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| ringo182 |
Posted on 30-11-2016 10:35
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Classics Specialist
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Although why Danny Willett got nominated is beyond me. Won the Masters and nothing else of any significance at all. And his Ryder Cup performance was mediocre at best, scoring 0 points for the team by losing both Fourballs and his Singles.
To stay on cycling topic - Froome is such a no-personality (here you have it Ringo), that i would not also think about nomination. And he wins thanks to his team, cycling is not an individual sport. You could also nominate Poels for that win of Froome...
I seem to remember having an argument during the Olympics because I said the team at the Olympics should get the gold, not only the winner, because it's a team sport. Now you are saying exactly the same thing. I got called an idiot but no doubt everyone will now agree with Avin simply because it goes against Me/Froome/Sky.
I am not saying anything like that, that someone should be given Olympics gold because he worked for leader...you should work on your logics a bit. 
Also i would not drag your frustration about being misunderstood poster into discussion, because then the point we discuss is lost.  ]
You just said Poels could be nominated because the team won the TdF. How is that any different to me saying the team won the Olympic gold so all should be recognised?
Olympic gold medal ≠popularity contest, i wont give your more hints, because i feel like basic school teacher...
Well I need more hints because that makes no sense.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 30-11-2016 11:19
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
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ringo182 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Although why Danny Willett got nominated is beyond me. Won the Masters and nothing else of any significance at all. And his Ryder Cup performance was mediocre at best, scoring 0 points for the team by losing both Fourballs and his Singles.
To stay on cycling topic - Froome is such a no-personality (here you have it Ringo), that i would not also think about nomination. And he wins thanks to his team, cycling is not an individual sport. You could also nominate Poels for that win of Froome...
I seem to remember having an argument during the Olympics because I said the team at the Olympics should get the gold, not only the winner, because it's a team sport. Now you are saying exactly the same thing. I got called an idiot but no doubt everyone will now agree with Avin simply because it goes against Me/Froome/Sky.
I am not saying anything like that, that someone should be given Olympics gold because he worked for leader...you should work on your logics a bit.
Also i would not drag your frustration about being misunderstood poster into discussion, because then the point we discuss is lost. ]
You just said Poels could be nominated because the team won the TdF. How is that any different to me saying the team won the Olympic gold so all should be recognised?
Olympic gold medal ≠popularity contest, i wont give your more hints, because i feel like basic school teacher...
Well I need more hints because that makes no sense.
The criteria for Olympic RR gold are pretty clear, there's just one in fact, cross the finish line first. When it comes to a popularity contest to decide the favourite/most successful/most worthy British athlete of the year, there are various factors to the decision. However, Poels isn't British so Avin is wrong on that front.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 30-11-2016 11:25
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Classics Specialist
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But the TdF isn't a popularity contest either. It's the toughest sporting event in the world.
Why is one being labelled (by Avin) as a team event to try to diminish the achievements of Froome. While the other is deemed an individual event.
They are either both team events or both individual events. They are the same sport.
My point is that the winner of the TdF deserves to at least be nominated. I can't believe anyone on a cycling message board is arguing with that point.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 30-11-2016 11:35
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Tour de France Champion
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ringo182 wrote:
But the TdF isn't a popularity contest either. It's the toughest sporting event in the world.
I'd probably give the Toughest Sporting event title to something like the Marathon des Sables, or another Ultramarathon, or the Race Across America.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 30-11-2016 11:39
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
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TheManxMissile wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
But the TdF isn't a popularity contest either. It's the toughest sporting event in the world.
I'd probably give the Toughest Sporting event title to something like the Marathon des Sables, or another Ultramarathon, or the Race Across America.
Jesus F*!$ing Christ. I can't believe how pedantic people can be sometimes.
Fine, the Tour is easy and Froome or any other winner don't deserve any recognition.
End of discussion.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 30-11-2016 12:03
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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ringo182 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
But the TdF isn't a popularity contest either. It's the toughest sporting event in the world.
I'd probably give the Toughest Sporting event title to something like the Marathon des Sables, or another Ultramarathon, or the Race Across America.
Jesus F*!$ing Christ. I can't believe how pedantic people can be sometimes.
Fine, the Tour is easy and Froome or any other winner don't deserve any recognition.
End of discussion.
TMM just points out (correctly) that your way of discussing things is completely wrong if you keep making exaggerated statements.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 30-11-2016 13:04
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
But the TdF isn't a popularity contest either. It's the toughest sporting event in the world.
I'd probably give the Toughest Sporting event title to something like the Marathon des Sables, or another Ultramarathon, or the Race Across America.
Jesus F*!$ing Christ. I can't believe how pedantic people can be sometimes.
Fine, the Tour is easy and Froome or any other winner don't deserve any recognition.
End of discussion.
TMM just points out (correctly) that your way of discussing things is completely wrong if you keep making exaggerated statements.
The TdF is widely considered to be the toughest annual professional sporting event in the world so I don't think I've exaggerated too much, if at all.
Especially compared to someone saying Froome has done nothing apart from win the TdF all year when he won the Tour of Romandie, finished second at the Vuelta and won an Olympic medal. That is just as much of an exaggeration.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| jt1109 |
Posted on 30-11-2016 13:06
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Classics Specialist
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Bit harsh to ringo here guys I feel we all get what he's saying but I think it's a lot simpler an answer then popularity
It's just the law of diminishing returns once something has been done for a first time it's no longer special, wiggins won it first people went bat shit crazy froome wins 2nd time people go ohh that's awesome froome when's again ohh that's good froome wins 3rd time ohh well we always win that.
It's the reason Jason Kenny won't win the SPOTY when he's just become are greatest Olympian ever because he's just Chris hoy again to most people, Murray wins from Bale and Brownlee imo for reason already stated |
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 30-11-2016 13:09
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Classics Specialist
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ringo182 wrote:
But the TdF isn't a popularity contest either. It's the toughest sporting event in the world.
TdF isn't even the toughest cycling event |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 30-11-2016 13:13
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
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Thanks jt1109.
People are entitled to have their opinion on Froome/Sky (Which is what this boils down too as lots of people don't like him/tehm). But at the end of the day if you don't agree that the winner of the TdF in any year deserves to even be nominated for this award then you are completely undervaluing the TdF as an event.
As I've said. I can't believe that a group of cycling fans are arguing against my point that the winner of the TdF should at least be listed on the shortlist for this award, irrelevant of how many times he's won it before. I don't know where most people are from, but if your countries had similar awards and someone from you country won the TdF that year, would you not expect them to at least be on the shortlist? Would you not question the shortlist nomination policy if they weren't?
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 30-11-2016 13:14
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
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And I get criticised for exaggerating
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 30-11-2016 13:16
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
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ringo182 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
But the TdF isn't a popularity contest either. It's the toughest sporting event in the world.
I'd probably give the Toughest Sporting event title to something like the Marathon des Sables, or another Ultramarathon, or the Race Across America.
Jesus F*!$ing Christ. I can't believe how pedantic people can be sometimes.
Fine, the Tour is easy and Froome or any other winner don't deserve any recognition.
End of discussion.
TMM just points out (correctly) that your way of discussing things is completely wrong if you keep making exaggerated statements.
The TdF is widely considered to be the toughest annual professional sporting event in the world so I don't think I've exaggerated too much, if at all.
Especially compared to someone saying Froome has done nothing apart from win the TdF all year when he won the Tour of Romandie, finished second at the Vuelta and won an Olympic medal. That is just as much of an exaggeration.
Ok, give me a few sources to back up that statement about the toughest sporting even then. In the last decade, I would say the Giro was a much tougher race, and I'm not saying anything about other sports yet.
Compared to Wiggins 2012, I would definitely say Dauphiné (not Romandie) and some podium places as "close to nothing" for a rider with Froome's potential. If you want to compare, Quintana also won a GT, but also won 3 other WT stage races. And then there's riders like Sagan or Van Avermaet who had even better seasons.
So in conclusion, Froome won le Tour. That's it. Don't make it sound like he did something extraordinary this year.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 30-11-2016 13:19
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World Champion
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ringo182 wrote:
People are entitled to have their opinion on Froome/Sky (Which is what this boils down too as lots of people don't like him/tehm).
Dude, seriously? YOU are blaming others about having a biased opinion about Froome/Sky? Are you sure you want to continue this discussion while people are still taking you more serious then Arberg?
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 30-11-2016 13:22
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
But the TdF isn't a popularity contest either. It's the toughest sporting event in the world.
I'd probably give the Toughest Sporting event title to something like the Marathon des Sables, or another Ultramarathon, or the Race Across America.
Jesus F*!$ing Christ. I can't believe how pedantic people can be sometimes.
Fine, the Tour is easy and Froome or any other winner don't deserve any recognition.
End of discussion.
TMM just points out (correctly) that your way of discussing things is completely wrong if you keep making exaggerated statements.
The TdF is widely considered to be the toughest annual professional sporting event in the world so I don't think I've exaggerated too much, if at all.
Especially compared to someone saying Froome has done nothing apart from win the TdF all year when he won the Tour of Romandie, finished second at the Vuelta and won an Olympic medal. That is just as much of an exaggeration.
Ok, give me a few sources to back up that statement about the toughest sporting even then. In the last decade, I would say the Giro was a much tougher race, and I'm not saying anything about other sports yet.
Compared to Wiggins 2012, I would definitely say Dauphiné (not Romandie) and some podium places as "close to nothing" for a rider with Froome's potential. If you want to compare, Quintana also won a GT, but also won 3 other WT stage races. And then there's riders like Sagan or Van Avermaet who had even better seasons.
So in conclusion, Froome won le Tour. That's it. Don't make it sound like he did something extraordinary this year.
Not British though so can't be nominated unfortunately.
So you're saying that the line-ups at the Giro are better than at the Tour? The route doesn't make a race hard, the riders do. Take this years Giro. Great route and an exciting race, but with the exeption of Nibali on top form none of the other Giro GC riders would get into the TdF top 5 or so.
So basically you're saying winning the Tour is not an achievement in the sport?
Edited by ringo182 on 30-11-2016 13:23
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 30-11-2016 13:23
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
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Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
People are entitled to have their opinion on Froome/Sky (Which is what this boils down too as lots of people don't like him/tehm).
Dude, seriously? YOU are blaming others about having a biased opinion about Froome/Sky? Are you sure you want to continue this discussion while people are still taking you more serious then Arberg?
Are you seriously saying the winner of the TdF shouldn't be nominated? Would you honestly be arguing this point if it was about anyone other than Froome?
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 30-11-2016 13:23
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World Champion
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ringo182 wrote:
So basically you're saying winning the Tour is not an achievement in the sport?
Wow.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 30-11-2016 13:25
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
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I quote you " Froome won le Tour. That's it."
What did you mean by that statement if you aren't saying winning the Tour is nothing?
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 30-11-2016 13:29
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World Champion
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Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
People are entitled to have their opinion on Froome/Sky (Which is what this boils down too as lots of people don't like him/tehm).
Dude, seriously? YOU are blaming others about having a biased opinion about Froome/Sky? Are you sure you want to continue this discussion while people are still taking you more serious then Arberg?
THAT is exaggerating. 
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 30-11-2016 13:39
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
People are entitled to have their opinion on Froome/Sky (Which is what this boils down too as lots of people don't like him/tehm).
Dude, seriously? YOU are blaming others about having a biased opinion about Froome/Sky? Are you sure you want to continue this discussion while people are still taking you more serious then Arberg?
THAT is exaggerating.
And you've been reduced to trying to mock me when you can't properly continue your debate. Well played sir. I salute you.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 30-11-2016 13:41
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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ringo182 wrote:
I quote you " Froome won le Tour. That's it."
What did you mean by that statement if you aren't saying winning the Tour is nothing?
Ok, I'm going to assume you just misunderstood me then.
Froome won le Tour, but it's nothing extraordinary. He's the best stage racer at the moment, combining climbing skills with a very good time trial and a superb team behind him. Unlike Wiggins 2012 though, he did not achieve much else. Wiggins won every race he targetted that year. That was special.
But Froome was in my eyes not even the best cyclist this year. Sagan, Van Avermaet and Van Aert all had better seasons, and I don't really follow mountainbike or track, so there's like maybe 5 better cyclists then Froome this year. It's hard to get nominated then.
I don't know who else got nominated, but I'm sure Murray would be nominated. Murray had a great year, winning Wimbledon, the Olympics and the Masters. now that is something special!
As jt1109 said, we're all understanding the point you're trying to make, but we have a problem with a) your way of debating and b) your inability to admit when you're wrong.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
