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News in July
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 10-07-2020 13:42
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The Froome question is an interesting one especially since his team effectively has three GT leaders above him for the 3 GT's in Thomas, Bernal and Carapaz. Froome is almost like a free player now especially since he's going to a new team next season but will he play the loyal luxury dom for the other three, possibly go rogue or just hope an opportunity arises where he can go for the overall in a GT this year, these are interesting questions which will get answered very quickly due to the condensed nature of this season coming up.
The Froome condition situation draws a good comparison with Lemond back in the late 80s/early 90s as both riders had suffered from very different accidents but the effects on Lemond effectively made him no longer a contender for GT's even though he refused to throw in the towel. Froome like Lemond when the condition is there has great powers of recovery of which was last seen at Giro 2018 which was one of the amazing performances in any recent GT. I know that had those two lazy riders helped Dumoulin instead of wheel sucking him for the whole stage the outcome may have been different but they didn't and Froome sealed an historic victory.
Also Thomas was never stronger than Froome in 2018 and both he and Dumoulin were both stronger than Thomas that year. I'm no Froome fan but imo Thomas, Bernal and Carapaz will never be as good as him and I'd even go to say that this year with the demise of Froome, the team to watch will probably be Jumbo-Visma as the head to head between them and Ineos should be epic but I still think Froome has a key role to play somewhere here and it's too early imo to write him off at this level.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 10-07-2020 13:47
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| Shonak |
Posted on 10-07-2020 13:59
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Tour de France Champion
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ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
Literally says he wants to win his fifth tour. I have treated Contador as a contender until the last race, I also do that for Froome and like any rider he needs a strong team around him.
Contador retired at 34, having not finished on the podium at a grand tour for the 2 seasons prior to that.
So what?  What's difficult to understand about the word contender? But sure let's talk about Contador years after the retirement, I am sure your thoughts will add a lot new valuable insights
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 10-07-2020 14:11
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
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Tafiolmo wrote:
The Froome condition situation draws a good comparison with Lemond back in the late 80s/early 90s as both riders had suffered from very different accidents but the effects on Lemond effectively made him no longer a contender for GT's even though he refused to throw in the towel. Froome like Lemond when the condition is there has great powers of recovery of which was last seen at Giro 2018 which was one of the amazing performances in any recent GT. I know that had those two lazy riders helped Dumoulin instead of wheel sucking him for the whole stage the outcome may have been different but they didn't and Froome sealed an historic victory.
Hard to talk about Lemond being affected by injuries given he was SHOT BY A GUN, missed two years then won his return Tour, which happened to also be the closest TDF in history. Oh, and won the year after that as well for good measure. Ultimately the primary reason he stop contending was EPO.
Maybe i've missed your point here about Lemond, unless you're expecting Froome to be as good as ever.
And let us not all forget, one of the reasons we never heard of Chris before 2011 was that he was fighting off Bilharzia, a well known very damaging, tough and potentially fatal disease. Coming back from a leg break, easy!
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 10-07-2020 20:20
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Classics Specialist
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Shonak wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
Literally says he wants to win his fifth tour. I have treated Contador as a contender until the last race, I also do that for Froome and like any rider he needs a strong team around him.
Contador retired at 34, having not finished on the podium at a grand tour for the 2 seasons prior to that.
So what? What's difficult to understand about the word contender? But sure let's talk about Contador years after the retirement, I am sure your thoughts will add a lot new valuable insights
Well you are using Contador as an example of why Froome can still be a "contender" at 36, even though Contador wasn't really a contender for the couple of years before he retired at 34. Contador certainly wouldn't have been a contender aged 36.
As I said previously, the oldest ever winner of the tour was 36, in the 1920s. No-one has ever won aged 35 and only 4 riders have won aged 34. Evans was the last, before that it was Zoetemelk in 1980. Froome will be 36 at ISUN. He will simply not be a contender at that time. Ineos know that which is why they've let him go. Froome wanted to be the team leader and Ineos know they've got 3 better/stronger options.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 10-07-2020 20:42
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Tour de France Champion
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Valverde finished 2nd in last years Veulta, aged 39. 3rd in the 2015 Tour aged 35. JC Peraud 2nd 2014 Tour, aged 36. Chris Horner won the 2013 Vuelta at 41. Purito was 2nd in 2015 Vuelta at 35. Nibali was 2nd in last years Giro at 34. Cuddles was 3rd in 2013 Giro at 34.
All were contenders to win those GT's. Froome can still easily be a contender at 36. And this is not including guys like Voeckler who eventually drifted off the podium in the last days and i'd call contenders in their respective races.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 10-07-2020 20:56
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
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ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
Literally says he wants to win his fifth tour. I have treated Contador as a contender until the last race, I also do that for Froome and like any rider he needs a strong team around him.
Contador retired at 34, having not finished on the podium at a grand tour for the 2 seasons prior to that.
So what? What's difficult to understand about the word contender? But sure let's talk about Contador years after the retirement, I am sure your thoughts will add a lot new valuable insights
Well you are using Contador as an example of why Froome can still be a "contender" at 36, even though Contador wasn't really a contender for the couple of years before he retired at 34. Contador certainly wouldn't have been a contender aged 36.
As I said previously, the oldest ever winner of the tour was 36, in the 1920s. No-one has ever won aged 35 and only 4 riders have won aged 34. Evans was the last, before that it was Zoetemelk in 1980. Froome will be 36 at ISUN. He will simply not be a contender at that time. Ineos know that which is why they've let him go. Froome wanted to be the team leader and Ineos know they've got 3 better/stronger options.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 04-12-2024 19:51
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| Shonak |
Posted on 10-07-2020 20:58
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Tour de France Champion
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Valverde finished 2nd in last years Veulta, aged 39. 3rd in the 2015 Tour aged 35. JC Peraud 2nd 2014 Tour, aged 36. Chris Horner won the 2013 Vuelta at 41. Purito was 2nd in 2015 Vuelta at 35. Nibali was 2nd in last years Giro at 34. Cuddles was 3rd in 2013 Giro at 34.
All were contenders to win those GT's. Froome can still easily be a contender at 36. And this is not including guys like Voeckler who eventually drifted off the podium in the last days and i'd call contenders in their respective races.
Why try Manx, ringo went through sky school and for him a contender is only someone who has already won the race before the race even begins - true marginal gains
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 10-07-2020 21:01
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Classics Specialist
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Valverde finished 2nd in last years Veulta, aged 39. 3rd in the 2015 Tour aged 35. JC Peraud 2nd 2014 Tour, aged 36. Chris Horner won the 2013 Vuelta at 41. Purito was 2nd in 2015 Vuelta at 35. Nibali was 2nd in last years Giro at 34. Cuddles was 3rd in 2013 Giro at 34.
All were contenders to win those GT's. Froome can still easily be a contender at 36. And this is not including guys like Voeckler who eventually drifted off the podium in the last days and i'd call contenders in their respective races.
Well the Giro and Vuelta are typically weaker than the tour. A podium finish at the Giro/Vuelta isnt the same a a podium finish at the Tour.
The top tens in the 2014/15 tours were very weak. Van Garderen finished 5th in 14 and Ten Dam finished in the top ten. In 2015 the likes of Gesink, Frank and Rolland finished in the top 10.
You've got to look at results in perspective. Pernaud finished second, but nearly 8 minutes down after Froome crashed out early on.
It's all opinion. I don't think Froome will be the same rider this year. And certainly not by the time he joins ISUN.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Shonak |
Posted on 10-07-2020 21:03
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
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Speaking of the legend that is Alberto Contador Velasco.
Alberto Contador sets new Everesting record
https://www.googl...ng-record/
Still shoots wattage bazookas.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 10-07-2020 21:10
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
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ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
Literally says he wants to win his fifth tour. I have treated Contador as a contender until the last race, I also do that for Froome and like any rider he needs a strong team around him.
Contador retired at 34, having not finished on the podium at a grand tour for the 2 seasons prior to that.
So what? What's difficult to understand about the word contender? But sure let's talk about Contador years after the retirement, I am sure your thoughts will add a lot new valuable insights
Well you are using Contador as an example of why Froome can still be a "contender" at 36, even though Contador wasn't really a contender for the couple of years before he retired at 34. Contador certainly wouldn't have been a contender aged 36.
As I said previously, the oldest ever winner of the tour was 36, in the 1920s. No-one has ever won aged 35 and only 4 riders have won aged 34. Evans was the last, before that it was Zoetemelk in 1980. Froome will be 36 at ISUN. He will simply not be a contender at that time. Ineos know that which is why they've let him go. Froome wanted to be the team leader and Ineos know they've got 3 better/stronger options. Froome podiumed the Tour after winning a very tough Giro. He was the biggest favourite for last years TDF till his crash at Dauphine. If he has recovered from is injuries ( which is a big if ), he is one of the big favourites. It is crazy to say that he is not a contender just because he would be 36.
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan'
Gracias Alberto.
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 10-07-2020 21:21
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I feel so excited for this TDF more than than any other and I’m curious to see if Froome will be part of the squad |
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| deek12345 |
Posted on 10-07-2020 21:22
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Classics Specialist
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retired to early he had a good 2years in him . |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 10-07-2020 21:42
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Tour de France Champion
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I still want the Alonso - Contador super team we were promised! And Fernando is proving you can make a comeback after a break....
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 10-07-2020 21:59
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
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TheManxMissile wrote:
I still want the Alonso - Contador super team we were promised! And Fernando is proving you can make a comeback after a break.... Well, Alonso was still amazing in 2018, completely destroyed Vandoorne and then had great drives at WEC and Dakar after retirement, so he should race while he is still very competititve.
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan'
Gracias Alberto.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 10-07-2020 22:00
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
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Yes, and except for that weird first time loss, he was beasting it in that Vuelta, attacking at every turn. Plus best win to retire, so its ok but would have liked to see him for one or two more years too.
@Manx: Bertie as Ds would be fun to watch for sure. Only option is to attack 
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 10-07-2020 22:08
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Shonak wrote:
Yes, and except for that weird first time loss, he was beasting it in that Vuelta, attacking at every turn. Plus best win to retire, so its ok but would have liked to see him for one or two more years too.
@Manx: Bertie as Ds would be fun to watch for sure. Only option is to attack Yes, he was very good, and my own explanation about that race was that, since he lost the early time, and since it was his last race, he acted more freely in terms of doping-clinic. Especially when compared with his teammate Andre Cardoso testing positive just before the Tour. It was like he was told to stay under the radar in the Tour, but the crashes at stage 9 also contributed a part.
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan'
Gracias Alberto.
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| FreitasPCM |
Posted on 15-07-2020 19:31
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Grand Tour Champion
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First official UCI stage since Paris-Nice  cancelled after an accident involving a motorbike in the final circuit, around 30km from the finish line, in Poland.
https://www.cycli...-incident/ |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 16-07-2020 11:31
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Classics Specialist
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Shonak wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Valverde finished 2nd in last years Veulta, aged 39. 3rd in the 2015 Tour aged 35. JC Peraud 2nd 2014 Tour, aged 36. Chris Horner won the 2013 Vuelta at 41. Purito was 2nd in 2015 Vuelta at 35. Nibali was 2nd in last years Giro at 34. Cuddles was 3rd in 2013 Giro at 34.
All were contenders to win those GT's. Froome can still easily be a contender at 36. And this is not including guys like Voeckler who eventually drifted off the podium in the last days and i'd call contenders in their respective races.
Why try Manx, ringo went through sky school and for him a contender is only someone who has already won the race before the race even begins - true marginal gains
My point is simply that Froome will not be at the same level he was pre his crash, when he was basically unbeatable in Grand Tours between 2013-2018. A loss of 5% at that level can see you go from a contender to an also ran who may get into the top 5 if everything goes your way. I think Froome will not be at the same level and so will not be a contender at the Tour, the toughest stage race on the racing calendar.
He may still be a very strong rider. He may have good results in other races. He may still be considered a contender by some (depending on how many riders you consider to be true contenders at any given Tour). But, based on the last couple of seasons, he has two stronger riders in his own team before you start to consider other teams.
We will see when the season restarts, but my opinion is that he won't be as strong as he was before his crash, before his long lay off, before he became a father for the second time, before he reached an age when only one rider has ever won the Tour (in the 1920s) and before he agreed to leave Ineos at the end of the season.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Arberg |
Posted on 18-07-2020 15:09
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Froome wins of course! Because he's Froome! |
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| Vali |
Posted on 18-07-2020 20:34
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Domestique
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The man, the myth, the legend, Arberg is back.
Credits to the_hoyle for my avatar. |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
