafiolmo on 19-09-2020 21:17
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 19-09-2020 21:15
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo, Do you put tomorrow the Top Sprinters, no?? |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 19-09-2020 21:17
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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AiZaK wrote:
Tafiolmo, Do you put tomorrow the Top Sprinters, no??
Will certainly put the sprinters tomorrow as well after the stage.
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 19-09-2020 21:26
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Team Manager
Posts: 6508
Joined: 14-09-2008
PCM$: 1090.00
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How would you rate Buchmann? Imo, he should be among the top climbers, 81 at least, possibly 82, as he's been able to hang with the best consistently when healthy. Above average rec as well. He tends to get better as the races go on. 2018 Vuelta is the obvious exception, but he had issues with wateriness in his legs back then due to his nutrition, which has since been fixed. To balance high MO and RES, he should have relatively low HI and especially AC, as he's really more of a Basso than a Contador. Mediocre TT, 73-75 I'd say, he's been getting better in that regard.
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 19-09-2020 21:31
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Imo Buchmann is 81, and 77 for Rec |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 19-09-2020 21:43
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Listing others here that are not at the Tour or in the case of Buchmann forgot to add him to the list:
S.Yates 81/78 (73)
Buchmann 81/77 (77) acc 70 and 74 res
Steve K 81/76 (80)
Carapaz 80/77 (79) Based on his Giro
Nibali 80/76 (82)
Thomas 80/77 (77)
Froome 80/75 (79) We don't really know enough
Fuglsang 79/80 (67)
Bilbao 79/77 (77)
Caruso 78/77 (77)
Edited by Tafiolmo on 19-09-2020 22:12
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 19-09-2020 21:52
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Imo Nibali 78 in Hills, Carapaz 77 in Hills and Froome 76 in Hills |
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