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[PT/PCT/CT] Calendar, Goals and Race Profiles 2019
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 06-09-2019 07:10
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Luis Leon Sanchez wrote:
jandal7 wrote:
Aquarius97 wrote:
Btw, i'm obviously going to wait to send Goals until a Post-Renewals DB is released 
We established in Skype I think that it's not guaranteed to happen in that order as some guys wait to do their renewals until they have their budget which comes from goals 
I feel like it's more important to have the DB before setting goals, so teams actually know who is available for everyone, than it is to have budget before renewals?
What is there to know? We know the disbanding teams, we know 95-99% of FA additions. All we'll see is a handful of riders released, of which the majority are mid-level domestiques.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 15:52
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| knockout |
Posted on 06-09-2019 10:42
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Luis Leon Sanchez wrote:
jandal7 wrote:
Aquarius97 wrote:
Btw, i'm obviously going to wait to send Goals until a Post-Renewals DB is released
We established in Skype I think that it's not guaranteed to happen in that order as some guys wait to do their renewals until they have their budget which comes from goals
I feel like it's more important to have the DB before setting goals, so teams actually know who is available for everyone, than it is to have budget before renewals?
What is there to know? We know the disbanding teams, we know 95-99% of FA additions. All we'll see is a handful of riders released, of which the majority are mid-level domestiques.
- Stats of FA talents to see if available salary cap can go to one star or if another big talent has to be fitted into cap calculations too
- salaries of potential top targets to see if you can even make enough cap space for them / which leaders would have to be sold to get the cap work out
- released riders: since the riders can be offended, every year there was at least one or two bigger stars that were surprisingly released. Also what would be a domestique to PT could be a leader to a PCT or CT team
- cap situation of other teams: if an american pt team ends up with 2m cap space after renewals your odds of signing Phinney for a reasonable wage go down a lot
- depth of fa class to estimate fa prizes
Not saying that i absolutely need to know all those things but those are things that i looked for in the past when the db was available
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| Scorchio |
Posted on 06-09-2019 12:10
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knockout wrote:
..... [Previous comments cut for brevity, but still relevant to the discussion]
- Stats of FA talents to see if available salary cap can go to one star or if another big talent has to be fitted into cap calculations too
- salaries of potential top targets to see if you can even make enough cap space for them / which leaders would have to be sold to get the cap work out
- released riders: since the riders can be offended, every year there was at least one or two bigger stars that were surprisingly released. Also what would be a domestique to PT could be a leader to a PCT or CT team
- cap situation of other teams: if an american pt team ends up with 2m cap space after renewals your odds of signing Phinney for a reasonable wage go down a lot
- depth of fa class to estimate fa prizes
Not saying that i absolutely need to know all those things but those are things that i looked for in the past when the db was available
I agree that these are quite major benefits. However, in my opinion, this is exactly why any post-renewals/pre-transfers DB should NOT be released until everyone is finished renewals (and potentially goal-setting). (Similar with stat gains and the pre-renewals DB, but that not as major). Folk hold out as long as they can with management tasks in the hope of gathering further relevant information (released offended riders f.e. is a major benefit to know, along with cap situation of other teams). This is sensible 'play', but if it means that one or two hold-outs are slowing everything down, it is not benefitting the game. If this is seen as the default way to play, we should all be notified and follow that timeline. If instead the intent is to keep things moving along during the pre-season, then deadlines should be set and DB releases with-held until all completed the current relevant task, or deadline passed and a sensible admin decision made regarding the approach to missing contributers.
Many of the off-season tasks are quite complicated or involved for those taking the game more seriously(f.e. studying the new calendar to set goals, or pre-transfer DB to identify targets take time). The time demands on, and availability of admins is also relevant. Of course folks can also be on holiday or some such, so deadlines don't need to be short, just hard!
Finally, this is not aimed at KO - his last sentence encapsulates the point; if this option is possible, some will try to utilise - if it is taken of the table, a strong inclanation to hold off that can be delaying progress of the game is removed.
Manager of ISA - Hexacta in the MG |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 06-09-2019 12:59
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knockout wrote:
- Stats of FA talents to see if available salary cap can go to one star or if another big talent has to be fitted into cap calculations too
Stats of the big talents are known, ok we might see a couple of minor changes but we know who the big new riders are at this point. I could be wrong but one new Pot5/6 rider won't change your Goals.
- salaries of potential top targets to see if you can even make enough cap space for them / which leaders would have to be sold to get the cap work out
This seems like a Renewal/Transfers related issue, not one related to Goals? Unless I'm missing your point here.
Yes I will need a new DB before Transfers to see who I need to sell/sign/etc. but my outline plan was made ages ago to allow me to do Renewals. This Cap issue has no impact on my Goals selection.
- released riders: since the riders can be offended, every year there was at least one or two bigger stars that were surprisingly released. Also what would be a domestique to PT could be a leader to a PCT or CT team
I do give there will be a couple of bigger name riders hitting FA after renewals, but does this make that big of an impact on your Goals selection when compared against the already known FA's? It's an equal argument that some big riders will be put up for sale in Transfers, but should we hold off sending in Goals until mid-transfers?
- cap situation of other teams: if an american pt team ends up with 2m cap space after renewals your odds of signing Phinney for a reasonable wage go down a lot
Signing someone at a reasonable wage affects Goals? Signing a big name rider overall impacts yes, but to me that's part of the risk-reward of Goals. Target a Goal around a big name and if you get him you're in the money, but if you risk it and miss tough luck. The balance is to base Goals more around your current crop or a prediction, not set facts and known quantities.
Think of it this way, 7 new PT teams this season all get 1mil extra cap space for free. I assume each of those will have another 100k-500k cap ontop of that as a minimum. So in can guess pretty comfortably where those big name wages will end up and plan accordingly now.
Perhaps it's just that we have very different approaches to the game, where I am more comfortable making guesses compared to more details planning. But knowing there are people yet to even start renewals I know this new DB is probably a good week away yet, and I'd rather those who are able were ready for when everyone catches up, rather than going slow now to continue going slow in another weeks time.
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| roturn |
Posted on 06-09-2019 13:08
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The race profile forum is complete and all races should have the pictures now.
If you can`t see one, please first empty your cache as this usually solves the problem. If still not visible, please post here that one is missing.
Regarding the renewals/goals clash.
One thing is obvious. There won`t be any post renewals DB until all teams are done with renewals.
So I really would like to get all renewals done until Wednesday next week.
There is one big issue with delaying the game. It`s already later than I had hoped and it will be hard for me to do lots of off-season stuff when we delay it further as I will move into a busy period soon.
So transfer start in next 7-10 days would be great for me to avoid being in the super busy period myself when a lot of work is needed. Can`t tell if this works as also other things need to be taken care ofbut the more we move away from this date, the more busy I get and I doubt anyone wants a longer break between renewals (which are almost finished) and transfers. |
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| sgdanny |
Posted on 06-09-2019 13:19
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7-10 days is very optimistic, but lets try to make it work!!
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 06-09-2019 14:40
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roturn wrote:
The race profile forum is complete and all races should have the pictures now.
Will the Avenir profiles be added later?
And do Avenir race days actually count to a rider's RDs or not? As far as I've understood, Avenir is a "fun race" where every participant gets 20XP, but does not need to spend RDs and doesn't get any points. Or have I missed something? I'm not quite sure, as all other "Other Races" don't give you any XP, so Avenir seems to be quite a special case. |
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| roturn |
Posted on 06-09-2019 14:44
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Avenir profiles will come much later during the season only.
But it always is the same race type with mountains, hills, time trials and flat stages.
It won`t cost race days and also won`t give ranking points and you don`t need to select it pre season as other races.
During the season the selection process will come in a Avenir thread. And whoever nominates riders in this thread then will get 20xp for those riders. |
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 06-09-2019 14:52
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So it's quite much how I understood it. Thanks for confirmation.
I was actually asking because I wondered whether it would make sense to send Stagiaries to Avenir, as this would make 9 out of 15 RDs. But with Avenir being a race outside the regular calendar, it does perfectly make sense. |
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| Scorchio |
Posted on 06-09-2019 18:21
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Apologies, bumping this from earlier as may have been missed, or perhaps is still being debated?
Scorchio wrote:
@Roturn:
Would it be possible to clarify the PCT teams in C2 races rider restrictions earlier this season so that it can be factored into race selection, thanks!
Speaking personally, I think the maximum OVR of 74.49 worked pretty well last season, but still want to lobby that the COB stat max gets lifted to 77 to match TT restriction; I can't see why it is justified that they are different. In combo with the OVR stat limit, this would still mean that plenty of 2018 CT riders were significantly stronger cobblers that anything CT could send.
An additional clarification query regarding the calendar: Following last seasons approach, does Tour of America still award HC points, although C1 rated?
Thanks again as always .
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| Kentaurus |
Posted on 06-09-2019 18:36
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The only information I think should be made public, because I don't think it is random is the money involved based on goals. Some page somewhere letting us know that accomplishing X goal returns a set amount. And how much each point of goals is worth. This should give teams a way to calculate and be able to expect their next season budget.
AZTECA - NBCSN  |
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| Marcovdw |
Posted on 06-09-2019 18:52
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Does the RD calculation remain exactly the same as last year? So from the pre-renewals DB I can deduct the RD for my riders?
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| roturn |
Posted on 06-09-2019 19:07
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Marcovdw wrote:
Does the RD calculation remain exactly the same as last year? So from the pre-renewals DB I can deduct the RD for my riders?
Yes. AVG->RD is same to last year. Obviously some riders changed a bit in AVG and this way will change RD. |
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| roturn |
Posted on 06-09-2019 19:10
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Kentaurus wrote:
The only information I think should be made public, because I don't think it is random is the money involved based on goals. Some page somewhere letting us know that accomplishing X goal returns a set amount. And how much each point of goals is worth. This should give teams a way to calculate and be able to expect their next season budget.
Easy to calculate it a bit.
Higher Goal Cost -> Higher budget in the actual season.
Succeeding Goals (no matter if high or low cost) -> Higher budget in the following season
Failing Goals -> lower budget in the following season
There is no data how much exactly but surely a difference is to see between failed and succeeded goals in long term. |
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| roturn |
Posted on 06-09-2019 19:15
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Scorchio wrote:
Apologies, bumping this from earlier as may have been missed, or perhaps is still being debated?
Scorchio wrote:
@Roturn:
Would it be possible to clarify the PCT teams in C2 races rider restrictions earlier this season so that it can be factored into race selection, thanks!
Speaking personally, I think the maximum OVR of 74.49 worked pretty well last season, but still want to lobby that the COB stat max gets lifted to 77 to match TT restriction; I can't see why it is justified that they are different. In combo with the OVR stat limit, this would still mean that plenty of 2018 CT riders were significantly stronger cobblers that anything CT could send.
An additional clarification query regarding the calendar: Following last seasons approach, does Tour of America still award HC points, although C1 rated?
Thanks again as always .
Calendar: ToA is unchanged. Still C1 rated but HC points. 21 race days.
74.49 is the maximum stat for PCT riders to ride in C2.
Maximum 77 in cob/tt seems fair. |
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| Scorchio |
Posted on 06-09-2019 19:19
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Thanks for clarification Roturn - studying the calendar intensely right now so these sort of details help a lot .
Manager of ISA - Hexacta in the MG |
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| viking90 |
Posted on 06-09-2019 19:43
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roturn wrote:
Kentaurus wrote:
The only information I think should be made public, because I don't think it is random is the money involved based on goals. Some page somewhere letting us know that accomplishing X goal returns a set amount. And how much each point of goals is worth. This should give teams a way to calculate and be able to expect their next season budget.
Easy to calculate it a bit.
Higher Goal Cost -> Higher budget in the actual season.
Succeeding Goals (no matter if high or low cost) -> Higher budget in the following season
Failing Goals -> lower budget in the following season
There is no data how much exactly but surely a difference is to see between failed and succeeded goals in long term.
So I have learnt something new after ages in this game, not that I have giving it much thinking before but I always thought succeding a hard goal would give you higher budget then succeding an easier goal. Not only giving you a higher budget the same year you chosed them. |
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| roturn |
Posted on 06-09-2019 19:48
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Well. I didn't add any numbers.
So I didn't say succeeding high and low goals is the same outcome.
Just the obvious. Succeeding will help you in the next season. |
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| sammyt93 |
Posted on 06-09-2019 19:54
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A couple of quick questions,
How many HC bands do each PCT team ride?
How flexible is the race flexibility? If I already have another Win Goal could I put Win a C1 race or Top 5 an HC race?
What about Win a C1 race or total 10 Stage Wins in the season if I already have another Win Goal?
Seeing as both examples have the same goal cost are they ok or does it have to be a more literal like for like or win one C1 race or another?
Could I make my HC goal a top 5 one race or Points/KOM jersey in another HC race if both are the same points cost?
Sorry, first time thinking about the flexible goal cost as something that tempts me.
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| roturn |
Posted on 06-09-2019 20:19
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Most important about flexible goals is the exact same goal cost.
And no matter which goal you end up with, it must succeed all rules.
And btw. you can have more than 1 win goal.
5 HC
2 PTHC
Edited by roturn on 06-09-2019 20:21
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
