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PCM.daily Stat Discussion
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 06-09-2020 20:16
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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As far as I'm aware the following riders were injured when the Tour started and with the exception of Bernal have looked injured so probably not fair to downgrade them. Pinot though was never a popular 82 mtn with me anyway  But given that the majority of opinions wanted him 82 he was put 82 but I think he should be 81 anyway injury or no injury.
Pinot
Buchmann
Roglic (possibly)
Bernal (possibly)
D.Martin
Martinez
Sivakov
Edited by Tafiolmo on 06-09-2020 22:00
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 06-09-2020 21:55
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
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Add Roglic to that list, he suffered the same injuries as Buchmann. With Martinez its uncertain whether he is injured from that crash or just not Stroh enough. Both is possible imo. We can definitely add Sivakov to the injured list too. Bernal was "only" back problems, more of a chronic discomfort as of late than an injury (if I understand Ineos communication correctly). Pinot indeed suffers an injury from the crash on day 1 according to Marc Madiot.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 06-09-2020 21:59
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Croatia14 wrote:
Add Roglic to that list, he suffered the same injuries as Buchmann. With Martinez its uncertain whether he is injured from that crash or just not Stroh enough. Both is possible imo. We can definitely add Sivakov to the injured list too. Bernal was "only" back problems, more of a chronic discomfort as of late than an injury (if I understand Ineos communication correctly). Pinot indeed suffers an injury from the crash on day 1 according to Marc Madiot.
I completely forgot about Sivakov so have added him. Buchmann who looked very good at Dauphine has suffered really badly so far whereas Roglic we've not really noticed any real injury problems so far.
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 09-09-2020 16:54
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Guys, any changes on Top Sprinters stats??? |
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| Arberg |
Posted on 09-09-2020 17:01
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 265
Joined: 09-04-2018
PCM$: 200.00
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Ewan deserves 83/83 in SP/ACC. IMO. |
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| Arberg |
Posted on 09-09-2020 18:48
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 265
Joined: 09-04-2018
PCM$: 200.00
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Gilbert and Trentin must not have 71 in mountain, they no Van Aert!
Trentin a little down in SP and ACC.
Gilbert and Trentin 68-69 in mountain, Van Aert 72-73 in mountain.
Trentin 76 SP and 76 ACC. Van Aert 78 SP and 78 ACC.
Edited by Arberg on 09-09-2020 18:59
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 10-09-2020 21:52
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Aizak/Arberg I have been doing a lot of work with the sprinter stats especially for the Tour de France and Tirreno Adriatico and also have revised some races again from earlier in the season. These are some of the observations for riders mentioned:
Ewan- I would say that 83/83 is too high for him as he's not the fastest sprinter imo with his front end FE both Ackermann and Groenewegen are faster BUT where Ewan is the best in the world is with his acc so that will be the best in the game. If you watch nearly all the sprints he wins or nearly wins, he wins these sprints very late in the final metres.
Gilbert and Trentin may have been a bit high in mtn and have therefore lowered them a bit as their high res helps them and made sure that they are below GVA also with high RES and he does quite well surprisingly in mtn for stages in GT's and he is 71.
Trentin though is easily worth his sprint stats because if you check his results he consistently finishes behind the top sprinters and often beats sprinters with 78 and 79 stats and if you look he's 5th in the green jersey meaning that he's consistently getting points in the int.sprints during the stages.
WVA well I've gone with Olifardh and Croatia's suggestion of a two point difference and favor 79/77 but 78/76 is possible too.
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 10-09-2020 22:34
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I agree with 79/77 for Van Aert or 79/78 because Bol is 79/76 and Van Aert is much better than him |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 13:35
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 11-09-2020 09:46
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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AiZaK wrote:
I agree with 79/77 for Van Aert or 79/78 because Bol is 79/76 and Van Aert is much better than him
Actually as part of the sprint stats update and changes to some of the riders in general I think Bol is actually better at 80/76 as he's like Kristoff with this huge front end sprint but very poor acc. Kristoff is 80/77 and is probably worth that extra point for his experience and of course has higher backup stats. Bear in mind that Bol despite not winning a stage at the Tour has actually finished higher than both Bennett and Sagan on a couple of stages and they are currently 81/82 and 79/80 and have far superior acc
Edited by Tafiolmo on 11-09-2020 09:58
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| Arberg |
Posted on 11-09-2020 17:00
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 265
Joined: 09-04-2018
PCM$: 200.00
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Mountain stats.
82: Roglic, Pogacar, Bernal.
81: Urán, Quintana, Landa, Lopez, S.Yates, Kruijswijk, Froome.
80: Pinot, Porte, Bardet, Dumoulin, Blichmann, Nibali, Thomas.
79: A.Yates, Carapaz, Kuss, Mollema, Majka.
78: Valverde, G.Martin, Barguil, Fuglsang, Sivakov, Mas, Evenepoel.
I will update when the tour de france is finished.
Edited by Arberg on 11-09-2020 18:16
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| hansw |
Posted on 11-09-2020 19:07
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Amateur
Posts: 21
Joined: 17-07-2018
PCM$: 200.00
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I would give G. Martin 79. He and Bardet crashed, hes only 14 sec behind Bardet (80). Pinot maybe 81 because he was injured, this and last year (i think he also has low back up stats). And maybe im a fan boy, but Porte looks same as strong as Landa, so with his low back up stats maybe 81. |
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| gargatouf |
Posted on 12-09-2020 08:17
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 320
Joined: 28-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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First of all, thanks for the DB. I’m very much enjoying it.
I think the stats for the top riders are fine, don’t think much needs to be changed, probably a point here and there for mountain or hills or cobbles, but we could be debating for years about them.
What I wanted to bring up are the stats for second tier sprinters. In the career I am playing at the moment, Thomas Boudat has won something like 25 races (and it’s only mid July). He has won them in races on the French calendar, so not the hardest races, but at the same time, not the easiest ones either and usually with a decent start list of similar sprinters. I think his stats are 76 in SPR and ACC.
I don’t know if his (and sprinters at a similar level) back up stats should be lower than they are now. I am wondering if anyone has the same issues with second tier sprinters winning way too many races than they should. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 12-09-2020 08:42
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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gargatouf wrote:
First of all, thanks for the DB. I’m very much enjoying it.
I think the stats for the top riders are fine, don’t think much needs to be changed, probably a point here and there for mountain or hills or cobbles, but we could be debating for years about them.
What I wanted to bring up are the stats for second tier sprinters. In the career I am playing at the moment, Thomas Boudat has won something like 25 races (and it’s only mid July). He has won them in races on the French calendar, so not the hardest races, but at the same time, not the easiest ones either and usually with a decent start list of similar sprinters. I think his stats are 76 in SPR and ACC.
I don’t know if his (and sprinters at a similar level) back up stats should be lower than they are now. I am wondering if anyone has the same issues with second tier sprinters winning way too many races than they should.
There won't be much change with the top mtn stats and will post them here soon.
Second tier sprinters though is a more serious problem and I have constantly had the same issues as you for sometime now.
1. I tried to fix this recently by increasing the sprint stats of the best sprinters so that they were even higher than the second tier sprinters but didn't work as well as it should or expected it would but I did see some improvement.
2. Dropping the back up stats of second tier sprinters could work on somebody like Boudat but won't work on riders like Pederson or Trentin etc as these are classics riders first and foremost and need big flat and RES as classics riders.
3. I then thought in the past of increasing the RES also of the best sprinters which is what we have now but when not on sprint duties tend to pace their team up mtns which I found unrealistic.
4. Part of the main problem though is with the game AI as it can start the stage with say Ewan and Bennett as favs but when the sprint starts these riders tend to start their sprint too early and run out of energy and a second tier sprinter comes through and wins and who is much lower in sprint stats as well.
The solution- Could be to increase the best sprinters even more and use the top stats of 83 or higher even and a good option could be to increase the quality of the leadout trains of the best sprinters because second tier sprinters in bigger races seldom have a leadout train, meaning that the best leadout trains will last longer and the main sprinter saves more energy and starts his sprint later.
Will do some more work on this but as always any ideas are welcome
Edited by Tafiolmo on 12-09-2020 08:48
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 12-09-2020 11:16
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
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hansw wrote:
I would give G. Martin 79. He and Bardet crashed, hes only 14 sec behind Bardet (80). Pinot maybe 81 because he was injured, this and last year (i think he also has low back up stats). And maybe im a fan boy, but Porte looks same as strong as Landa, so with his low back up stats maybe 81.
Are you sure? Only know about Bardet and Mollema crashing, not Martin.
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| flofromuk |
Posted on 12-09-2020 11:25
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Amateur
Posts: 1
Joined: 07-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg wrote:
Mountain stats.
82: Roglic, Pogacar, Bernal.
81: Urán, Quintana, Landa, Lopez, S.Yates, Kruijswijk, Froome.
80: Pinot, Porte, Bardet, Dumoulin, Blichmann, Nibali, Thomas.
79: A.Yates, Carapaz, Kuss, Mollema, Majka.
78: Valverde, G.Martin, Barguil, Fuglsang, Sivakov, Mas, Evenepoel.
I will update when the tour de france is finished.
After 2 years, every no name 21 years old will be 84 on Mountain anyway lol |
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 12-09-2020 17:25
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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Pinot got injured this year.
Also Uran 81 and Nibali 80? Really, Arberg?
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan'
Gracias Alberto.
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| hansw |
Posted on 12-09-2020 18:24
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Amateur
Posts: 21
Joined: 17-07-2018
PCM$: 200.00
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Croatia14 wrote:
hansw wrote:
I would give G. Martin 79. He and Bardet crashed, hes only 14 sec behind Bardet (80). Pinot maybe 81 because he was injured, this and last year (i think he also has low back up stats). And maybe im a fan boy, but Porte looks same as strong as Landa, so with his low back up stats maybe 81.
Are you sure? Only know about Bardet and Mollema crashing, not Martin.
On stage 10 not 13. Since then he seems to be weaker (for me). Great job btw by you guys. Thank you for that! |
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| Arberg |
Posted on 13-09-2020 15:57
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 265
Joined: 09-04-2018
PCM$: 200.00
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van Aert 75 mountain ? |
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| Arberg |
Posted on 13-09-2020 16:33
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 265
Joined: 09-04-2018
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg wrote:
Roglic is my and the bookmakers' favorite to win the tour.
Quintana has not shown anything in the big races for several years. |
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| alex199412 |
Posted on 13-09-2020 18:42
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Junior Rider
Posts: 39
Joined: 27-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Hey, i have returned to PCM after 3 years of a break and i really enjoy the DB you guys made, stat wise i wonder how to reflect the ris eof guys like MVP, Evenepoel or WVA who are beasts in nearly every discipline, i mean WVA could have be now above 75 in every stat post tdf yet in the game he only will do properly well in the cobbled classics.
another consideration stat wise should be to avoid having the top guys being categorised as "breakaway specialists" because the progression of them is then all messed up (happen to MVP in my career) |
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