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How stats works
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| sobrano |
Posted on 18-07-2017 07:30
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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hello.
can someone try to explain how each stat exactly works pls?
Compello wrote:
This year (2016), the system has changed completely, and the stat that is used is now instead determined by the effort (DOT) your cyclist is riding on.
70% effort or lower on a climb means that purely the mountain stat is used.
90% effort or higher on a climb means that purely the hill stat is used.
70-90 effort is a mix between the two, depending on which end of the scale you are closest to.
after the last patch it seems Hil stat is purely used from 96% effort?
and what about the other stats?
Endu is always affected by the stage length?
Fighter is always a stat for AI riders?
ACC is an Acceleration since 2014 I hope it is still working as that
RES: high RES make the yellow bar consumption slower?
ty |
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 18-07-2017 08:21
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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pcm16:
effort 0%-70%
mountain stat
effort 71%-89%
mountain stat+ hill stat. higher = more hill stat. so 71% is almost only mountain stat, 80% is half mountain half hill, 89% is almost only hill stat
effort 90%-99%
hill stat
pcm17:
same thing but hill starts at 85% not 71% and its all hill only at 99%
pcm17 after patches:
hill starts at 85% and its all hill from 96% to 99%
endurance:
no relation to stage length anymore says cyanide on the official forum
now its just how "big" the green bar is
so it affects recovery from stage to stage more than anything else
fighter, acc, res
as you say |
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| Lamba |
Posted on 18-07-2017 11:28
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Stagiare
Posts: 150
Joined: 15-07-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Sooo... The Hill stat is pretty much irrelevant now? |
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 18-07-2017 18:07
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Lamba wrote:
Sooo... The Hill stat is pretty much irrelevant now?
no its important
its uphill sprinting
im doing a pro cyclist career with a guy with great hill and crap mountain
i can get great results in climbing stages as long as its not a major mountain stage
sustained climbing lots of climbs one after the other or a climb of 20km is what my guy cant handle
seems perfect to me |
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| Teddy The Creator |
Posted on 18-07-2017 18:19
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2253
Joined: 19-10-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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I just completed a stage in one of those early Spanish races, Vuelta a Andalucia or something, and it was quite hilly with a steep but short climb near the end.
Used Gerrans (69 MO 77 HI 79ACC I think) and got away alone on the last climb by dotting to the front on 90 and then attacking.. he sped ahead of the slow climbers, then dotted a little more, was nearly out of energy, then dotted 85 or so downhill, and I was home..perfect attack from a puncher, very realistic..
People need to give this new system a chance, it sounds weird when you first read it but once you experiment a bit and change tactics it has some potential. Not saying it's perfect but constant abuse from people who haven't even tried it is pretty pointless.
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| sobrano |
Posted on 18-07-2017 18:38
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I did several tests on stats:
END as someone already says is changed. END affect the green bar consumption as RES does for yellow bar.
RES: during my test i noticed that RES affect RED bar too, that means RES is an important value for sprints...
RES continue to affect the yellow bar as from 10 years
ACC: is a real acceleration as from four pcm editions. it not change so much between an ACC 84 and an ACC 65. I think this value is usefull only during a sprint.
Green BAR: it goes down based on bpm. In old editions the green bar starts to be burned from 144bpm. Now it burn for every bpm (more quickly as the bpm increase)
Yellow Bar: it start to be burned at 140bpm
Red Bar: it come down from 178bpm
If Yellow bar is empty then RedBar go down very fast as ur bmp are more than 140
Blue Bar: it seems to be a function of yellow bar, its behaviour is always the same...(maybe needed more tests)
Edited by sobrano on 18-07-2017 18:47
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| bah |
Posted on 18-07-2017 18:56
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Under 23
Posts: 70
Joined: 16-07-2017
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sobrano wrote:
RES: during my test i noticed that RES affect RED bar too, that means RES is an important value for sprints...
Not so much important for sprints because in one patch they made the red bar empty slower
in pro mode im sprinting at 1.2km with 64 RES and i finish with a lot of red still
Edited by bah on 18-07-2017 19:30
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| sierramike |
Posted on 18-07-2017 21:37
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Under 23
Posts: 69
Joined: 19-07-2011
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nice to test things out.
sobrano wrote:
I did several tests on stats:
RES: during my test i noticed that RES affect RED bar too, that means RES is an important value for sprints...
I think it's indirect,not direct effect.When your green & yellow bars are lower you can sprint less (red drains faster),so res,less yellow,less long sprint.Just my observation.
res was announced that's it wasn't yellow bar drain anymore,but regeneration of yellow.but 2 editions later the blue in yellow came,so probably changed again?
acc : try attacking with an acc55 rider,he looks like a fool & can't get away.
bpm: it think there's a value that doesn't consume green (as before).It's just lower bpm now. |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 18-07-2017 22:26
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
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I think it's indirect,not direct effect.When your green & yellow bars are lower you can sprint less (red drains faster),so res,less yellow,less long sprint.Just my observation.
res was announced that's it wasn't yellow bar drain anymore,but regeneration of yellow.but 2 editions later the blue in yellow came,so probably changed again?
acc : try attacking with an acc55 rider,he looks like a fool & can't get away.
bpm: it think there's a value that doesn't consume green (as before).It's just lower bpm now.
i will look it better btw my test was not bad. I used 8 cyclist with all 65 stats except res. 4 of them with 85 res and 4 of them with 65 res.
I started a flat stage by using the dot for everyone and 1 effort in order to left the group ahead and have my riders alone at the starting line.
To test the res i got 2 riders by 2(one with 85 and one with 65 res) and i keep a distance between them of 20 seconds by using the dot at the same effort in order to avoid any wind protection effects
in the first test i set an effort of 80 on both riders in order to dont reach 178bpm and use purely the yellow bar.
for all the 4 couple of riders the 85 res saved more yellow bar.
I did the same test by using dot 88 effort in order to burn the red bar.
the results was for all the 4 couple the 85 res saved more red bar by having the yellow bar not empty.
i will very appreciate anyone wants do a similar test in order to confirm or not my observation ( i dont speak a test based on sensations during a carrer, but a real and reliable test)
what is interesting in ur suggestion is to test the yellow and red bar recovery rate and see if it is affected by stats. I will do that test soon, btw i tested this several times in the old pcm edition and the recovery rate was always a constant.
ty
Edited by sobrano on 18-07-2017 22:32
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| jakobbe |
Posted on 19-07-2017 07:33
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Under 23
Posts: 87
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So if you are Froome it is better with 84 effort than 85 or what ? |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 19-07-2017 07:46
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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jakobbe wrote:
So if you are Froome it is better with 84 effort than 85 or what ?
i dont understand...what do u mean? it depends by the situation...
u just should to take in mind that when u reach 178 bpm u start to burn ur red bar, and if ur Froome have a good RES its red and yellow bar will last longer that s all.
p.s. I tested the bars recovery rate and as in all old PCM editions the bar recovery rates are not affected by stats
A RES = 85 has the same recovery rate on yellow and red bar as a RES = 55 |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 19-07-2017 07:49
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
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In order to continue my test i should create a stage with a long climb (20 km or so) with a fixed slope (4%, 5%, 6%...)
is there a fast way to create a climb like that?
i want to test MON/HIL/DO...
ty
Edited by sobrano on 19-07-2017 08:34
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| jakobbe |
Posted on 19-07-2017 08:17
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Under 23
Posts: 87
Joined: 31-05-2014
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After the patch hilly stats works from 85, so will that mean that if you for example are froome or another rider who have better mountain stats than hilly stats, that it will be better to use 84 than 85, so the rider only use his mountain stats who is
better than his hilly stats on mountains ? |
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| Lamba |
Posted on 19-07-2017 08:38
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Stagiare
Posts: 150
Joined: 15-07-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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I played some multi player mountain stages last night and choose Nibali. While the guys riding Froome, Quintana, Contador, Bardet, etc. attacked right and left, I just kept a steady pace and actually ended up going toe to toe with Froome in the end. Nibali isn't an attacker in PCM (imo) and I chose to play to my strengths and beat all but Froome handidly. We finished same time, but I won due to having taken 3 straight stage wins with my conservative riding while he had blasted ahead on the first mountain stage and two TT's.
So I think you're right about that, yes, Jakobbe. |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 19-07-2017 08:40
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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jakobbe wrote:
After the patch hilly stats works from 85, so will that mean that if you for example are froome or another rider who have better mountain stats than hilly stats, that it will be better to use 84 than 85, so the rider only use his mountain stats who is
better than his hilly stats on mountains ?
I didnt test hil stat yet but it seems as u say. For a rider with better mon stat it should be more efficent to try to use only mon stat. Btw it is true up to a 7% slope . It seems for +7% slope u ll always use mon stat. So for A 7% slope and effort 99 purely mon should be used |
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| Teddy The Creator |
Posted on 19-07-2017 08:41
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2253
Joined: 19-10-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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jakobbe wrote:
After the patch hilly stats works from 85, so will that mean that if you for example are froome or another rider who have better mountain stats than hilly stats, that it will be better to use 84 than 85, so the rider only use his mountain stats who is
better than his hilly stats on mountains ?
It's not as simple as just MO before 85 and HILL after, it's just there so on say, a long climb where Froome is best, he can have 75-80 effort and push a fast pace with minimal energy consumption, as it's using his very high MO stat while a rider with high HI and low MO will struggle unless they go up to 85-90, where they won't be able to last very long.
So on a short climb, You can use Froome on either 80 or so, where he won't use tons of energy, but the other punchers on the stage will be using 90 or so, and will speed ahead of Froome. Quite realistic. So if Froome used 90, he'll do well considering he's got 79 hill, but won't do as well as he does on long mountains where he can use lower effort for a longer period.
So if you're on a long mountain, and use 90 effort with Froome, you'll go faster than if you go 80, but your energy will run out quicker, and you won't go as fast as someone with a 80+ HI stat on 90 effort. But if you go on 80 effort, it'll use your MO stat, and the rider with high HI stat will run out of energy quickly as the climb goes on, and when they drop down to 80 effort, they'll slow down more because of their low MO stat.
It's quite simple and logical, but hard to put into words.
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| Teddy The Creator |
Posted on 19-07-2017 08:43
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2253
Joined: 19-10-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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sobrano wrote:
jakobbe wrote:
After the patch hilly stats works from 85, so will that mean that if you for example are froome or another rider who have better mountain stats than hilly stats, that it will be better to use 84 than 85, so the rider only use his mountain stats who is
better than his hilly stats on mountains ?
I didnt test hil stat yet but it seems as u say. For a rider with better mon stat it should be more efficent to try to use only mon stat. Btw it is true up to a 7% slope . It seems for +7% slope u ll always use mon stat. So for A 7% slope and effort 99 purely mon should be used
Where did you read that? That's stupid if true, as puncheurs excel on steep but short hills, not low inclines.
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 19-07-2017 09:19
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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sobrano wrote:
jakobbe wrote:
After the patch hilly stats works from 85, so will that mean that if you for example are froome or another rider who have better mountain stats than hilly stats, that it will be better to use 84 than 85, so the rider only use his mountain stats who is
better than his hilly stats on mountains ?
I didnt test hil stat yet but it seems as u say. For a rider with better mon stat it should be more efficent to try to use only mon stat. Btw it is true up to a 7% slope . It seems for +7% slope u ll always use mon stat. So for A 7% slope and effort 99 purely mon should be used
nonononononono
you did not understand the patch notes
below 2% slope FL is used
between 2% and 7% slope FL and the climbing stat are used
above 7% slope only the climbing stat is used
but which stat is the climbing stat?
that depends on effort %
1-84 effort MO
84-95 effort MO+HI (higher = more HI less MO)
96-99 effort HI |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 19-07-2017 10:56
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Teddy The Creator wrote:
sobrano wrote:
jakobbe wrote:
After the patch hilly stats works from 85, so will that mean that if you for example are froome or another rider who have better mountain stats than hilly stats, that it will be better to use 84 than 85, so the rider only use his mountain stats who is
better than his hilly stats on mountains ?
I didnt test hil stat yet but it seems as u say. For a rider with better mon stat it should be more efficent to try to use only mon stat. Btw it is true up to a 7% slope . It seems for +7% slope u ll always use mon stat. So for A 7% slope and effort 99 purely mon should be used
Where did you read that? That's stupid if true, as puncheurs excel on steep but short hills, not low inclines.
i m sorry i did a mistake i didnt well understand the patch note. Now i do!
btw for my opinion in order to have the best realistic behaviour cyanide should delete MO and HI stats and create instead a CLIMB stat and an other stat as "lactic acid" or something like that.
again in my opinion: the new MO/HI formula should work btw i am just a bit skeptic because: in order to take advantage from an High Hill raider, should to be used a large effort, so something like 91-96%. Well I think btw that so high efforts are not so efficent at all in the PCM mechanics.
Very rarely is a good idea to use a so high effort
Edited by sobrano on 19-07-2017 11:07
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| sobrano |
Posted on 19-07-2017 14:55
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
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hello guys i did a test on HI/MO stats
stage 17 of giro d'italia which have a nice climb at the start of the stage.
as usually i used a couple of riders with all stats at 65. The first with MO 85 the second with HI 85.
i tested it by using effot 85-90-92-96 and 99
i give u directly the results of my observation:
it seems that the rider with high HI value keep an important higher speed compared to MO 85 for effort >=92
at effort 96 is evident that the HI 85 is much better but: (there is a but) for some reasons the HI 85 at effort 96 burn up the red bar cause its ppm is more than 178, on the countrary the MON 85 at same 96 effort is slower but he dont burn the red bar cause its ppm is lower than 178...(it is strange because (at least up to PCM2014) in pcm at same effort corresponds about the same ppm but here at same effort we have a difference of more then 10 ppm).
this behaviour broke at max effort (99) where both the riders get max ppm (something like 195ppm) and as before the HI 85 is much more fast.
conclusions:
in my opinion it has sense for a good HI rider try to win on a good MO rider only by using very very high efforts (>=96) better if at the end of the stage, so in my opinion it is usefull only for attacks or final climbing sprints.
p.s. i tested REC stat too, it works as in old pcm editions, it affect the freshness and the form during the stages. This result in a less empty green bar at the beginning of the next stage.
Edited by sobrano on 19-07-2017 20:28
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