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First impressions of PCM18
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-12-2024 12:15
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 02-07-2018 12:47
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World Champion
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trekbmc wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
There was always a great wave of optimism afte the release, even talks about great AI improvements, so one is being sceptical these days. 
So am I, still, this year seems so much better than the last at the very least. 
That is something i believe, as PCM17 was total crap (i received it as a gift and played roughly 10-20 hours of it, much less than any other edition).
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 02-07-2018 13:27
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
trekbmc wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
There was always a great wave of optimism afte the release, even talks about great AI improvements, so one is being sceptical these days.
So am I, still, this year seems so much better than the last at the very least.
That is something i believe, as PCM17 was total crap (i received it as a gift and played roughly 10-20 hours of it, much less than any other edition).
I remember that. You got it as a present from your wife.
I actually liked PCM 17 the most, not sure why. Only played it 212h, compared to 335h of 2016 or 591h of 2015, but thats due to my overall lack of time.
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| SotD |
Posted on 02-07-2018 13:32
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World Champion
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Joined: 29-11-2006
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Okay so here I go...
It has been quite some time since I last purchased a PCM version, and really played it.
I have found momentary joy from the game, but ever so often felt that I kept on restarting games because I couldn't really relate to things, and didn't really feel like there was any sort of progress after moving from season 2 or so.
I don't really feel like playing as all riders within the team, as I really think it counteracts with the fact that this is a managergame. In Football Manager I don't control the player, but I tell them what to do, and they do their best to replicate it, within their capacities. Here I feel like PCM have failed in numerous versions (well all to be honest). I can tell my riders to do whatever I want, but in the end it's up to me to cover all riders during a race, and to keep them as fit as possible. In any other management game, you would tell certain riders to keep an eye out for the leader, and then they would try to do that - but not necessarily in exactly the way you had intended.
So what I'm really asking is. Has PCM 18 changed, so that it is actually playable - and enjoyable - as a managergame, or is it still the same pseudobullshit, where you are in control of everyone, both managementwise and rider/trainer wise?
Also, have the Be a Pro (Or whatever it's called) changed to become more dynamic? In the past it was possible to select a different amount of ages and talents, but if you decided to be a climber to have a base, you could train him as crazy as you wished as a cobbler, he still wouldn't become very balanced. I have struggled to create a rider that can actually ride a top 10 GC, while also be competitive in sprints or cobbles. (Create a Tiesj Benoot or Philippe Gilbert type of rider).
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| stu-sgn |
Posted on 02-07-2018 14:58
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Junior Rider
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It seems like the feedback has been mostly positive for the mountain AI. Any feedback for how the AI performs in classics? |
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| TiemenD |
Posted on 02-07-2018 15:19
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Stagiare
Posts: 239
Joined: 06-01-2008
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stu-sgn wrote:
It seems like the feedback has been mostly positive for the mountain AI. Any feedback for how the AI performs in classics?
AI in single day races is also a lot better.
Sometimes I could play a semi-classic like the strade bianche and the AI would be very passive, and the breakaway would win it.
This is not happening anymore, I feel there's been a decent update as well to the classics AI. |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 02-07-2018 15:41
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World Champion
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Joined: 29-10-2007
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SotD wrote:
Also, have the Be a Pro (Or whatever it's called) changed to become more dynamic? In the past it was possible to select a different amount of ages and talents, but if you decided to be a climber to have a base, you could train him as crazy as you wished as a cobbler, he still wouldn't become very balanced. I have struggled to create a rider that can actually ride a top 10 GC, while also be competitive in sprints or cobbles. (Create a Tiesj Benoot or Philippe Gilbert type of rider).
There's a secondary specialisation you can freely pick now, which means any kind of combination is possible. I just tried a cobbles + climber combination for pot 7, that gave me stat limits of 85 for COB and 78 for all of MO, HIL, TT and SP. The other way around "only" gave 85 MO, 81 HIL and 73 COB.
Whether you'll end up having enough level-ups to reach that is obviously another thing.
In case you don't want to check with an editor, the game gives you a range for your stat limits right on your rider page, so you know them within a 4-point window.
Another new feature is that you can see the effects of a level-up right before applying it, so you can exactly pick the training focus that gives you the best upgrade for each level and maximize the gain. They seem rather well-rounded, although the initial choice of specialisation appears to still have an effect even if you choose a category that has nothing to do with it. For example, TT training for a stage racer may give +3TT, while baroudeur training may only give +1 FL for the same level-up, but still +2TT.
This may suggest that changing your rider type mid-career à la Jalabert might still be hindered by the stat increase system. There seems to be a certain base spread that applies to all categories for a particular level.
There's also a second page to that screen which shows potential long-term changes, it claims that you can influence stat limits by selecting a certain category when you hit one. I haven't yet found out whether it actually changes the limit in the save game, I haven't hit any of them yet. It surely doesn't change it simply by selecting such a category on the first level-up.
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| undertaker |
Posted on 02-07-2018 17:13
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Under 23
Posts: 80
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can he finally do attacks on mountains like older PCM's? or the rider still stay at the same place when attacks?  |
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| ruben |
Posted on 02-07-2018 17:25
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
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Oh no that has been fixed a few versions ago. If you attack on a mountain you accelerate away much better than people riding 85 pace.
Only if you have a shitty climber you might not get away. But that's normal.
The Pro cyclist thing is way more dynamic. IF you level up you can also chose to level up your potential in some areas. So you can even create a Sagan like allrounder, or a nibali one with mo, TT, cobbles, hills...
The question remains if you can actually hit those limits though, I think that's a tough one. I'm trying to build a gilbert (hil + cob + sprint), and I find it pretty hard already |
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 02-07-2018 17:51
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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its because the closer you are to the stat limit the smaller chance of getting an increase in the stat
if you are 70mo and the mo limit is 72 you might not get anything
but if you are 70mo and the mo limit is 85 you might even get +4
so its really hard to get to a limit
and getting to all the limits is impossible with the cap at level 26
about the 2nd screen to increase potential what it does is the same as the second specialization you choose at first
it increases the potential of that specializations key stats by a few points from +4 to +7 depending |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 02-07-2018 18:11
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
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Thatguyeveryonehates wrote:
about the 2nd screen to increase potential what it does is the same as the second specialization you choose at first
it increases the potential of that specializations key stats by a few points from +4 to +7 depending
Does it do that instantly as a save game change the first time you select that category, or does it only matter when I already hit the stat limit, meaning that category becomes my only option to develop said stat further?
Since those bonuses can't possibly stack by picking each once to get all the increases.
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 02-07-2018 18:28
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
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i dont understand your question
can you give me an example? |
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| kioMsU |
Posted on 02-07-2018 18:46
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Under 23
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One thing that bothers me is Time Trial. When I'm riding in TDF and stage is flat TT GC guys with very weak TT stats like Bardet are too good. For example - on 35km stage Bardet lost only 30seconds to Froome, Quintana 20sec. |
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| hubo50 |
Posted on 02-07-2018 19:17
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Amateur
Posts: 2
Joined: 12-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Havent played this game for a while, and wanted to try pcm 18 again for fun.
I was just wondering if its normal that its impossible to keep ur riders heart rate normal on the cobbles.
ive been putting the effort on 5 , but on the cobbles it would still go to 180 +
Also trying to give some team mates a '' rest '' during mountains doesnt always work when u put them on +- 30 effort, heart rate still goes up sometimes, dont think i experienced this in other pcms.
And AI seems a bit off, when u reduce the peloton to 5 a 6 riders, and some high qualified riders arent there, the rest of the group just wont take pulls, even if they could be able to win places, or gain alot of time.. |
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| hubo50 |
Posted on 02-07-2018 19:17
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Amateur
Posts: 2
Joined: 12-10-2007
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Havent played this game for a while, and wanted to try pcm 18 again for fun.
I was just wondering if its normal that its impossible to keep ur riders heart rate normal on the cobbles.
ive been putting the effort on 5 , but on the cobbles it would still go to 180 +
Also trying to give some team mates a '' rest '' during mountains doesnt always work when u put them on +- 30 effort, heart rate still goes up sometimes, dont think i experienced this in other pcms.
And AI seems a bit off, when u reduce the peloton to 5 a 6 riders, and some high qualified riders arent there, the rest of the group just wont take pulls, even if they could be able to win places, or gain alot of time.. |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 02-07-2018 20:31
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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hubo50 wrote:
Havent played this game for a while, and wanted to try pcm 18 again for fun.
I was just wondering if its normal that its impossible to keep ur riders heart rate normal on the cobbles.
ive been putting the effort on 5 , but on the cobbles it would still go to 180 +
Also trying to give some team mates a '' rest '' during mountains doesnt always work when u put them on +- 30 effort, heart rate still goes up sometimes, dont think i experienced this in other pcms.
Has been the same in PCM17, where I first noticed it and assumed it was some sort of a bug at first.
Turns out, this is Cyanide logic, with the reasoning being that there are terrains on which a cyclist simply cannot physically recuperate: very steep inclines and cobblestones.
Basically, they assume there's no "easy" way to get up a 15% ramp or over cobbles, and there always has to be extra effort by the rider even if going slow.
There are even situations where 60 effort gives a lower heart rate than <40, with the logic being that going a steady pace is easier on the body than having to swerve all over the road because the incline doesn't support riding in a straight line on low speed, or that going slow over cobblestones makes the ride disproportionally much bumpier.
Now, this logic might be reasonably realistic in certain situations, but I share your opinion that it's annoying.
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| cio93 |
Posted on 02-07-2018 20:40
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
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Simple:
I have a stage racer with secondary focus on puncheur. His cobbles stat limit is 66.
Training one level with the cobbles specialisation is said to improve his stat limit by 4 points to 70.
There are two ways that this could work.
1) I select cobbles for a random level-up during my rider's career while his cobble stat is somewhere below 66 (and staying below 66 after this level-up), and his potential will permanently rise to 70, even if I select different categories for the rest of his career after and just get additional points on COB as a side-effect from other categories.
2) To get this boost, I have to select cobbles for a level-up while my rider already has reached 66.
The way the stat limit boost appears to not carry over on the menu page suggests to me that I need to have already maxed my rider out in that particular stat for this to have any effect, and as I said, 1) would allow for too allround riders over time.
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 02-07-2018 20:58
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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its 1 thats how it works
and i suggest you take the potential increases as early as possible in your career because you get higher increases with a bigger gap between your current stat and the stat limit
but you wont get a too allround rider because there are few levels until 26
you cant make a jalabert or a bartoli starting at level 10
you need to start at like level 1 or smth for that
Edited by Thatguyeveryonehates on 02-07-2018 21:00
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| cio93 |
Posted on 02-07-2018 20:59
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
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Thatguyeveryonehates wrote:
its 1
thats how it works
but you wont get a too allround rider because there are few levels until 26
you cant make a jalabert or a bartoli
Source? I just simulated a random Be A Pro to his first level-up, and didn't see the change in the cdb afterwards.
Also I had done something similar with my serious save game, and after additional level-ups, the COB potential displayed in the menu is back to its original range.
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| ruben |
Posted on 02-07-2018 21:09
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
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the result is noticably if I invest a level in potential. I was a hilly rider/puncehur, invested 1 level in sprint, and instead of 71 being my sprint limit its now between 71-76. And I'm already past 71.
So clearly the CDB defined limit in the beginning was surpassed by upping potential |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 02-07-2018 21:15
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
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ruben wrote:
the result is noticably if I invest a level in potential. I was a hilly rider/puncehur, invested 1 level in sprint, and instead of 71 being my sprint limit its now between 71-76. And I'm already past 71.
So clearly the CDB defined limit in the beginning was surpassed by upping potential
I don't question that. They're clearly not hard-coded anymore. But did you get past the limit through a sprint level-up, or as a byproduct of another level-up?
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