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Timing your sprint
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| diacos |
Posted on 27-07-2018 19:12
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Under 23
Posts: 56
Joined: 09-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Hi. I am having trouble regarding the moment i start sprinting. I am always making a train. My leadout starts sprinting with around 1.8-2.0 km left, while my sprinter starts sprinting with around 1.0-1.2 km left. When i am in front and the rivals are on my wheel, they always get past me in the final metres. When i am in their wheel, i can't seem to get past them. I tried leaving my train a little bit behind, and when i start sprinting i have like 5km/h more than the rivals, but am i am too far behind. Do you guys have any tips regarding the timing? I tried on extreme and hard difficulty. Thanks! |
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| Owlsome |
Posted on 27-07-2018 19:35
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Under 23
Posts: 51
Joined: 01-07-2013
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Your timing seems right. How are your sprint stats? Obviously better riders will be able to sprint better. Also the sprint stat of your lead-out is important, since this will decide how well your sprinter is set off. |
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| diacos |
Posted on 27-07-2018 19:40
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Under 23
Posts: 56
Joined: 09-08-2011
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I use Boasson Hagen as leadout and Cavendish as my sprinter. I played the last editions sporadically, and i decided to play a career this year. I am currently in TDF, with both having fitness peak and +4/+5 on the day. The problem is that i had this issue every year, but i hoped it was only due to not practicing enough. Now i tried sprinting using different methods in different scenarios without success. |
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| quadsas |
Posted on 27-07-2018 19:47
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Small Tour Specialist
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You need to have good flat riders, seems to matter much more this year for the train. I put the last one (next two being lead out and sprinter) on 99 dot with 4km to go so he stays at the front, and I start sprinting with a leadout a bit earlier, like 2.4km, so that he runs out of red bar around 1km when you can launch your main sprinter |
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| diacos |
Posted on 27-07-2018 19:53
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Under 23
Posts: 56
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Yeah, i saw that this year. My train is made of 5 riders, the first 3 good flat riders then Boasson Hagen and then Cavendish. I start pacing with my train with around 17 km left. I pace like 85 until 7km left, then i pace with my second flat rider at 92 until 4km left, then exactly like you 99 with my third rider and then as i said previously. I will try sprinting earlier with Boasson Hagen as you said, and i will post my results tomorrow. Thanks a lot to both of you ! |
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| quadsas |
Posted on 27-07-2018 20:09
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Small Tour Specialist
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diacos wrote:
Yeah, i saw that this year. My train is made of 5 riders, the first 3 good flat riders then Boasson Hagen and then Cavendish. I start pacing with my train with around 17 km left. I pace like 85 until 7km left, then i pace with my second flat rider at 92 until 4km left, then exactly like you 99 with my third rider and then as i said previously. I will try sprinting earlier with Boasson Hagen as you said, and i will post my results tomorrow. Thanks a lot to both of you !
you do wanna launch as early as possible. If hes in good shape try 1.4km |
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| CDrake |
Posted on 27-07-2018 21:19
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Junior Rider
Posts: 45
Joined: 15-07-2018
PCM$: 200.00
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Start your sprinter as soon as a quicker sprinter starts to move past him from behind. usually 0.5 or 0.6km for me. |
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| diacos |
Posted on 28-07-2018 15:38
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Under 23
Posts: 56
Joined: 09-08-2011
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Ok, so i have run some tests, doing something around 10 sprints using different methods. In my case, sprinting with your leadout with around 2.4 km left is way too early. You will get an advantage at first, but by time you want to sprint with the main sprinter, he has already lost an important part of the red bar. So for me, the best way to sprint with the leadout is starting with around 1.8-2 km left. Then it comes to the main sprinter. If the other sprinters are a little bit in front, it seems that sprinting with 1.2 km left works if you have almost a full red bar. Earlier than that and your sprinter will remain without red bar and his speed will decline dramatically. If the rivals are a little bit behind, you can wait by maintaining your speed behind the leadout, wait for the rivals to catch you, and then start sprinting even with 0.8 km to go. However, in most cases, all the sprinters will be pretty close to each other. This time, it depends heavily on the red bar. The point is to always get to the finish line with little to no red bar left, but if you sprint even 0.2 km without red bard, you are done. So my guess is that 1.0 is kind of the right spot. Thanks to you all for the replies ! |
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| Jord Vorenholt |
Posted on 09-08-2018 22:48
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Junior Rider
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Joined: 30-07-2018
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So, did you get more wins? |
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| diacos |
Posted on 11-08-2018 11:15
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Under 23
Posts: 56
Joined: 09-08-2011
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Yeah, definitely. Using what i said after tests. |
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 11-08-2018 14:00
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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remember the wind speed/direction and the slope have a big effect
if its uphill sprint later
if its downhill sprint earlier
same with tailwind or headwind
if its a 2% downhill slope you can usually sprint much earlier
and also because the difference in speed between a good and bad sprinter is so small in a downhill sprint its more about already being ahead when the others start sprinting |
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| Tiesj Benoot |
Posted on 30-08-2018 08:09
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Amateur
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In my experience this is true not only for downhill sprints. You can only win sprints from far behind when you have a 80+ guy with good form in a smaller race against ~77 guys.
In a GT or similar you will have to be in a top spot to win. My strategy is this:
- Build a train of 4 at somewhere under 20km to go, let's say 17. An ideal train in my case is Campenaerts, van der Sande, Hofland, Greipel. All follow each other with Campenaerts on dot at ~80. This will usually take him to the front. Sometimes more effort is needed sometimes less.
- When the train arrives at the tête de la course he will increase to 85 until about 5-7km to go. Increase again to 90-99 and watch for other trains.
- At 3,5-4km von der Sande will take over with dot 99.
- At some point the attack icon changes to S. From here on you have to watch your opponents closely. If nobody overtakes, keep going, if somebody comes, start sprinting.
- At ~1,5km Hofland will start sprintig.
- At 1,0km or even 0,9 Greipel will start. If the other sprinters start way earlier, you have to react. But never sprint before 1,5km unless its downhill. |
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| zachbastian |
Posted on 07-09-2018 11:08
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Free Agent
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Hey! I form my train as late as possible, depending on the pace of the peleton. When you form your train, you wont be able to protect the riders any more. And with 20 km to the finishingline the pace is really high, so your sprinter and his lead-out gain an advantage if they can stay proteted as long as possible. I have a custom team. with M. Valgren, D. Bennati and S. Bennett as my favorite last 3 riders. I have all 3 of them protected. At around 20-25 km left to the line, I use the dot on the 3 riders to get them up and between the first 15-20 riders in the peleton. Then I stay there still using the dot (group your 3 riders, so you can control all 3 as 1). Be ready to increase /decrease your effort, so you won´t drop back or move to much to the front. The battle for positions!! I stay there (still protected) till around the 5,5-6 km mark. where I form the "train". Then I let M. Valgren ride 90-95 (if neessarry) till 4 km mark, and then 99 to the 2,5-2,8 km mark. At the 2,5-2,8 km mark, D. Bennati is ready is his wheel to take over at dot 99. At the 1,7-1,8 km mark D. Bennati starts his sprint having S. Bennett behind him. At around the 1 km mark S. Bennett is ready to do his thing. I think it is important to stick to your plan. In my case, I have to! Forming my "train" this late, gives me no time for second thoughts!! |
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| Humlesnur |
Posted on 17-09-2018 23:55
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I would argue that taking a more patient approach with your main sprinter is the way to go, although there is no one fits all approach to sprinting. The incline, wind and bends all factor into when to start sprinting and how to form your train.
I usually start my sprint very late (around 0.5 km left). I have had great success with a 76 sprint 83 acc rider (be a pro climber/sprinter) even against the best sprinters on flat stages. Sprinters with the same acc but 4-5 higher sprint.
I form a train with at 5-6 riders so that when I arrive at 3km I still have four riders left and can start sprinting with the first rider. When he runs out of red bar I start sprinting with the 3rd rider who should be decent at sprinting (around 5 points less than the best sprinters). Then my leadout will start sprinting when the big sprinters start at around 1.2-0.8 km to go and in the last 400-500m meters my main sprinter should still preserve som red bar to accelerate and overtake the rest despite his lower sprint stat.
The idea behind this tactic is that all riders will not be at full red bar when the sprint usually begins with around 1km to go because the pace has been so high with two riders already sprinting from the 3km mark. As such most riders will be out of red bar with 400-500m left, which allows for your sprinter to make a late push and snatch the win.
In my experience this is true not only for downhill sprints. You can only win sprints from far behind when you have a 80+ guy with good form in a smaller race against ~77 guys.
It's definetely possible to win withouth being at the very front, since you won't use up the red bar as fast if you're further down. The first rider to sprint almost never wins in my experience. The trick is to get onto the right wheel. Often slightly lower rated sprinters like Matthews or Laporte are further back and ideal to be at the wheel of as your rider will better preserve his red bar when following them, since they have lower acc and sprint. Basically you use the sprint train of a slightly lower rated sprinter and use him as your leadout man.
Sprinters further back will usually start their sprint later and then in the final hundred meters you can again accelerate past everybody as they will be out of red bar. I have used this approach with fairly good resulst when I haven't had a sprint train myself. |
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