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Critérium du Dauphiné 2017
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| Shonak |
Posted on 12-06-2017 23:10
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Tour de France Champion
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Choklets wrote:
Shonak wrote:
ARD and ZDF probably already having boner thinking of Buchmann at le Tour.
Nah...they prolly didn't even know there was a race going on.
Besides I doubt that a young rider like him can ride like that over 3 weeks
when he obviously is already in prime shape. Plus those retards at Bora-Tinkoff would prolly burn him to help that a#$?§at Majka.
But really good performances of young'uns like Buchmann, Oomen, Martin or Benoot.
Maybe it'd be better for him anyway if he goes into this race as a helper and as soon as Majka fails, he can go hunting stage wins. Imagine german media then when Buchmann wins a MTF. It'd be megaton. I have no idea, when was the last german mtf win? Ullrich in Andorra? 
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| delet0r |
Posted on 12-06-2017 23:31
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Amateur
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geschke tdf '15 stage 17 |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 12-06-2017 23:32
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Tour de France Champion
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Thanks. Completely forgot that pretty epic win back then.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| delet0r |
Posted on 12-06-2017 23:43
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Amateur
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unforunately emu is a very unselfish type of guy, so I don't expect any results at this tdf. Although ralph denk (ceo of bora) told the media emu will get the chance to go in a group in the later stages.
German media will hype him anyway. Most of the german audience is only watching the tdf and therefore doesn't appreciate domestique-work. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 13-06-2017 07:59
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Classics Specialist
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Shonak wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
Raziz wrote:
Everyone saying that Porte had a bay day........just no.
He followed the wrong guy essentially and got ruined because of it. It was poor tactics, but come the Tour this will not happen because of stronger domestiques for both Froome and Porte. Porte actually had a better day than the rest considering the champion performance he put on the final climb.
I really dislike all this "bad day" talk, clearly he is a changed rider and throughout this year, he had 1 bad day (Paris-Nice Stage 2). Others have had so many more, so can you please look at the positives before you look at things that have had its time in the past.
I think all people except for Ringo saw Porte here as the strongest rider and when you climb like that, he may had a weak moment but surely not a bad day.
Well he wasn't the strongest because he lost. Fulgsang was the strongest over the week.
If Porte was the strongest and lost then what chance does he have at the Tour when the big fish will be in top form?
Uhm, sure man, whatever keeps you asleep at night. I can't be bothered to argue with people again, who don't care about the context of a race and apparently just bother to look at a result and derive from the odd difference from rider A to rider B who the strongest is. There's way too much of this discussion going on lately.
"whatever keeps you asleep at night". What does that even mean?
Here is my reasoning for saying that Fulgsang was the stronger rider over the week.
1. Porte was BMCs absolute leader. He had a whole team supporting him.
2. Fulgsang started the race at best a free rider and at worst a domestique for Aru
3. Fulgsang won 2 stages, including a sprint which is a straight up comparison of strength between the riders involved. He won this sprint despite leading the other 3 riders up the final climb as he was still effectively Aru's helper at that stage. His second stage win he pulled away from Porte on the final climb to beat him by 1 minute, 15 seconds. The gap had been about 50 seconds when Fulgsang dropped Froome. So Fulgsang was faster up the final climb and yet Porte was stronger apparently.
4. Porte never once dropped Fulgsang in the entire race. He put 1.19 into him in the time trial and then lost it all on 3 mountain stages. If he looses that time to a domestique in 3 days, what is he going to lose to the best GC riders over 3 weeks at the Tour?
5. Fulgsang won. Simple as that. That is the simplest measure of strength over the week and Porte lost.
So there is my reasoning. Maybe if you were to put your reasons across rather than resort to name calling we can have a proper discussion on this discussion forum.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Kalach |
Posted on 13-06-2017 08:20
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ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
Raziz wrote:
Everyone saying that Porte had a bay day........just no.
He followed the wrong guy essentially and got ruined because of it. It was poor tactics, but come the Tour this will not happen because of stronger domestiques for both Froome and Porte. Porte actually had a better day than the rest considering the champion performance he put on the final climb.
I really dislike all this "bad day" talk, clearly he is a changed rider and throughout this year, he had 1 bad day (Paris-Nice Stage 2). Others have had so many more, so can you please look at the positives before you look at things that have had its time in the past.
I think all people except for Ringo saw Porte here as the strongest rider and when you climb like that, he may had a weak moment but surely not a bad day.
Well he wasn't the strongest because he lost. Fulgsang was the strongest over the week.
If Porte was the strongest and lost then what chance does he have at the Tour when the big fish will be in top form?
Uhm, sure man, whatever keeps you asleep at night. I can't be bothered to argue with people again, who don't care about the context of a race and apparently just bother to look at a result and derive from the odd difference from rider A to rider B who the strongest is. There's way too much of this discussion going on lately.
"whatever keeps you asleep at night". What does that even mean?
Here is my reasoning for saying that Fulgsang was the stronger rider over the week.
1. Porte was BMCs absolute leader. He had a whole team supporting him.
2. Fulgsang started the race at best a free rider and at worst a domestique for Aru
3. Fulgsang won 2 stages, including a sprint which is a straight up comparison of strength between the riders involved. He won this sprint despite leading the other 3 riders up the final climb as he was still effectively Aru's helper at that stage. His second stage win he pulled away from Porte on the final climb to beat him by 1 minute, 15 seconds. The gap had been about 50 seconds when Fulgsang dropped Froome. So Fulgsang was faster up the final climb and yet Porte was stronger apparently.
4. Porte never once dropped Fulgsang in the entire race. He put 1.19 into him in the time trial and then lost it all on 3 mountain stages. If he looses that time to a domestique in 3 days, what is he going to lose to the best GC riders over 3 weeks at the Tour?
5. Fulgsang won. Simple as that. That is the simplest measure of strength over the week and Porte lost.
So there is my reasoning. Maybe if you were to put your reasons across rather than resort to name calling we can have a proper discussion on this discussion forum.
Fuglsang won sprint over Porte because Froome elbowed Porte and it disturbed his sprint which makes that little difference certainly taking into account that there was a photo finish - watch the replay for that elbow
Since the Fuglsang was maybe underestimated, Porte did not care a much about him in comparison with Froome et al which certainly helped Fuglsang. Leading on the climb? Well there is not so big advanatage of the slipstream as at the flat.
Fuglsang also pulled away from Porte on the final stage because Porte messed it up with tactics. He had a burden of yellow jersey with no teammates at the crucial point and he had to close down many attacks which is the answer while he later could not focus on Fuglsang.
Definitely, nice win from Fuglsang! But I do not know why is there a comparison between Porte and Fuglsang? Whats the point? At the end of the day Fuglsang had a little bit more luck and at some point he was neglected by the others GC riders which played in his favour.
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 13-06-2017 08:25
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Classics Specialist
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"Fuglsang won sprint over Porte because Froome elbowed Porte and it disturbed his sprint which makes that little difference certainly - watch the replay."
Froomes elbow doesn't override the km's of riding on the front Fuglsang did up the last climb. If Porte was stronger he should have beaten Aru's domestique easily in the final sprint.
I think it's massively unfair and patronising to say Fuglsang only won because he was lucky and Porte didn't care about him. He outrode Porte, and everyone else, over the last 3 stages and beat him because he was the better rider over the week.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 13-06-2017 08:33
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
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Damn can any discussion be more lame as this one?!
Se..see what one troll can produce. Schoolbook/ Psychology material |
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| Kalach |
Posted on 13-06-2017 08:36
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Posts: 880
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Okay but Froome`s elbow causes that Fuglsang won that particular sprint.
I am not saying that Fuglsang won because he was lucky. I am only saying that these circumstances created that difference between him and Porte which was very small. Fuglsang was very strong no doubt about that. I wish him a good Tour - it would be good to see him get better and improve his best result at the Tour.
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
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PCM Velogames Championship - Top Results
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* 3rd Giro d’Italia ('22)
* 3rd Vuelta Espana ('23)
* 3rd Autumn Classics ('19, '18)
* 9th Spring Classics ('18)
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 13-06-2017 08:37
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Posts: 3472
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I like how the people giving reasons for their argument are being labelled as trolls but those name calling and labelling people trolls are simply saying " Porte was stronger" with nothing to back it up.
It really is hysterical and sums this site up perfectly over the last few years.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 13-06-2017 08:50
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But for a change he will have much better team around him for Tour. Still weaker than SKY of course. 
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 13-06-2017 08:59
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ringo182 wrote:
I like how the people giving reasons for their argument are being labelled as trolls but those name calling and labelling people trolls are simply saying " Porte was stronger" with nothing to back it up.
It really is hysterical and sums this site up perfectly over the last few years.
Porte was strongest rider at Dauphiné and anybody with cycling knowledge who saw the stages knows that. Fuglsang was underestimated, he was awesome, nobody denies that, but next to his top form won also because of combination of other factors, like Porte making tactical mistake.
He is deserved winner, but that was not main point of posts you argue with.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 13-06-2017 09:03
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
I like how the people giving reasons for their argument are being labelled as trolls but those name calling and labelling people trolls are simply saying " Porte was stronger" with nothing to back it up.
It really is hysterical and sums this site up perfectly over the last few years.
Porte was strongest rider at Dauphiné and anybody with cycling knowledge who saw the stages knows that. Fuglsang was underestimated, he was awesome, nobody denies that, but next to his top form won also because of combination of other factors, like Porte making tactical mistake.
He is deserved winner, but that was not main point of posts you argue with.
Again, Porte was the strongest for no particular reason other than "I have more cycling knowledge". I'll remember that one for future arguments.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 13-06-2017 09:11
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Porte was so strong, that Fuglsang could easily follow him on the first two mountain stages and beat him on the last one.
Porte was stronger than Froome, Contador, Valverde, Aru, etc. Just not Fuglsang!
ringo182: Fuglsang is not domestique this year. It has always been the plan that he should be captain in tour and Aru in Giro. Aru became injured without training and could not join Giro. So now they share captain's role in Tour.
Edited by Arberg27 on 13-06-2017 09:25
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| Strydz |
Posted on 13-06-2017 09:49
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Porte was the strongest physically in this race which is pretty obvious to most but he fell down tactically, Porte has never been the smartest on the road (not his fault as he used to be a triathlete  ) which i why he needs a strong road captain or climbing Dom, possibly Caruso can fill that roll in the Tour but that wont be easy.
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| Kalach |
Posted on 13-06-2017 10:17
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Strydz wrote:
Porte was the strongest physically in this race which is pretty obvious to most but he fell down tactically, Porte has never been the smartest on the road (not his fault as he used to be a triathlete ) which i why he needs a strong road captain or climbing Dom, possibly Caruso can fill that roll in the Tour but that wont be easy.
Caruso and Roche hopefully. Ben Hermans could also do something.
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
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PCM Velogames Championship - Top Results
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* 3rd Tour de France ('23, '21)
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* 3rd Vuelta Espana ('23)
* 3rd Autumn Classics ('19, '18)
* 9th Spring Classics ('18)
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| Selwink |
Posted on 13-06-2017 10:19
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Hermans already rode most of the Giro. I'd be a bit surprised if he were to go to the Tour as well.
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| Kalach |
Posted on 13-06-2017 10:24
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Ah you are right forgot about it. Then there will be de Marchi and Moinard I think except Caruso for climbs maybe Bookwalter as well. But yeah its nothing when comparing to other teams and its domestiques. Porte seems to have only Caruso and Roche who have a potential to be solid in mountains.
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
_____________________________________________
PCM Velogames Championship - Top Results
* 1st Tour de Suisse ('23)
* 1st Tour de Romandie ('19, '18)
* 1st Tour de Pologne ('20, '19)
* 2nd Tour of California ('19)
* 2nd Tour de Suisse ('18)
* 3rd Tour de France ('23, '21)
* 3rd Giro d’Italia ('22)
* 3rd Vuelta Espana ('23)
* 3rd Autumn Classics ('19, '18)
* 9th Spring Classics ('18)
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 13-06-2017 10:44
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Only on time trial. Otherwise was Fuglsang stronger. |
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| Masterblaster01 |
Posted on 13-06-2017 11:02
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Well, he was superb in the time trial, but also the strongest in the mountains imo. Why? He cought every attack they threw at him, except for Fuglsangs attack. Fuglsang was fresh, could just hang in the wheel and follow, until it was his turn. Porte couldn't or wouldn't follow, we don't know, but i think Porte was physically the strongest rider in the Dauphiné, but just couldn't follow every single attack on his own. Astana had an tactial advantage they played well.
Great performance by Fugl though, being in that spot and doing it. Curious to see if Fugl still has this form in the TdF or that he just had his peek.
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