Very interesting parcours. Much, much better than 2016, this time around they have managed to link up climbs pretty well with another and there are many medium mountain stages to spice the race up which serves as a great TV spectacle, but also a very good prep for Worlds.
A huge plus is also the ITT is 42 km and completely flat. The big minus for me is the Sierra Nevada-stage which is short and pretty meh - Angliru stage is unfortunately also short, but still very, very potent!
For Vuelta standards, it gets 9/10 from me. Best GT of 2017 on paper.
Croatia14 wrote:
Ion Izagirre to go for the GC at Le Tour for Bahrain-Merida
I think he needs to concentrate on getting into the top 25 before making statements about going for the GC
I think thats very harsh.
Izagirre has never been in it for the GC, maybe apart from Giro 2015 (I can't remember his ambitions, but I assume he tried it there). However, he has progressed massively over the past 2-3 years.
But you are right: Chances are he will end up burning his fingers and end up like Rui Costa, a rider he anyways is very similar to. But you never know until you try it and stranger things have definitely happened. He will still focus on the week long races and if he fails relatively early in TdF, he will still have plenty of time to try to grab a stage.
Yeah, actually even in Giro 2015, he and the whole Movistar squad were just on stage hunting mission.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
True I guess. However he also has only ever won one stage race in his career, the tour of Poland which isn't exactly the greatest/most mountainous race on the calendar. He had a few good results/top 10s last season at Suisse, Romandie, Paris Nice etc, but he's never shown anything at any grand tour before. I know you can say he's never had the chance to lead, but neither has someone like Thomas, on paper a rider with no real chance of winning the tour but who has finished constantly in the top 20 or so for the last 2/3 years despite riding for Froome.
I just think he needs to win something, anything, before him and his team start saying he's going for the GC at the biggest race in the world.
People say Thomas has no chance, but at least he's won/top 3'd at a few top races and he's been up in the top few at the tour before cracking a bit in the final week. He won't win the Tour but at least him being named as a contender can be justified.
Izagirre has done nothing at grand tours to justify/be taken seriously as a GC contender at the tour. Yet.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
Time to dive into the UCI Rules again and clear up some points.
A lot of this seems to link together, and seems to have been mis-interpreted by a couple of news sites.
From 2017 onwards if a WT team disbands, then no new WT license will be given out. So if, for example, Bahrain stops running at the end of 2017 the 2018 WT will consist of 17 teams.
New WT license's will only be given out if there are less than 16 teams continuing. Then new license's will be given out until the WT has 16 teams in it.
This links into the "new WT races don't give points". If more teams are applying for WT license's than there are spare license's, then the 2017 results in the new WT races will not be counted into that decision.
New WT races do give points to the 2017 WorldTour and World Ranking!
So don't go panicking the new races don't matter. They still do, until more teams want WT than there are WT spaces. Then they will not count towards a ranking based decision.
(but given the difference in points available, the best riders would still be better off focusing on the existing races anyway)
Beyond that sporting criteria, the UCI has added a load of focus on "organisation" to the rules. It gives no definition or specifics on what "organisation" is, just that apparently it will be very important...
[EDIT: Ok there is actually a good amount of explanation elsewhere in the rules, just took me a bit longer to find. It's far too detailed for me to summarise here and ultimately it means nothing and just formalises what was already happening]
Aaaand this entire system will change completely for 2019, with the PCC taking over from the main UCI. (hence the "license's will only be valid for one year" comment, because all licenses will now expire for 2019 when the system changes)
On race participation. Yep, all WT teams must take part in all existing WT races like normal. Participation in the new WT races is voluntary. However, if a WT team is invited to a new WT race it looks like they can be fined or disciplined for turning down the invitation (although this isn't the clearest of rules).
The new events will only lose WT status if they cannot attract at least 10 WT teams for "two consecutive editions". So the new WT races will all be WT in 2018, providing they meet all safety, funding and registration needs.
And from 2019, the 'relegated' WT team gets an automatic invitation to all WT events, but that it can freely turn down.
So there's a little bit of a clean-up on what the article was talking about. New WT races do give ranking points, but won't be counted in a license dispute. New WT races will only get dropped from the calendar after the 2018 season, as long as they stay funded, safe and organised.
Don't panic. The UCI has not f*cked up at all. In fact it's layed out a lot of clarrification in the rules paving way for bigger changes in 2019.
(although my god the rules are now a bit of a mess)
Edited by TheManxMissile on 13-01-2017 15:55
Time to dive into the UCI Rules again and clear up some points.
A lot of this seems to link together, and seems to have been mis-interpreted by a couple of news sites.
From 2017 onwards if a WT team disbands, then no new WT license will be given out. So if, for example, Bahrain stops running at the end of 2017 the 2018 WT will consist of 17 teams.
New WT license's will only be given out if there are less than 16 teams continuing. Then new license's will be given out until the WT has 16 teams in it.
This links into the "new WT races don't give points". If more teams are applying for WT license's than there are spare license's, then the 2017 results in the new WT races will not be counted into that decision.
New WT races do give points to the 2017 WorldTour and World Ranking!
So don't go panicking the new races don't matter. They still do, until more teams want WT than there are WT spaces. Then they will not count towards a ranking based decision.
(but given the difference in points available, the best riders would still be better off focusing on the existing races anyway)
Beyond that sporting criteria, the UCI has added a load of focus on "organisation" to the rules. It gives no definition or specifics on what "organisation" is, just that apparently it will be very important...
[EDIT: Ok there is actually a good amount of explanation elsewhere in the rules, just took me a bit longer to find. It's far too detailed for me to summarise here and ultimately it means nothing and just formalises what was already happening]
Aaaand this entire system will change completely for 2019, with the PCC taking over from the main UCI. (hence the "license's will only be valid for one year" comment, because all licenses will now expire for 2019 when the system changes)
On race participation. Yep, all WT teams must take part in all existing WT races like normal. Participation in the new WT races is voluntary. However, if a WT team is invited to a new WT race it looks like they can be fined or disciplined for turning down the invitation (although this isn't the clearest of rules).
The new events will only lose WT status if they cannot attract at least 10 WT teams for "two consecutive editions". So the new WT races will all be WT in 2018, providing they meet all safety, funding and registration needs.
And from 2019, the 'relegated' WT team gets an automatic invitation to all WT events, but that it can freely turn down.
So there's a little bit of a clean-up on what the article was talking about. New WT races do give ranking points, but won't be counted in a license dispute. New WT races will only get dropped from the calendar after the 2018 season, as long as they stay funded, safe and organised.
Don't panic. The UCI has not f*cked up at all. In fact it's layed out a lot of clarrification in the rules paving way for bigger changes in 2019.
(although my god the rules are now a bit of a mess)
ringo182 wrote:
True I guess. However he also has only ever won one stage race in his career, the tour of Poland which isn't exactly the greatest/most mountainous race on the calendar. He had a few good results/top 10s last season at Suisse, Romandie, Paris Nice etc, but he's never shown anything at any grand tour before. I know you can say he's never had the chance to lead, but neither has someone like Thomas, on paper a rider with no real chance of winning the tour but who has finished constantly in the top 20 or so for the last 2/3 years despite riding for Froome. I just think he needs to win something, anything, before him and his team start saying he's going for the GC at the biggest race in the world.
People say Thomas has no chance, but at least he's won/top 3'd at a few top races and he's been up in the top few at the tour before cracking a bit in the final week. He won't win the Tour but at least him being named as a contender can be justified.
Izagirre has done nothing at grand tours to justify/be taken seriously as a GC contender at the tour. Yet.
While I agree that Izagirre hasn't really proven himself in a GT yet and that he definitely won't be one of the favourites in the Tour de France, I don't quite agree with the bolded part.
Sastre also only ever won one stage race in his career and we know which one that was.
Vali wrote:
Sastre also only ever won one stage race in his career and we know which one that was.
Slightly different as Sastre finished: 8th, 6th, 2nd, 4th and 2nd in the Vuelta, and 6th in the Giro, and 10th, 9th, 8th, 3rd and 4th in the Tour. All before he won the race in '08.
Whereas Ion has yet to finish in the Top25 of a GT and only once in the Top40.
One of these riders had a big GC history and progression prior to winning. One doesn't At least Gorka has two Top40 GT finishes to his name
Strange discussion. Seems like people forget Ion Izagirre was on the same team as Valverde and Nairito who baically get auto-leadership to every race they go. So the few chances he gets for the GC, eg Tour de Suisse, he does really well, and then that isn't enough to be hopeful? This isn't Tejay van garderen folks
Good point by Vali too. Shows that GTs and stage races are just two pairs of shoes, as we all know. Look at Aru or Portechkin. Maybe Ion won't be good at le Tour but its time to find out since he hasn't ever specificially peaked for a race like this, ever. Also going for a GC is unlike winning it. Best to peak for it and see where you at, and then maybe go back to stage win hunting or whatever. Only lame ducks do the same racing schedule every year.
Edited by Shonak on 13-01-2017 18:10
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
Time to dive into the UCI Rules again and clear up some points.
A lot of this seems to link together, and seems to have been mis-interpreted by a couple of news sites.
From 2017 onwards if a WT team disbands, then no new WT license will be given out. So if, for example, Bahrain stops running at the end of 2017 the 2018 WT will consist of 17 teams.
New WT license's will only be given out if there are less than 16 teams continuing. Then new license's will be given out until the WT has 16 teams in it.
This links into the "new WT races don't give points". If more teams are applying for WT license's than there are spare license's, then the 2017 results in the new WT races will not be counted into that decision.
New WT races do give points to the 2017 WorldTour and World Ranking!
So don't go panicking the new races don't matter. They still do, until more teams want WT than there are WT spaces. Then they will not count towards a ranking based decision.
(but given the difference in points available, the best riders would still be better off focusing on the existing races anyway)
Beyond that sporting criteria, the UCI has added a load of focus on "organisation" to the rules. It gives no definition or specifics on what "organisation" is, just that apparently it will be very important...
[EDIT: Ok there is actually a good amount of explanation elsewhere in the rules, just took me a bit longer to find. It's far too detailed for me to summarise here and ultimately it means nothing and just formalises what was already happening]
Aaaand this entire system will change completely for 2019, with the PCC taking over from the main UCI. (hence the "license's will only be valid for one year" comment, because all licenses will now expire for 2019 when the system changes)
On race participation. Yep, all WT teams must take part in all existing WT races like normal. Participation in the new WT races is voluntary. However, if a WT team is invited to a new WT race it looks like they can be fined or disciplined for turning down the invitation (although this isn't the clearest of rules).
The new events will only lose WT status if they cannot attract at least 10 WT teams for "two consecutive editions". So the new WT races will all be WT in 2018, providing they meet all safety, funding and registration needs.
And from 2019, the 'relegated' WT team gets an automatic invitation to all WT events, but that it can freely turn down.
So there's a little bit of a clean-up on what the article was talking about. New WT races do give ranking points, but won't be counted in a license dispute. New WT races will only get dropped from the calendar after the 2018 season, as long as they stay funded, safe and organised.
Don't panic. The UCI has not f*cked up at all. In fact it's layed out a lot of clarrification in the rules paving way for bigger changes in 2019.
(although my god the rules are now a bit of a mess)
Thanks TheManxMissile !
Question : What are the big changes coming in 2019 ? It is the same reform scheduled for 2017 and then ... postponed or is anything else ?
4th in Valenciana, 2nd in Algarve, 5th in P-N, 1st Miguel Indurain, 3rd in Romandie including stage win, 2nd in Suisse including an insanely impressive ITT victory, Nat Champ in Spain and a very impressive last 3 days in TdF (7th in the mountain ITT, 11th on Mont Blanc and winner in Morzine). If theres one thing he has, its consistency - it remains to be seen how that will look during 3 weeks.
Izagirre has been one of the most underrated riders IMO for the couple of last years. His ride into Morzine was hella impressive, but what surprised me the most was how he demolished everyone in that Davos time-trial in Switzerland!
There are many riders who win less than Izagirre and I can't see why he shouldn't at least give it a shot now that he is away from Movistar.
Edited by Riis123 on 13-01-2017 18:13
For me Ion is a better cyclist than his results, but I do not think putting him leader in The Tour is the right thing. Vuelta is more apropriate for a first experience as leader.
LLDS wrote:
For me Ion is a better cyclist than his results, but I do not think putting him leader in The Tour is the right thing. Vuelta is more apropriate for a first experience as leader.
Very much agree on the latter part which is why it was disappointing to me when he got the TdF-call last year, but he was never going to get a real chance with Nairo and Bala on the Vuelta-team anyways.
Time to dive into the UCI Rules again and clear up some points.
A lot of this seems to link together, and seems to have been mis-interpreted by a couple of news sites.
From 2017 onwards if a WT team disbands, then no new WT license will be given out. So if, for example, Bahrain stops running at the end of 2017 the 2018 WT will consist of 17 teams.
New WT license's will only be given out if there are less than 16 teams continuing. Then new license's will be given out until the WT has 16 teams in it.
This links into the "new WT races don't give points". If more teams are applying for WT license's than there are spare license's, then the 2017 results in the new WT races will not be counted into that decision.
New WT races do give points to the 2017 WorldTour and World Ranking!
So don't go panicking the new races don't matter. They still do, until more teams want WT than there are WT spaces. Then they will not count towards a ranking based decision.
(but given the difference in points available, the best riders would still be better off focusing on the existing races anyway)
Beyond that sporting criteria, the UCI has added a load of focus on "organisation" to the rules. It gives no definition or specifics on what "organisation" is, just that apparently it will be very important...
[EDIT: Ok there is actually a good amount of explanation elsewhere in the rules, just took me a bit longer to find. It's far too detailed for me to summarise here and ultimately it means nothing and just formalises what was already happening]
Aaaand this entire system will change completely for 2019, with the PCC taking over from the main UCI. (hence the "license's will only be valid for one year" comment, because all licenses will now expire for 2019 when the system changes)
On race participation. Yep, all WT teams must take part in all existing WT races like normal. Participation in the new WT races is voluntary. However, if a WT team is invited to a new WT race it looks like they can be fined or disciplined for turning down the invitation (although this isn't the clearest of rules).
The new events will only lose WT status if they cannot attract at least 10 WT teams for "two consecutive editions". So the new WT races will all be WT in 2018, providing they meet all safety, funding and registration needs.
And from 2019, the 'relegated' WT team gets an automatic invitation to all WT events, but that it can freely turn down.
So there's a little bit of a clean-up on what the article was talking about. New WT races do give ranking points, but won't be counted in a license dispute. New WT races will only get dropped from the calendar after the 2018 season, as long as they stay funded, safe and organised.
Don't panic. The UCI has not f*cked up at all. In fact it's layed out a lot of clarrification in the rules paving way for bigger changes in 2019.
(although my god the rules are now a bit of a mess)
Thanks TheManxMissile !
Question : What are the big changes coming in 2019 ? It is the same reform scheduled for 2017 and then ... postponed or is anything else ?
No-one knows what the changes are yet. Looks like the UCI is separating the WT License process off to the PCC, who are getting more control as a whole including a lot of general admin and registration work. That's what most of the rule changes are, paving the way for this to happen down the road.
So there won't be reforms for 2017 or 2018 (if we go off the rule changes), but a slow progression of some changes in certain situations.
Basically... some unkown stuff will happen at some unkown point
Vali wrote:
Sastre also only ever won one stage race in his career and we know which one that was.
Slightly different as Sastre finished: 8th, 6th, 2nd, 4th and 2nd in the Vuelta, and 6th in the Giro, and 10th, 9th, 8th, 3rd and 4th in the Tour. All before he won the race in '08.
Whereas Ion has yet to finish in the Top25 of a GT and only once in the Top40.
One of these riders had a big GC history and progression prior to winning. One doesn't At least Gorka has two Top40 GT finishes to his name
I know, that's why I said I agree that he won't be one of the favourites and that he also might not even do too well. (forgot to write the last bit)
My point was just that he doesn't necessarily need to win tons of stage races to be given a chance at the Tour, especially because he's already got some very impressive results in stage races the last few years. On top of that at Movistar he wasn't really allowed to ride for himself in GTs yet, as Shonak pointed out.
So I don't see why he shouldn't at least give it a go (Bahrain also got no one else for the Tour I think), even if he might fail in the end he'll at least have a bit more clarity about his 3 week recuperation.
Shrike24 wrote:
Then i'll say that the vuelta route looks really good especially with the Angliru on stage 20.
I would definitely have preferred Angliru earlier and then the medium mountain stages 17-19 afterwords - that would open the race up a bit more! But thats small things.
No-one knows what the changes are yet. Looks like the UCI is separating the WT License process off to the PCC, who are getting more control as a whole including a lot of general admin and registration work. That's what most of the rule changes are, paving the way for this to happen down the road.
So there won't be reforms for 2017 or 2018 (if we go off the rule changes), but a slow progression of some changes in certain situations.
Basically... some unkown stuff will happen at some unkown point
Shrike24 wrote:
Then i'll say that the vuelta route looks really good especially with the Angliru on stage 20.
I would definitely have preferred Angliru earlier and then the medium mountain stages 17-19 afterwords - that would open the race up a bit more! But thats small things.
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
At least Gorka has two Top40 GT finishes to his name 
