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PCM.daily Stat Discussion
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| quadsas |
Posted on 28-04-2019 16:25
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2518
Joined: 18-01-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Vizbragz wrote:
quadsas wrote:
Vizbragz wrote:
quadsas wrote:
What was changed for Joker? I don't see any stat changes tbf
The new stats only concern three riders (Arnes, Klevjer and Waerenskjold) because they were already adapted for the others.
So you nerfed Waerenskjold...you will regret disrespecting the next superstar
I completely understand your point, it's always difficult to give accurate stats to the Juniors because they don't ride with a pro peloton and the adaptation can be difficult sometimes. Otherwise, he has a potential 6 and I updated his notes thanks to his good Tour du Loir-et-Cher.
I was just kidding. He hasn't done much this year (but he is best Norwegian U20 talent no doubt)
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 28-04-2019 19:31
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ardennes stats are currently being done and are normally a lot trickier to do than the cobbled stats. Largely because now we have three very different races Amstel which is a rolling terrain classic that appeals not only to the puncheurs but to the flatman that can do some hills like Trentin. Fleche-Wallonie the purest hill stat race and LBL that strange mix between hill and mtn.
So a lot of work is being done with the hill, mtn, acc, res and sta for these races. Alaphilippe will still be the best hill stat but Fuglsang will probably be the best all round with his high mtn.
Bear in mind as well that last years stats will still have a lot of relevance so riders like Gasparotto, Vanendert and Woods for example will probably keep their stats despite not being that great this year but a lot of new riders though have come up to share these higher hill stats with them.
Would like to get some stat opinions on these riders as they are not overly easy to stat and all have done well in at least one or all of these classics: Formolo, Schachmann, and Gaudu?
Edited by Tafiolmo on 28-04-2019 22:03
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 28-04-2019 20:41
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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In my opinion:
Vanendert deserves 79 maximum
Formolo 78
Gaudu 78/79
Schachmann 79
And Gilbert 77 |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 29-04-2019 14:17
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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AiZaK wrote:
In my opinion:
Vanendert deserves 79 maximum
Formolo 78
Gaudu 78/79
Schachmann 79
And Gilbert 77
Vanendert will probably stay 80 because the rest of his stats make him "a one trick pony" and even with a high hill will probably not be as good as both Lambrecht and Wellens due to his poor acc. Also worth noting that he does not do well I've noticed in rainy and cold conditions. By having these three riders on similar stats but with notable differences will hopefully confuse the AI into choosing the leader for hilly races
Formolo is impressive and imo worth 79 with more res and sta.
Schachmann also 79 with Kwitakowski type stats as this is a power rider
Gilbert I'd say now no better than 76
Gaudu is the only one that we are still uncertain of. is he a better mtn or hill rider or the same in both. Is inconsistent but as seen can perform in some of the biggest races.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 29-04-2019 14:44
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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79 for Formolo seems generous, he did well this year and the previous year in Liege, but his other hill results are:
27th Fleche Wallonne
23th Lombardia
12th Milano-Turino
All career bests, not that impressive imo. I think a lower hill stat and LBL as a favourite race should be more realistic.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 29-04-2019 16:19
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
79 for Formolo seems generous, he did well this year and the previous year in Liege, but his other hill results are:
27th Fleche Wallonne
23th Lombardia
12th Milano-Turino
All career bests, not that impressive imo. I think a lower hill stat and LBL as a favourite race should be more realistic.
Good points maybe 78 could be a better option. The problem is we have Fuglsang 79/81 and didn't want Formolo a world behind but will consider these other results of Formolo
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| purepasd |
Posted on 29-04-2019 16:45
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Domestique
Posts: 541
Joined: 23-01-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Hmm, don't know if Fuglsang should have 81 HI either. Clearly he was the strongest throughout the ardennes, but not due to his speed on climbs. With 79/80 and Terpstra-like endurance and resistance he would work as the strongest as well right? His incredible engine in all kinds of hard terrain is his speciality. Especially in the longest races.
I agree with Olifardh about 78/78 for Formolo, and LBL as favourite race.
For Gaudu, I rate him equal in HI and MO. Perhaps 78/78 like Formolo, but with weaker backups. His flat stat should be about 70 though. Maybe 72 RES, 73 END. His ACC seems to be his strength, and I'd say 77 here. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 29-04-2019 17:22
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I put Fuglsang79/81 to see what response it would provoke and it seems that 80 might be more sensible with higher res and sta being the focus points. Slicing Formolo at 78/78 with LBL as fav race looks good too. Will get back on Gaudu.
Out of interest do most here think Valverde should be 80 or 81 hill. If the bee swallowing and injury have been that dominant then 81 might be better just one behind Alaphilippe
Another option that we like for Fuglsang is to drop his mtn to 78 so he would be:
78 mtn 81 hill 78 res 80 sta this high hill would probably make him like a 79.5 mtn rider anyway and to be fair he's unproven over GT's
Edited by Tafiolmo on 29-04-2019 17:48
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 29-04-2019 17:46
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
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Yeah I agree Valverde 81 and Alaphilippe 82 |
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| marcoplv95 |
Posted on 29-04-2019 19:08
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Stagiare
Posts: 210
Joined: 18-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Just don't put Formolo 3 his points lower than Fuglsang, he already has better back-up stats. Imho:
Alaphilippe 81 HIL with best ACC
Valverde 80 with good ACC
Fuglsang 80 with best RES and low-mid ACC
Formolo 78 with LBL favourite, mid ACC |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 29-04-2019 19:26
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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marcoplv95 wrote:
Just don't put Formolo 3 his points lower than Fuglsang, he already has better back-up stats. Imho:
Alaphilippe 81 HIL with best ACC
Valverde 80 with good ACC
Fuglsang 80 with best RES and low-mid ACC
Formolo 78 with LBL favourite, mid ACC
hahaha Formolo is 3 points less than Fuglsang in hill which is why I favoured 79 hill BUT we have increased his flat, res and sta so's not hugely weaker than Fuglsang.
I was looking at Formolo's hill results in the first week of Giro 2018 and they were actually very good he seems to do hills better in stage races than classics (LBL exception) and seems to be a kind of hybrid mtn/hill rider
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 19:01
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 29-04-2019 19:26
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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I'm sorry, but there is simply no way Fuglsang doesn't get the (shared) highest Hill stat in game.
Gaudu I'd keep him equal MO/HI so you can choose how you want to develop him. It can still go either way in real life as well.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 29-04-2019 19:33
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
I'm sorry, but there is simply no way Fuglsang doesn't get the (shared) highest Hill stat in game.
Gaudu I'd keep him equal MO/HI so you can choose how you want to develop him. It can still go either way in real life as well.
By giving Fuglsang the shared highest with Alaphilippe you create an even stronger rider due to his higher mtn. Despite Fuglsang's ride at FW had Alaphilippe been better placed hence less catchup to do may have won more easier. The way the stats are done is that Alaphilippe should be better at FW and Fuglsang at LBL and their rider stats are suited better to these races. Also Alaphilippe's much higher acc is countered by Fuglsangs higher res and 4 points higher sta
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 29-04-2019 19:43
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Why give Alaphilippe such low Stamina? He won a 298km monument..
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 29-04-2019 19:49
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
Why give Alaphilippe such low Stamina? He won a 298km monument..
In PCM I've had Cavendish win a couple of MSR with just 73 or so sta and much like irl it's quite common for lower sta riders to do well in that race as in not finishing too far behind especially if the sun is shining. With the exception of once finishing 2nd at LBL Alaphilippe has struggled a bit in really hard sta races like Worlds 2018 and LBL 2019. He's kind of like Sagan in that he has an achilles heel in really long races but much like Sagan with his overall high stats and if in good form will allow him to go the distance but there is a weakness there imo. In fact note that Alaphilippe doesn't have low sta its 76 which is the normal for these type of riders to go the distance but there should be a possible weakness there
Edited by Tafiolmo on 29-04-2019 19:58
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 29-04-2019 19:58
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
Why give Alaphilippe such low Stamina? He won a 298km monument..
In PCM I've had Cavendish win a couple of MSR with just 73 or so sta and much like irl it's quite common for lower sta riders to do well in that race as in not finishing too far behind especially if the sun is shining. With the exception of once finishing 2nd at LBL Alaphilippe has struggled a bit in really hard sta races like Worlds 2018 and LBL 2019. He's kind of like Sagan in that he has an achilles heel in really long races but much like Sagan his stats if in good form will aloow him to go the distance but their is a weakness there imo
Hmm, I can understand that reasoning, but I think it's more of a too many races issue than a Stamina issue. In 2018 he came from a hard Tour where he had to fight daily for the mountain yersey, kept on going to win San Sebastian, on to GC wins in Britain and Slovenia, the WC was the race too much. Same this year, early top shape in Strade, still top shape in San Remo and then you saw him decline over the Ardennes with a total collapse in Liege. It wasn't a Stamina issue for me, as he wasn't looking good early on.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Vizbragz |
Posted on 29-04-2019 20:03
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Amateur
Posts: 17
Joined: 20-07-2018
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
Why give Alaphilippe such low Stamina? He won a 298km monument..
In PCM I've had Cavendish win a couple of MSR with just 73 or so sta and much like irl it's quite common for lower sta riders to do well in that race as in not finishing too far behind especially if the sun is shining. With the exception of once finishing 2nd at LBL Alaphilippe has struggled a bit in really hard sta races like Worlds 2018 and LBL 2019. He's kind of like Sagan in that he has an achilles heel in really long races but much like Sagan with his overall high stats and if in good form will allow him to go the distance but there is a weakness there imo
I agree with Tafiolmo, Alaphilippe's weakness is his END. You don't need a very high stat if you have a good team to protect you, the action starts at Cipressa/Poggio and energy's consumption isn't high before that. When the race is long and hard, Alaphilippe often shows his limits. In PCM, this rarely happens.
He's certainly the most explosive puncher right now, but this advantage also means he has a limited amount of shots compared to the climbers-punchers who can't follow him on his accelerations but can keep an higher pace longer.
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| purepasd |
Posted on 29-04-2019 20:58
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Domestique
Posts: 541
Joined: 23-01-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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You make it sound like Ala's END is bad, but 76 is quite nice. It's just, compared to Fuglsang, his END is a bit from Jakob's. So if you NEED to point at Ala's weak side, it must be that.
For Fuglsang 79 MO, 80 HI, 80 END, 78 RES plus his decent flat stat seems perfect. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 29-04-2019 22:43
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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At the moment we have agreed with these stats for Fuglsang:
78 mtn 81 hill 75 flat 79 sta 77 res. The main issue we had is that with these stats is he could prove too strong in GT's against other GT riders that have lower hill BUT his TT is not great and his rec has been lowered, until he does well in a GT. Hell this is one hard rider to stat!!! if you take all the different aspects into account
Edited by Tafiolmo on 30-04-2019 11:21
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 29-04-2019 23:11
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
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75 flat? I think its too high, imo 73 |
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