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Vuelta á Espana 2016
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| Shonak |
Posted on 07-09-2016 08:37
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Tour de France Champion
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Brilliant: a former TdF winner running up a hill of Tour of Britain, we've seen it all now. This is what track cycling will do to you, kids. 
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 07-09-2016 08:41
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Classics Specialist
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Shonak wrote:
You do understand that for Contador and Froome these are entirely different circumstances, right?
Why?
They've both said that the riders should have been kicked out. They've both said the same thing yet one is being labelled a liar and a cheat and the other's comments have been looked over and barely mentioned.
All I'm saying is everyone is very quick to jump down Froome's throat when he is only saying the exact same thing as another rider. He literally can't win because if he said the right decision has been made then everyone would be in uproar. If he didn't say anything then he would be in hiding.
I've no doubt he said what he said as a PR stunt. But you can't treat two riders who say exactly the same thing so completely differently. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 07-09-2016 08:49
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Shonak wrote:
Brilliant: a former TdF winner running up a hill of Tour of Britain, we've seen it all now. This is what track cycling will do to you, kids.
I wouldn't be surprised if he did it just to wind up Froome. He probably could have ridden up the hill but he couldn't resist the photo opportunity 
I doubt there are many hills in Britain that a pro-cyclist, no matter how out of shape, couldn't get up. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 07-09-2016 08:50
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World Champion
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ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
You do understand that for Contador and Froome these are entirely different circumstances, right?
Why?
They've both said that the riders should have been kicked out. They've both said the same thing yet one is being labelled a liar and a cheat and the other's comments have been looked over and barely mentioned.
All I'm saying is everyone is very quick to jump down Froome's throat when he is only saying the exact same thing as another rider. He literally can't win because if he said the right decision has been made then everyone would be in uproar. If he didn't say anything then he would be in hiding.
I've no doubt he said what he said as a PR stunt. But you can't treat two riders who say exactly the same thing so completely differently.
Wait, really? If you dont understand their different positions, there is no point in discussing it further.
If Contador should lost whole team like Froome and said this, i would also call him liar...but that is not the case, as six Tinkoff riders still would be in the race, of course he wants others kicked, why he would not, why he should lie? 
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 07-09-2016 08:54
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| Shonak |
Posted on 07-09-2016 08:50
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Because the decision helps Froome a lot but it hurts Contador's ambitions, thus it's logical that Contador is for kicking them out and he is not being hypocritical about it because he would profit from the decision immensely and everybody understands that. Froome doesn't profit, it actually would hurt him A LOT, like literally it would kick him permanetly out of competition, and thus it is unlikely to reflect his opinion. Now saying something later about how they could have done it is pretty PR. Come on, think about it, the guy has suggested in the article that he would ride completely alone for the last week of a GT, that's actually really the dumbest thing to demand such a thing. It'd be suicidal.
(Actually, I don't blame him for it, he likes to be perceived as a racer, all good. Just saying you can't compare the positions of Contador and Froome at all and such statements matter little now when a decision has been made and a day has passed)
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 07-09-2016 09:14
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Classics Specialist
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I get your point.
But my point is that if any other rider in the same position had said the same thing he wouldn't be called a liar and a cheat.
It's pointless discussing as it's a difference of opinion. I'm just pointing out the fact that Froome/Sky didn't make the decision not to kick out the riders but for some reason it's their fault and they are liars and cheats because of the decision made by the organisers.
I get that people don't like Froome, he's not a very charismatic rider/individual. But dislike him for stuff he actually does, not stuff that is actually nothing to do with him. |
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 07-09-2016 09:26
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World Champion
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Shonak wrote:
Brilliant: a former TdF winner running up a hill of Tour of Britain, we've seen it all now. This is what track cycling will do to you, kids.
Marginal losses kids. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 07-09-2016 09:39
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Froome needs to do something drastic today to keep the title race going. No doubt Quintana will just mark him out of the race. Don't think Froome will have the legs to make any significant gains.
Contador to go backwards again on the final climb. Chaves could be the one to take advantage while Froome and Quintana watch each other. |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 07-09-2016 09:55
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Team Leader
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ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
You do understand that for Contador and Froome these are entirely different circumstances, right?
Why?
They've both said that the riders should have been kicked out. They've both said the same thing yet one is being labelled a liar and a cheat and the other's comments have been looked over and barely mentioned.
All I'm saying is everyone is very quick to jump down Froome's throat when he is only saying the exact same thing as another rider. He literally can't win because if he said the right decision has been made then everyone would be in uproar. If he didn't say anything then he would be in hiding.
I've no doubt he said what he said as a PR stunt. But you can't treat two riders who say exactly the same thing so completely differently.
That not entirely true, if he had said nothing then I doubt we would be discussing what Froome's thoughts are on the subject, I really couldn't care less what Contador has to say on it either as he has a history of talking rubbish. I praised what riders like Moser, De Gendt and Bakelants said as they said it just after the decision came in and it was ballsy of them to step up and say it.
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| Choklets |
Posted on 07-09-2016 09:59
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Will Froome do a Floyd Landis today?!
The french don't specially dislike Froome. They simply dislike everything british.
Or german, or non french.
And you gotta say that Froome is not very sympathic. He got no charisma.
On press conferences he hides behind Brailsstrong. Like he has no character.
He never says anything that doesn't sound like rehearsed blah blah.
And about his statement that he allegedly would've condoned having the OOT riders removed. That's a classical case of talk is cheap. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 07-09-2016 10:57
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No
If he does then Quintana and Movistar should just give up. The 50k leading the the final climb is too easy for anything to happen and the final climb isn't really long enough for significant gaps to open up. The Vuelta seems to like these flat stages with a climb at the end. |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 07-09-2016 11:35
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Team Leader
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Choklets wrote:
Will Froome do a Floyd Landis today?!
The french don't specially dislike Froome. They simply dislike everything british.
Or german, or non french.
And you gotta say that Froome is not very sympathic. He got no charisma.
On press conferences he hides behind Brailsstrong. Like he has no character.
He never says anything that doesn't sound like rehearsed blah blah.
And about his statement that he allegedly would've condoned having the OOT riders removed. That's a classical case of talk is cheap.
And Froome is another one of the unbelievable miracle stories who came from nothing to GT champion and we know how these stories usually play out, I can understand why people don't like Froome. To me he is just another in the chorus of dodgy athletes who continue to make the sports the participate in a joke.
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| Choklets |
Posted on 07-09-2016 12:47
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 318
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And Froome is another one of the unbelievable miracle stories who came from nothing to GT champion and we know how these stories usually play out, I can understand why people don't like Froome. To me he is just another in the chorus of dodgy athletes who continue to make the sports the participate in a joke.
Yes, that too of course.  |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 07-09-2016 13:45
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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TVG is out of Vuelta and has abandoned. Funny, two days ago I read an interview that he was excited to go stage hunting (never got in a break) and was appreciating his work as a domestique to carry bottles for Samu. He described it something along the lines of a learning experience that will make him a better rider?
And now he goes zack-boom and abandons again a race. If there is one guy in the bunch who is overpaid it surely is TVG, amiright?
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 07-09-2016 13:56
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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Shonak wrote:
TVG is out of Vuelta and has abandoned. Funny, two days ago I read an interview that he was excited to go stage hunting (never got in a break) and was appreciating his work as a domestique to carry bottles for Samu. He described it something along the lines of a learning experience that will make him a better rider?
And now he goes zack-boom and abandons again a race. If there is one guy in the bunch who is overpaid it surely is TVG, amiright?
He's never won a stage race outside America so for him to think he's got any chance at a Grand Tour is pretty laughable.
He's probably a victim of the weakness of American cycling at the moment. He's the best they have so gets talked up and automatically gets a place as a leader of the one big American team. It's like the England football team. They are crap but the pressure is on them to win.
If he was European he would be an average mountain domestique. |
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| Selwink |
Posted on 07-09-2016 13:59
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8856
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Break of the day
 Pello Bilbao *
 Dario Cataldo
 Clément Chevrier
 Magnus Cort *
 Bart De Clercq *
 Silvan Dillier *
 Axel Domont
 Kristijan Durasek
 Imanol Erviti
Matthias Frank *
Simon Gerrans *
 Robert Gesink *
 Michael Gogl
 Michal Golas *
José Herrada *
 Pavel Kochetkov
Leopold König *
 Matthieu Ladagnous *
 Christoph Pfingsten
 Perrig Quemeneur *
Jaime Rosón
 Stéphane Rossetto *
 Kristian Sbaragli *
Bram Tankink *
Scott Thwaites *
Marcel Wyss
 Haimar Zubeldia
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| Selwink |
Posted on 07-09-2016 14:01
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8856
Joined: 17-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
TVG is out of Vuelta and has abandoned. Funny, two days ago I read an interview that he was excited to go stage hunting (never got in a break) and was appreciating his work as a domestique to carry bottles for Samu. He described it something along the lines of a learning experience that will make him a better rider?
And now he goes zack-boom and abandons again a race. If there is one guy in the bunch who is overpaid it surely is TVG, amiright?
He's never won a stage race outside America so for him to think he's got any chance at a Grand Tour is pretty laughable.
He's probably a victim of the weakness of American cycling at the moment. He's the best they have so gets talked up and automatically gets a place as a leader of the one big American team. It's like the England football team. They are crap but the pressure is on them to win.
If he was European he would be an average mountain domestique.
Because an average mountain domestique would be able to ride top 5 in the Tour, win up the Rettenbachferner, come second in the Dauphiné and hold a Tour podium spot only to drop out due to illness?
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 07-09-2016 14:10
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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Selwink wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
TVG is out of Vuelta and has abandoned. Funny, two days ago I read an interview that he was excited to go stage hunting (never got in a break) and was appreciating his work as a domestique to carry bottles for Samu. He described it something along the lines of a learning experience that will make him a better rider?
And now he goes zack-boom and abandons again a race. If there is one guy in the bunch who is overpaid it surely is TVG, amiright?
He's never won a stage race outside America so for him to think he's got any chance at a Grand Tour is pretty laughable.
He's probably a victim of the weakness of American cycling at the moment. He's the best they have so gets talked up and automatically gets a place as a leader of the one big American team. It's like the England football team. They are crap but the pressure is on them to win.
If he was European he would be an average mountain domestique.
Because an average mountain domestique would be able to ride top 5 in the Tour, win up the Rettenbachferner, come second in the Dauphiné and hold a Tour podium spot only to drop out due to illness?
OK, Maybe he would be a good mountain domestique
He's 28 and his entire palmares outside of America amounts to a few individual stage wins. Any decent rider can win a one off stage if his form is good and the race pans out in his favour.
A top 5 grand tour finish doesn't really mean anything. It's relative to the competition in any given year. Jean Cristophe Peraud finished 2nd but who's he in the grand scheme of things? |
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| Selwink |
Posted on 07-09-2016 14:13
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8856
Joined: 17-05-2012
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ringo182 wrote:
Selwink wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
TVG is out of Vuelta and has abandoned. Funny, two days ago I read an interview that he was excited to go stage hunting (never got in a break) and was appreciating his work as a domestique to carry bottles for Samu. He described it something along the lines of a learning experience that will make him a better rider?
And now he goes zack-boom and abandons again a race. If there is one guy in the bunch who is overpaid it surely is TVG, amiright?
He's never won a stage race outside America so for him to think he's got any chance at a Grand Tour is pretty laughable.
He's probably a victim of the weakness of American cycling at the moment. He's the best they have so gets talked up and automatically gets a place as a leader of the one big American team. It's like the England football team. They are crap but the pressure is on them to win.
If he was European he would be an average mountain domestique.
Because an average mountain domestique would be able to ride top 5 in the Tour, win up the Rettenbachferner, come second in the Dauphiné and hold a Tour podium spot only to drop out due to illness?
A top 5 grand tour finish doesn't really mean anything. It's relative to the competition in any given year. Jean Cristophe Peraud finished 2nd but who's he in the grand scheme of things?
That's a fair point, 2012 TdF was indeed relatively weak. However, his Tour podium standing last year was ahead of Valverde, Nibali and Contador among others. Didn't need a break or even a long TT, he was really climbing that good. I think that should justify a role better than domestique (maybe at Sky or so it would be final domestique) and I think he would definitely be a leader in the mountains in at least 12+ WT teams.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 07-09-2016 14:16
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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Selwink wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Selwink wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
TVG is out of Vuelta and has abandoned. Funny, two days ago I read an interview that he was excited to go stage hunting (never got in a break) and was appreciating his work as a domestique to carry bottles for Samu. He described it something along the lines of a learning experience that will make him a better rider?
And now he goes zack-boom and abandons again a race. If there is one guy in the bunch who is overpaid it surely is TVG, amiright?
He's never won a stage race outside America so for him to think he's got any chance at a Grand Tour is pretty laughable.
He's probably a victim of the weakness of American cycling at the moment. He's the best they have so gets talked up and automatically gets a place as a leader of the one big American team. It's like the England football team. They are crap but the pressure is on them to win.
If he was European he would be an average mountain domestique.
Because an average mountain domestique would be able to ride top 5 in the Tour, win up the Rettenbachferner, come second in the Dauphiné and hold a Tour podium spot only to drop out due to illness?
A top 5 grand tour finish doesn't really mean anything. It's relative to the competition in any given year. Jean Cristophe Peraud finished 2nd but who's he in the grand scheme of things?
That's a fair point, 2012 TdF was indeed relatively weak.
Well Wiggins won which tells you all you need to know |
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