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Understanding rider attributes
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| Vizbragz |
Posted on 19-04-2019 21:39
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Amateur
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Thanks for your tests sobrano, this will be very useful to edit and understand the stats.
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| sobrano |
Posted on 19-04-2019 23:43
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
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Vizbragz wrote:
Thanks for your tests sobrano, this will be very useful to edit and understand the stats.
Yw!
One more:
I love this mon/hil based effort system because gameplay is good but this cause a strange behaviour: i tested a rider mon 85 and hil 55 on a 7% slope. With effort 85 the speed was 22km/h and with effort 99 the speed was 19km/h because hil was used. So more effort -- less speed...
With mon 85 and hil 65 is similar. On dot 99 the speed is just a little lower than dot 85. In both cases red bar wasnt burned up over 85 effort as should to be normally, so i suppose when we set dot 99 on a slope as mine of 7% with a rider with poor hil stat (65 as here for exemple) the real and effective effort apllied by the game is somewhere <85
Edited by sobrano on 20-04-2019 08:18
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| Tamijo |
Posted on 20-04-2019 08:26
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Team Leader
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sobrano wrote:
Vizbragz wrote:
Thanks for your tests sobrano, this will be very useful to edit and understand the stats.
Yw!
One more:
I love this mon/hil based effort system because gameplay is good but this cause a strange behaviour: i tested a rider mon 85 and hil 55 on a 7% slope. With effort 85 the speed was 22km/h and with effort 99 the speed was 19km/h because hil was used. So more effort -- less speed...
With mon 85 and hil 65 is similar. On dot 99 the speed is just a little lower than dot 85. In both cases red bar wasnt burned up over 85 effort as should to be normally, so i suppose when we set dot 99 on a slope as mine of 7% with a rider with poor hil stat (65 as here for exemple) the real and effective effort apllied by the game is somewhere <85
In theory a problem, but does it matter in the game ?
Anyway interestion read and very fine test that we can all learn from. Actually quite interesting and realistic that a rider burns bar slower if his skill are poor, considering that he also moves very slowly.
If you like to do another test, what speed a mon 85 and hil 55 gets when he attacks compared to dot 85.
Edited by Tamijo on 20-04-2019 08:32
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| sobrano |
Posted on 20-04-2019 11:07
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Posts: 279
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If you like to do another test, what speed a mon 85 and hil 55 gets when he attacks compared to dot 85.
I already did this test, I didnt aprreciate any differences between atk or dot 99 on a rider 85-65 on a slope. I think the max effort is capped by game or something like that and this cap depends by your combinated MON/HIL skills.
I think all these choices by cyanide have sense for gameplay even if they are not so realistic. I think it is a good compromise to play the game.
Btw i think is not so realistic if someone do a max effort without burn the bars, the speed is not matter...an effort is an effort. your fatigue should be affected by the effort even if your speed is 1km/h (this is my speed when I use my bike on real life eheheh, and if I do a max effort for 1 minute i have to stop my bike quickly...but in the game as actually a mon85 and hil 65 can do max effort over the time....)Btw as i suppose even if the player set the effort to 99 the real effort applied by the game is lower in the case mon85-hil65 and it should be something lower than 85. This is a cyanide way to propose a good gameplay.
In the past pcm editions when mon hil wasnt linked like today the speed was a function of effort, and the fatigue was a function of the effort everytime in all conditions by using dot or atk button, but sometimes the gameplay had several problems
Edited by sobrano on 20-04-2019 11:14
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| canute |
Posted on 20-04-2019 12:00
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Amateur
Posts: 6
Joined: 23-06-2013
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Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. Very much appreciated! One thing I am not sure about is Stamina. I have read this of course:
Stamina: Used to only effectriders after 170/180 km, but now effects from 0 km. Very little at first, but has a bigger and bigger impact the further your rider has "traveled"
But I am not sure what the actual effect on a rider in the game is. Could someone please explain if they know. Thanks! |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 20-04-2019 12:22
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canute wrote:
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. Very much appreciated! One thing I am not sure about is Stamina. I have read this of course:
Stamina: Used to only effectriders after 170/180 km, but now effects from 0 km. Very little at first, but has a bigger and bigger impact the further your rider has "traveled"
But I am not sure what the actual effect on a rider in the game is. Could someone please explain if they know. Thanks!
I tested it but it is not so easy to isolate the effect of stamina on stage. I mean it is sure that more stamina produce a reduced consumption of green bar from km0. Now what we should to understand is how green bar works... In the past pcm editions more green bar was equal to more speed per effort.
I think now it is exactly the same. But it seems that green bar effects can be appreciated only after lots of km ran (as all past pcm editions after all).
I didnt understand exactly if the "green bar effects activation" is turned ON by:
1. green bar lenght? (the green bar effects increase when green bar is low)
2. km ran? (after x km, it is not matter the green bar lenght, it start to do an effect)
3. stage? (maybe several stages have some multiplicator who active the green bar effects, as we can remember in the past edition where HIL and MON was ON or OFF depending by stage, in fact in some stages MON was ON and HIL OFF on others MON was OFF and HILL ON)
I will appreciate someone who can give more sure infos about this point
p.s. The stat MON and HIL should change name now as:
MON= CLIMB and HIL should be...mmh i dont know lol! but something as INTENSE CLIMB eheh
Edited by sobrano on 20-04-2019 12:59
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| canute |
Posted on 20-04-2019 13:29
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Amateur
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Thanks. So to really understand how Stamina affects a rider, we first need to know how the green bar affects everything else?
Until then, I suppose we can say that it's like not knowing how good your legs are until the race gets hard.  |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 05:20
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| sobrano |
Posted on 20-04-2019 17:25
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we first need to know how the green bar affects everything else?
green bar affect speed per effort.
To complete the understanding we should just knowing when the green bar effects starts. Actually we just know the effects starts for long stages at the ends or after lot of kms ran |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 22-04-2019 20:05
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hello guys I did a test and i know how green bar works.
I got 2 riders with all stats 65 with same form and same equipment in a flat stage (stage 12 of giro d'italia)
In the stage I selected 2 riders with same daily form in order to have two identical riders. I putted both riders behind the group to form a train.
the rider ahead with dot and effort 60 in order to burn only the green bar, the other rider followed the first by train.
after 150km ran i separated the two riders of 32" (both with dot 60 effort), the first rider had about half green bar left, the following rider almost full green bar.
after 160km nothing happened the gap was always 32"
after 170km again nothing happened the gap was always 32"
after 180km ran the rider with more green bar recovered some seconds up to a gap of 30"
after 190km the gap was 22"
after 200km the gap was 12"
after 208km the rider behind catched the rider ahead
so finally the green bar effect start to work from 170km ran and its effect seems to be more important after 180km and so on.
the effect is more speed per effort
n.b. I uses time gap to estimate a higher speed because at the begining the speed differece is a fraction of 1km/h and it can not be appreciated in the game looking at speed because the game shows just an integer value of the speed and it could appear as the same speed.
Two more words about resistence. It seem resistence affect the yellow bar as the ammount of energy in the yellow bar(as someone already says) so with high resistence the yellow bar is burned up completely later and is needed more time to full recharge it. For red bar is different. High resistence affect how fast the red bar is burned btw the recharge time seems to be the same. So high res is more dense yellow bar who burn at the same speed and high res is same red bar who burn slower
Edited by sobrano on 23-04-2019 08:10
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| canute |
Posted on 23-04-2019 08:49
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Amateur
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Wow - that's really helpful. Thank you for taking the time to find out. |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 30-05-2019 15:00
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
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hi folks,
I just want share with you the results of my last little test. If u read others tests I did you should to know that after 170km more green bar means a speed bonus who grow up with kms ran.
I did a test on a >200km stage and It seems sprint doesent matter this behaviour. I mean: the speed reached by a rider when sprinting as the red bar burning speed when sprinting is exactly the same for a rider with more green bar and a second with less green bar.
how we can use this infos?
if u are at the ends of a long stage u should prefer a rider with more green bar if the stage end is not a sprint,but if u are at the end flat part of a long stage and u are preparing a sprint, you should not consider the green bar.
I hope this will be usefull for someone  |
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| Angus Osborne |
Posted on 31-05-2019 04:09
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Under 23
Posts: 65
Joined: 09-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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It's really interesting information. Thank you |
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| Humlesnur |
Posted on 01-06-2019 20:29
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Posts: 107
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As for downhill I'm fairly sure that there is more to it than riders with high Downhill having more speed on descents less than -5%.
I tested a 20km downhill tt at ~-20% all the way.It had no bends, so just a straight road. All riders regardless of both TT and DO attributes finished within a few seconds, most within 1 second.
This suggests that DO has no effect on straight downhill seconds, at least not very steep ones. As such if it has any effect at all it would have to be speed through bends or speed on gradients bigger between -5% and -20% |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 01-06-2019 20:42
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
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Humlesnur wrote:
As for downhill I'm fairly sure that there is more to it than riders with high Downhill having more speed on descents less than -5%.
I tested a 20km downhill tt at ~-20% all the way.It had no bends, so just a straight road. All riders regardless of both TT and DO attributes finished within a few seconds, most within 1 second.
This suggests that DO has no effect on straight downhill seconds, at least not very steep ones. As such if it has any effect at all it would have to be speed through bends or speed on gradients bigger between -5% and -20%
it is interesting test, do you mean DO works as an ACC for downhill? what attributes had your riders? all same stats but DO and TT?
could u test it on not TT race? |
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| Humlesnur |
Posted on 01-06-2019 21:28
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it is interesting test, do you mean DO works as an ACC for downhill? what attributes had your riders? all same stats but DO and TT?
could u test it on not TT race?
What my test shows is that DO has no effect on steep straight dowbhill sections. I cannot see why it would be any different in a non tt stage, since the tt attribute clearly did not matter when all riders finished on the same time on a 20 km course.
As such I am saying that if DO has any effect it has to be speed through bends going downhill or only on moderately steep downhill sections.
This would be interesting to test. |
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