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Winter Sport 2017/2018
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 19-02-2018 18:25
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2933
Joined: 09-05-2011
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I'M NOT AN RUSSIAN, I'm from Bulgaria - educate yourself please. You start to annoy me. LEAVE ME ALONE, OK!
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 19-02-2018 18:30
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
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Forever the Best wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Oh no, a Russian trying to censor an opinion, how quaint.
Look, its a difference of opinions. Let's not get weird about it. It's a perfectly valid point to say that a country that has been proven to have cheated to be banned or punished.
As for clean Russians, yeah it's a shame for them. But at some point you have to say enough is enough. What do you want, all countries to be allowed to run doping systems and only the athletes who get caught get banned. The rest can carry on as if nothing has happened? These 'clean' athletes are still the product of a cheat system. Why are Sundby and Lapshin racing here?
Don't care. Don't know who Sundby and Lapshin are. Don't care who they are.
My point is Russia have cheated, Russia are banned and so Russian athletes shouldn't be allowed to compete under the name of Russia. I don't care why a is allowed to compete and b isn't. In about 5 days I won't watch any form of winter sport for another 4 years.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 19-02-2018 18:35
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
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ringo182 wrote:
Forever the Best wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Oh no, a Russian trying to censor an opinion, how quaint.
Look, its a difference of opinions. Let's not get weird about it. It's a perfectly valid point to say that a country that has been proven to have cheated to be banned or punished.
As for clean Russians, yeah it's a shame for them. But at some point you have to say enough is enough. What do you want, all countries to be allowed to run doping systems and only the athletes who get caught get banned. The rest can carry on as if nothing has happened? These 'clean' athletes are still the product of a cheat system. Why are Sundby and Lapshin racing here?
Don't care. Don't know who Sundby and Lapshin are. Don't care who they are.
My point is Russia have cheated, Russia are banned and so Russian athletes shouldn't be allowed to compete under the name of Russia. I don't care why a is allowed to compete and b isn't. In about 5 days I won't watch any form of winter sport for another 4 years. So why are you commenting like everything is fair in this situation?
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan'
Gracias Alberto.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 19-02-2018 18:43
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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Forever the Best wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Forever the Best wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Oh no, a Russian trying to censor an opinion, how quaint.
Look, its a difference of opinions. Let's not get weird about it. It's a perfectly valid point to say that a country that has been proven to have cheated to be banned or punished.
As for clean Russians, yeah it's a shame for them. But at some point you have to say enough is enough. What do you want, all countries to be allowed to run doping systems and only the athletes who get caught get banned. The rest can carry on as if nothing has happened? These 'clean' athletes are still the product of a cheat system. Why are Sundby and Lapshin racing here?
Don't care. Don't know who Sundby and Lapshin are. Don't care who they are.
My point is Russia have cheated, Russia are banned and so Russian athletes shouldn't be allowed to compete under the name of Russia. I don't care why a is allowed to compete and b isn't. In about 5 days I won't watch any form of winter sport for another 4 years. So why are you commenting like everything is fair in this situation?
I'm not. I'm saying Russia are banned and so Russian athletes shouldn't be allowed to compete under the name of Russia. You don't need an in depth knowledge of a particular sport to be able to form the opinion that it isn't right to allow a banned country to send athletes to compete under its name and for said banned country to appear on the medal table along side the non-state sponsored dopers.
I'm saying it's very unfair that Russia have been treated so leniently.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Bikex |
Posted on 19-02-2018 18:43
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Team Leader
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ringo182 wrote:
The only mockery is that Russian athletes are allowed to compete at all given that their governing body has been proven to be cheating for decades. In what other sport would a team/individual/country that has been proven to have been cheating for decades be allowed to compete?
English football teams were banned completely from European football club competitions for years during the 80's because of the behaviour of fans, not the teams or the English FA. Yet Russia as a country cheats for decades and is still allowed to send athletes. I can't believe you are trying to defend Russia and make out Russia has been hard done by by the IOC. They have been treated incredibly leniently to be allowed to send athletes at all.
And I can't believe you think it is fair to ban athletes that have not returned a positive doping test in their life just for their nationality. When it is about a British athlete like for example Froome you always demand a fair trial. Why do you throw your sense of justice over board when it's not about a British?
The example with the English teams doesn't fit at all. In football teams have always been responsible for their fans, individual athletes are not responsible for the country they happen to be from.
I have to admit I do not possess enough knowledge to judge if the punishment for the Russian sports associations has been fair, although I do have my doubts. I do not know what has been proven and what not but afaik much of the evidence is based on oral testimonies of individuals that left Russia in disgrace after being fired for breaking the law or tested positive (and not because they thought it would morally be the right thing).
Also about Sochi: To me it seems the hosting nation of Olympics always gets some benefits regarding doping controls. There were reports of Brazilian athletes virtually not being tested at all during the build up to the Rio Olympics. The same again this year with Koreans.
Anyhow my point is not that Russia shouldn't be punished, but for individuals to not suffer from collective punishments. In any court that follows democratic principles of law there exist no collective punishments. I find it hard to believe you seem to accept them as fair. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 19-02-2018 18:53
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Classics Specialist
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Of course it's fair. If a company has acted illegally the company will be punished, thus affecting many innocent employees. The leaders of the company are responsible for their employees and it is their fault if the employees lose out.
Same here. The Russian government/Olympic Committee has acted illegally. Blame them for the innocent Russian athletes. Its not the IOCs fault they chose to cheat for decades and have been caught.
As for Froome, my argument has been there is no evidence. If there is evidence, as it looks now, he should be banned like everyone else. You're only innocent until proven guilty. Once found guilty, like Russia and probably Froome, you need to accept your punishment and stop pretending you've been hard done by.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-02-2018 18:53
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
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Bikex wrote:
Anyhow my point is not that Russia shouldn't be punished, but for individuals to not suffer from collective punishments. In any court that follows democratic principles of law there exist no collective punishments. I find it hard to believe you seem to accept them as fair.
Actually you can charge multiple people for the same offence, and only require proof to convict one and get the same verdict for them all.
However it's a complicated process and only works in rather specific circumstances. And is usually torn apart on appeal.
And in sport there are examples of collective punishment. Even in cycling. Like ASO not inviting Astana in 2008 following it's links and issues from 2007, even though that did not involve every rider and staff member. That was a punishment applied to a whole team, when not every staff member had done something wrong.
ASO not inviting to protect the integrity of the Tour from a potentially doped team. Similar to the IOC banning Russia to protect the integrity of the Olympics....
Not a perfect comparision i'm aware, but the action of the IOC is not new. The difference is the scale of the ban, and that it's at the highest level of sport.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 10:14
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-02-2018 19:02
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Tour de France Champion
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But could we not talk about the history making two-man bobsleigh result? Or the ice skating boob? Or the Hungarian skiier who couldn't get air in the half pipe? Or the really close womens curling table?
This doping situation with Russia will roll on for years yet, we've got plenty of time to discuss it when there isn't brilliant sport to consider!
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 19-02-2018 20:35
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World Champion
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I'm amazed how it took 6 days after the first positive test from the olympics for this talk to show up 
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-02-2018 09:23
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World Champion
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Die hard SKY fan talking about doping, bans and collective punishments.....excuse me for a moment:
HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Okay, go on.
For Manx: the figure skating boobs were not good enough to be talked about 
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 20-02-2018 10:30
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Die hard SKY fan talking about doping, bans and collective punishments.....excuse me for a moment:
HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Okay, go on.
For Manx: the figure skating boobs were not good enough to be talked about
No, my point about Sky is that previously it's all been rumour, speculation and no evidence. Now there is evidence and we will see what happens going forward. If Froome deserves to be banned he will be banned and Sky will get the relevant sanctions.
Russia have already been found guilty and banned. Yet they are still allowed to send athletes to compete under their name.
There is a major difference.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 20-02-2018 10:48
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Tour de France Champion
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I'd rather talk boobs than doping any day of the week
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 20-02-2018 13:02
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World Champion
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wasn't there a potential story about Ledecka possibly being the first olympic athlete to win medals at different events at the same olympics? or is that about gold on both?
long story short, the womens shorttrack final was amazing and bronze went to a team that wasn't even in the final
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| Raziz |
Posted on 24-02-2018 07:17
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Domestique
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Niskanen is a god! |
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| viking90 |
Posted on 24-02-2018 07:25
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Completly destroyed Them he showed it already at the Skiathlon two weeks ago that he clearly is the best in Classic style.
Rickardsson going good late in the race and going from 21st to 7th in the last part of the race but or course a lifetime after Niskanen.
Will be fun to see how the womens 30 kms will be races tomorrow, Björgen favorite?
Btw way, saw Ledecka won another Gold. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 24-02-2018 08:30
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
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Yay, she did it!
First athlete in 90 years and first woman ever to win in two different disciplines at same winter games. And in what a fashion, showing she has no competition in giant parallel slalom. Incredible, congrats Ester!
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 24-02-2018 09:00
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World Champion
Posts: 11971
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typical, a dutch women wins two medals in two different disciplines at the same games and it immediatly get's overshadowed by someone else winning two gold medals in two different disciplines
grats to ledecka though
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| viking90 |
Posted on 25-02-2018 07:23
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Well looks like Björgen destroyed the opponents early.
But ohh gosh,  Stadlober turned right when she was supposed the go straight forward when she was 2nd and lost over one minute and around 5 places and there by any chance of medals... 
Lets go Stina Nilsson now! |
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| tomcat9 |
Posted on 28-01-2019 20:58
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And now all reasonable people are starting to understand: those history with olympic ban was only political and nothing more. But men of Olympic Committee achieved what they wanted: they did not allow Russian athletes to play and then returned all the achievements - because they had no evidence of doping by the Russians. Bravo, Russian haters rejoice! |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 03-02-2022 11:24
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Tour de France Champion
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Don't imagine we'll have enough interest to warrant creating a whole new thread so here were are
Beijing 2022 kicks off tomorrow, and of course early quali rounds are already underway. Enjoyed watching the first runs in the Moguls this morning, and as someone with a f*cked up knee i have huge respect for this event
I'm super pumped for all the Board & Ski-cross events, my personal favourites. I'll be glued to the Freestyle Ski & Board events, especially in the halfpipe rooting for Shaun White to do the frankly impossible.
As a Brit i have to watch the Sliding events as it's our historical best events. And i like Alpine skiing even if GB has basically no chances (Dave Riding ain't getting another fluke slalom result).
I was excited about Hockey when the NHL players were allowed to compete, but since that went away i basically lost interest. I'll keep an eye on it just in case of a shock.
Anyway, despite the ICO yet again chasing money, the obvious moral bankruptcy of the sponsors, and the general dodgyness that is current China, i'm going to try and enjoy some fun winter sports.
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
