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Ronde van Vlaanderen 2017 ll Vlaanderens mooiste
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 05-04-2017 13:00
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World Champion
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Riis123 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
Well the future isn't now considering he isn't riding...
Apparently no Roubaix for Phil, thats too bad, all in for Boonen.
*** Boonen, Degenkolb
** Naesen, Sagan, GVA, Terpstra
* Kristoff, Demare, Boasson, Baarle, Stybar, Stannard
LOL, nice table. 
Resorting to childish behaviour instead of arguments now Avin? Must be tough on you 
Well in al honesty, how can you not give max stars to Sagan and GVA?
But yeah, I get why people say it's less fun then it used to be. Admins allowed to much trolling from Arberg and a few others, now everyone thinks it's ok..
Because Roubaix is a completely different race the the flemish classics and RvV. I thought everyone were aware of that. But I guess people think cobbled classics and goes Sagan and GVA must be the favourites then.
Its for heavyish diesels and I think Degenkolb and Boonen are better suited to that. I don't think anyone unleashing them on flat cobbled secteurs.
Have you seen GVA chase that last flat part of Ronde? Or Sagan distancing Cancellara and Vanmarcke last year? Both in Gent-Wevelgem this year? Or Omloop, who were the two biggest engines there. Sagan in Kuurne? I agree Boonen and Degenkolb will be better on a flatter race like Roubaix, but that doesn't take away GVA or Sagan's qualities.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 05-04-2017 13:08
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Yes, I especially think GVA has been impressive, but its another ballgame. You use different energy systems during Roubaix and the Belgian races - in the flemish classics, you are using the anaerobic system a lot (super explosive, more stop-and-go action), while Roubaix more is more of a big, sweet spot, just below FTP, anaerobe effort for the last 3 hours without any rest. Thats a completely different way of racing, honestly and thats why you just can't point to those efforts since they were AFTER anaerobic, lactate efforts which their bodies can cope better with than, say, Kristoff, Boasson Hagen, Degenkolb and Boonen.
Normally, we would also say Sagan is a much, much better sprinter than GVA, but the truth is GVA is beating Sagan more than Sagan is beating GVA in a sprint after a hard race. In short, previous efforts have a big impact on what you are able to put out afterwards. |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 05-04-2017 13:31
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World Champion
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Riis123 wrote:
Yes, I especially think GVA has been impressive, but its another ballgame. You use different energy systems during Roubaix and the Belgian races - in the flemish classics, you are using the anaerobic system a lot (super explosive, more stop-and-go action), while Roubaix more is more of a big, sweet spot, just below FTP, anaerobe effort for the last 3 hours without any rest. Thats a completely different way of racing, honestly and thats why you just can't point to those efforts since they were AFTER anaerobic, lactate efforts which their bodies can cope better with than, say, Kristoff, Boasson Hagen, Degenkolb and Boonen.
Normally, we would also say Sagan is a much, much better sprinter than GVA, but the truth is GVA is beating Sagan more than Sagan is beating GVA in a sprint after a hard race. In short, previous efforts have a big impact on what you are able to put out afterwards.
But look at Gent-Wevelgem and Kuurne, they resemble Roubaix more then Omloop, Dwars Door, E3 and Ronde. There are some hills, but far away from the finish. Wevelgem: Boonen won it 3x, Degenkolb once, so I think we can agree it suits them? Sagan also won it twice and GVA won it this year. In Kuurne it's 3 wins for Boonen, but Sagan won it impressively this year. And not on the hills.
Look, I get your point Boonen, Degenkolb (and Stannard, and Hagen, and Boom, and ...) will be better in Roubaix then they were in Flanders, but that doesn't take away GVA's and Sagan's qualities. They can't use their explosiveness as a weapon, but they have many other qualities in the tank.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 05-04-2017 13:38
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Tour de France Champion
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
niini wrote:
Its funny. Sagan behaves like moron for one week of his career and he is already most hated person here and public enemy number 1 while riders like terpstra, cavendish and bouhani have almost fanclubs here  .
Sad reality with current level of cycling discussions here...
Maybe we need issoisso to return to have proper discussions   <3
Edited by Shonak on 05-04-2017 13:38
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 05-04-2017 13:38
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Its not like I donut give them any chances tho. Im just saying that they are much better suited to Flanders than Roubaix and I think both realise that. What made them outstanding favourites for RvV was their stamina and explosiveness, the ladder doesn't mean anything in Roubaix - both are aware of that. Sagan, for example, didn't even choose to ride this race for a good period and his best result is 6th.
And thats why I rank them just below Degenstache and Boonen who are Roubaix specialists. Greg and Sagan are not, but are such good riders that they most probably will contend for this race even though it doesn't really suit them that much. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 05-04-2017 13:50
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World Champion
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Shonak wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
niini wrote:
Its funny. Sagan behaves like moron for one week of his career and he is already most hated person here and public enemy number 1 while riders like terpstra, cavendish and bouhani have almost fanclubs here .
Sad reality with current level of cycling discussions here...
Maybe we need issoisso to return to have proper discussions <3
I would prefer him over ******* 7 days a week. Same arrogance and confidence about own truth, but different level of cycling knowledge and objectivity.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 05-04-2017 14:07
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Shonak wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
niini wrote:
Its funny. Sagan behaves like moron for one week of his career and he is already most hated person here and public enemy number 1 while riders like terpstra, cavendish and bouhani have almost fanclubs here .
Sad reality with current level of cycling discussions here...
Maybe we need issoisso to return to have proper discussions <3
I would prefer him over ******* 7 days a week. Same arrogance and confidence about own truth, but different level of cycling knowledge and objectivity.
It seems it has gotten to a point where everything I say irritates you to the point of you comparing me to a worse issoisso. I honestly don't know what I've said or done to piss you off to that extent, but okay, I know how it feels when you hate someone that much and isn't able to take a deep breath at times. I also noticed your little dig at my cycling acumen, thats not nice, but I will leave it at that.
I think the discussions would benefit from you stop posting silly memes, pictures and what have you and instead argue your case (which from your POV is so much better than my completely unjustified cases), so that shouldn't be so hard. Yet you still go back to that form of childish behaviour over and over again. Its funny. Is it because I don't always say nice things about Sagan? It probably is, at least to some extent. But in these times its not hard to find anything negative to say about Sagan and I call it as I see it regardless of whether thats a popular belief or not. On this forum, thats obviously not very well taken at many times which I've found out over the last couple of year or so in here. I don't really care that much, but I can surely understand why Kirchen felt he needed to leave the forum for a while. It often gets very personal for no apparent reason (apart from arguing another case than what the masses believe to be the truth).
Maybe I should do that as well. Its not pleasent to stay at this forum with people like you. Suddenly turned from a member that I somewhat respected to someone who grabs every opportunity to mock and expose me. I know them from real life, better just dumb them and move on with your life instead of getting caught up and gettin negative vibes. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 05-04-2017 14:19
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World Champion
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Riis123 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Shonak wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
niini wrote:
Its funny. Sagan behaves like moron for one week of his career and he is already most hated person here and public enemy number 1 while riders like terpstra, cavendish and bouhani have almost fanclubs here .
Sad reality with current level of cycling discussions here...
Maybe we need issoisso to return to have proper discussions <3
I would prefer him over ******* 7 days a week. Same arrogance and confidence about own truth, but different level of cycling knowledge and objectivity.
It seems it has gotten to a point where everything I say irritates you to the point of you comparing me to a worse issoisso. I honestly don't know what I've said or done to piss you off to that extent, but okay, I know how it feels when you hate someone that much and isn't able to take a deep breath at times. I also noticed your little dig at my cycling acumen, thats not nice, but I will leave it at that.
I think the discussions would benefit from you stop posting silly memes, pictures and what have you and instead argue your case (which from your POV is so much better than my completely unjustified cases), so that shouldn't be so hard. Yet you still go back to that form of childish behaviour over and over again. Its funny. Is it because I don't always say nice things about Sagan? It probably is, at least to some extent. But in these times its not hard to find anything negative to say about Sagan and I call it as I see it regardless of whether thats a popular belief or not. On this forum, thats obviously not very well taken at many times which I've found out over the last couple of year or so in here. I don't really care that much, but I can surely understand why Kirchen felt he needed to leave the forum for a while. It often gets very personal for no apparent reason (apart from arguing another case than what the masses believe to be the truth).
Maybe I should do that as well. Its not pleasent to stay at this forum with people like you. Suddenly turned from a member that I somewhat respected to someone who grabs every opportunity to mock and expose me. I know them from real life, better just dumb them and move on with your life instead of getting caught up and gettin negative vibes.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 05-04-2017 14:20
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Yup, just confirmed everything that I've thought of you lately. What a massive dick you are at times, Avin. Grow up. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 05-04-2017 14:28
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World Champion
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Riis123 wrote:
Yup, just confirmed everything that I've thought of you lately. What a massive dick you have Avin. Grow it up more.
Not sure how do you know about my massive dick, but i can tell you there is no room in my pants for another grow up, like you suggest. 
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| tsmoha |
Posted on 05-04-2017 14:28
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Directeur Sportif
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Okay, guys. Calm down and stop your "discussion" here. I don't prefer the PM solution..
Thanks.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 05-04-2017 14:31
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Classics Specialist
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I find it amusing how Avin complains about Trolls and the level of discussion on the forum yet a lot of the time he is the biggest troll and brings the level of discussion down to childish memes on a regular basis.
It's a shame because he does talk a lot of sense a lot of the time.
I'm just enjoying not being on the end of his memes myself for a change
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 05-04-2017 14:32
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tsmoha wrote:
Okay, guys. Calm down and stop your "discussion" here. I don't prefer the PM solution..
Thanks.
I think both of us are calm. The difference between us being that Avin over the last couple of weeks behaves worse than his idol which we can't say anything bad about or we shall feel his childish wraith of bad jokes and bad memes less fun that watching paint dry.
Apparently, thats normal behaviour these days in here. Fine. Moderators think that's normal behaviour and some of them even join in at some points. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 05-04-2017 14:39
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Grand Tour Specialist
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ringo182 wrote:
I find it amusing how Avin complains about Trolls and the level of discussion on the forum yet a lot of the time he is the biggest troll and brings the level of discussion down to childish memes on a regular basis.
It's a shame because he does talk a lot of sense a lot of the time.
I'm just enjoying not being on the end of his memes myself for a change
Indeed. Next level trolling. But thats acceptable.
On your second point, not sure I necessarily I agree. |
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| tsmoha |
Posted on 05-04-2017 14:49
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Directeur Sportif
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Riis123 wrote:
Apparently, thats normal behaviour these days in here. Fine. Moderators think that's normal behaviour and some of them even join in at some points.
Well, I am a moderator and since I asked you both to stop here, it's apparently NOT normal for me to behave like that. Otherwise I would not ask to end this useless "you are a child.. no, you are child" thing. So in case, I ain't clear enough: just don't answer if you think someone's trolling. I don't need to know about you guys' dick or something. If I were calm, I would not call someone a dick, btw.
So keep it easy. You think Boonen can win. Avin doesn't. Why be mad at each other? Just watch the race then and find out.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 05-04-2017 14:53
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The only reason why Avin acts this way is the fact that I said Sagan wasn't the big favourite and took plenty of time afterwards to explain why I don't think that. And I sure hope you are able to tell the difference between that and the junk Avin posted and referring to me as *******? |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 05-04-2017 15:02
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I'm totally with Riis here. Avin acts like a child since a few months. It's really becoming annoying.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 05-04-2017 15:03
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World Champion
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ringo182 wrote:
Gilbert will be going for the Ardennes where he'll have a better chance in this form. Doubt he'll win all 3 again but surely he's very short odds to win at least one in the form he's in.
QS have Boonen, Terpstra, Gaviria, Stybar (What's happened to him this year) etc so Gilbert too would be overkill. Even Kittel is an outside shout at Roubaix (I'm assuming he's riding).
About what happened to Stybar this year...it is just a speculation, but i have a feeling that his life priorities changed with a new member of their family. You can see him on Twitter posting left and right about love for his son etc.and much less than before about his training and racing stuff. Maybe he gives major part of his energy and time, thoughts to his family and he is not totally focused on cycling career like he was earlier. It is natural and admirable, but it can be that it hinders his career now. Family is always first for me too so who cares, it is just work
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 05-04-2017 15:06
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Classics Specialist
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Gilbert will be going for the Ardennes where he'll have a better chance in this form. Doubt he'll win all 3 again but surely he's very short odds to win at least one in the form he's in.
QS have Boonen, Terpstra, Gaviria, Stybar (What's happened to him this year) etc so Gilbert too would be overkill. Even Kittel is an outside shout at Roubaix (I'm assuming he's riding).
About what happened to Stybar this year...it is just a speculation, but i have a feeling that his life priorities changed with a new member of their family. You can see him on Twitter posting left and right about love for his son etc.and much less than before about his training and racing stuff. Maybe he gives major part of his energy and time, thoughts to his family and he is not totally focused on cycling career like he was earlier. It is natural and admirable, but it can be that it hinders his career now. Family is always first for me too so who cares, it is just work
Maybe, I wasn't aware of his new family. I was just wondering as he hasn't really been anywhere to be seen throughout the classics season as of yet.
That could well be the issue though.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| tsmoha |
Posted on 05-04-2017 15:20
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Directeur Sportif
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Riis123 wrote:
The only reason why Avin acts this way is the fact that I said Sagan wasn't the big favourite and took plenty of time afterwards to explain why I don't think that. And I sure hope you are able to tell the difference between that and the junk Avin posted and referring to me as *******?
So one last time: yes, I am able to tell the difference. And I'm also able to unterstand why it's better to not answer to someone who is trolling in your eyes. That's why I asked you BOTH to stop. I didn't accuse you personally for anything. My message went also to Avin. Not only you.
Please read carefully. I just repeat my gentle question to stop your discussion.
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